Manning Greatest of all time by Ross Tucker

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
He's definitely the best QB I've ever seen.

The playoff record argument is silly. To compare the level of talent that the Colts have to the level of talent that those Niner teams had is completely disingenuous. Manning was absolutely phenomenal yesterday, but the Saints did a great job of keeping him off of the field for almost two consecutive quarters.

Yup. Tell me one key player that the Colts have gotten thru free agency? Gary Brackett and after that it's pretty much crickets. Indy's done a better job than anyone else at finding players that fit their offensive and defensive schemes, but pound for pound they're not as talented as people give them credit for.

Peyton will never be as clutch as Montana and nobody else will for that matter, but if he can rack up 3 Super Bowl wins and rack up every single passing stat known to man than he's made his case. We won't know that until he's finished.

3 of the Colt's 5 starting OL were acquired in free agency. They weren't big names when they hit the market, but I'm not sure what point you were trying to make so I'll point that out. I do think Joe's niner teams were more talented (particularly on defense) fwiw.

And I also agree that this is really a poor conversation to have until Manning hangs up his cleats. Joe never lost the SB on an interception, but Peyton could still accomplish a lot of things that Joe never did.

Originally posted by TonyStarks:
Peyton needs to calm down when he isn't on the field. He was going crazy , walking back and forth on the sidelines when the Saints ran up the T.O.P.

Waynes' alligator arms didn't help either.

Did anyone else notice his face was turning red? He was in obvious melt down mode, something that would have never happened to Joe Cool.

Originally posted by Legbreaker:
My reply:

Ross...you are dead wrong. Even if Peyton won yesterday...you would still be dead wrong. Joe Montana is the greatest ever, and it isn't close. No conversation, caveat, or argument necessary.

Your stated, "He did, however, play in an era before the advent of free agency and the salary cap. That's not his fault, of course, but it does help explain why he accomplished what he did, benefiting from immensely talented rosters that other teams couldn't raid."

Your statement is fallacious. It implies that Joe had a core of talent that powered the Niners through a brief period of success. What you should have done is taken a look at the rosters of the 49ers for Super Bowls 16, 19, 23, and 24. What you would have found is that the Niners experienced a dramatic amount of turnover in each of these seasons, and that Joe, unlike Tom or Peyton, was absolutely perfect on the games biggest stage. He's thrown 11 TDs against 0 interceptions. He completed 68% of his passes, and has a collective passer rating of 127.8 in the Super Bowl.

The man is a once in a century kind of player. He is the very best Modern Era QB...and it isn't close. To suggest otherwise is utterly ridiculous.

I dont think there is any question whatsoever that Joe Montana is the greatest Superbowl quarterback of all time. His stats in his 4 games speak for themselves.

However, I just dont think you can take 4 games to totally make your point about the GOAT. It certainly is a huge part but you also have to consider the regular season and the other playoff games in my opinion. I agree that Joe still holds the GOAT but it isnt SO great that making an argument for someone else is ridiculous.

Here are a few interesting facts on Joe in the playoffs outside of the SBs. He threw more than an interception per game. (21 picks in 19 games). He threw 3 interceptions in the NFC title game against the Cowboys. In the 84 SB year he threw 5 picks in the 2 playoff games before the SB. In the 85-86-87 years in which the Niners lost 3 first round games his QB ratings were 65.6, 34.2, and 42.

Montana was Godlike in the 88 and 89 playoffs throughout. However, his performance in other years was spotty. Just trying to present all of the facts here.

Originally posted by Legbreaker:
I don't know, Pete. I will say that Peyton is the best QB in the league, even after yesterday's loss, but he was really ineffective in the 2nd half. His players had some drops...but there were more than a few times where he was late with the football, and a few times that he tried to force a good pass into a really bad spot.

I would also take issue with comparing the Colts to the Niners. The Niners experienced a massive amount of turnover from Super Bowl to Super Bowl...more than most teams of their era. Walsh was constantly looking for newer, better players, and had no qualms bouncing a guy that was falling off. Just look at the rosters from year to year, and you'll see what I mean.

I watched every single Super Bowl, and I remember them all. Joe was head and shoulders above anyone when it mattered

All time, if there was one player that I could pick to lead the most important drive of a season, I'm picking Joe. I firmly believe that about 90% of NFL fans would pick him, too.

First of all, let me concede that I was very young when Montana was in his prime. So take my opinion on this with that in mind.

That being said, the second Cincy SB comes to mind. We're down 13-6 at the beginning of the 4th. Montana throws a pass RIGHT TO Billups, who drops an easy INT. Montana hits Rice for the game-tying TD on the very next play.

The only reason we're even in that game is because our defense held a Boomer Esiason (NFL MVP) led offense to six points up until then (they had that kickoff return for the TD that accounted for their TD).

Without a great defensive performance and a bit of luck on the Billups play, we probably don't have The Drive or a great story about John Candy. A guy like Manning isn't afforded the luxury of a "good" game, or even a "good" half. He isn't afforded the luxury of having a RB that the defense has to pay much attention. He doesn't have the luxury of a defense that can shut good teams down. Yesterday, the Saints only had 3 possessions that they didn't score on.

In terms of roster turnover, while we did have that...it was almost always for the better. We had incredible depth on our roster, thanks to Walsh & Eddie D. We had teams where guys like Jim Burt, Mike Sherrard, Tim Mckyer, Bill Romanowski, Steve Wallace, Steve Young, & Wesley Walls were coming off of our bench...and that's just names off of our 1989 team. So while we did have roster turnover, the starters and depth were greatly improved as a result.

Anyway...if I have one drive that my life depends on, I'm picking Montana too. I just think that a QB's value extends beyond that, and I think that our memories have a way of skimming over what we don't want to remember, (Vikings & Giants blowouts come to mind) and in Montana's case...I don't think that his supporting cast is given enough credit.

Ross Tucker jumped the gun with this article, assuming Manning and the Colts had this game in the bag. I bet he's feeling like an idiot about now.

Manning may very well go down as the greatest ever, but it's way too early to anoint him that title, and that pick 6 in the most crucial of moments isn't going to help his case any.

You need a TD and you got 90 - 120 seconds to drive down the field and your life depends on it. You are picking Montana over Manning every time.

Quote:
Why Manning is a better NFL quarterback than Montana, Brady

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/ross_tucker/02/02/peyton.manning/index.html#ixzz0ezjTRo04
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Because you wrote this on February 3rd, and neither Montana nor Brady was scheduled to play that weekend and you needed something to write about

Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
You need a TD and you got 90 - 120 seconds to drive down the field and your life depends on it. You are picking Montana over Manning every time.

That is certainly debatable and not the absolute you make it out to be. Probably the QB with the best history of last minute heroics is John Elway. I know that he has by far the most 4th quarter comebacks anyway. (47 vs 32 for Joe). I wouldnt be upset having Montana, Elway, Manning, or Brady with the ball in their hands at the end.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
You need a TD and you got 90 - 120 seconds to drive down the field and your life depends on it. You are picking Montana over Manning every time.

That is certainly debatable and not the absolute you make it out to be. Probably the QB with the best history of last minute heroics is John Elway. I know that he has by far the most 4th quarter comebacks anyway. (47 vs 32 for Joe). I wouldnt be upset having Montana, Elway, Manning, or Brady with the ball in their hands at the end.

Im taking Montana, that MNF game when Montana was with the Chiefs and beat Elway on a last minute drive proved to me I would take Montana over Elway. I dunno, my 49er glasses are on. Montana is God. I'm taking Montana over anyone in pretty much any situation

Originally posted by Kalen49ers:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
You need a TD and you got 90 - 120 seconds to drive down the field and your life depends on it. You are picking Montana over Manning every time.

That is certainly debatable and not the absolute you make it out to be. Probably the QB with the best history of last minute heroics is John Elway. I know that he has by far the most 4th quarter comebacks anyway. (47 vs 32 for Joe). I wouldnt be upset having Montana, Elway, Manning, or Brady with the ball in their hands at the end.

Im taking Montana, that MNF game when Montana was with the Chiefs and beat Elway on a last minute drive proved to me I would take Montana over Elway. I dunno, my 49er glasses are on. Montana is God. I'm taking Montana over anyone in pretty much any situation

Anyone who doesn't pick Montana does not have a good imagination. Because clearly they are not really believing their life is on the line. If you want as little doubt as possible, Joe Cool is your man.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
He's definitely the best QB I've ever seen.

The playoff record argument is silly. To compare the level of talent that the Colts have to the level of talent that those Niner teams had is completely disingenuous. Manning was absolutely phenomenal yesterday, but the Saints did a great job of keeping him off of the field for almost two consecutive quarters.

I don't agree. What kind of great talent did Montana play with during his 1st superbowl and 2nd superbowl (pre - Rice & Taylor)? Please don't say Dwight Clark was a great talent.

Originally posted by Kalen49ers:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
You need a TD and you got 90 - 120 seconds to drive down the field and your life depends on it. You are picking Montana over Manning every time.

That is certainly debatable and not the absolute you make it out to be. Probably the QB with the best history of last minute heroics is John Elway. I know that he has by far the most 4th quarter comebacks anyway. (47 vs 32 for Joe). I wouldnt be upset having Montana, Elway, Manning, or Brady with the ball in their hands at the end.

Im taking Montana, that MNF game when Montana was with the Chiefs and beat Elway on a last minute drive proved to me I would take Montana over Elway. I dunno, my 49er glasses are on. Montana is God. I'm taking Montana over anyone in pretty much any situation

LOL You are 22 years old and were in diapers when the Niners won Superbowls with Montana. I just find it funny that you make such blanket statements that Joe is absolutley the guy who is the best at last minute comebacks when you cant remember a game he played as a Niner. I think Montana was great but I also recognize that guys like Brady, Manning, and especially Elway were every bit as good at last quarter comebacks.

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
He's definitely the best QB I've ever seen.

The playoff record argument is silly. To compare the level of talent that the Colts have to the level of talent that those Niner teams had is completely disingenuous. Manning was absolutely phenomenal yesterday, but the Saints did a great job of keeping him off of the field for almost two consecutive quarters.

I don't agree. What kind of great talent did Montana play with during his 1st superbowl and 2nd superbowl (pre - Rice & Taylor)? Please don't say Dwight Clark was a great talent.

I agree that the 81 team was pretty much Montana and little else. However, the 84 team had Wendell Tyler and Roger Craig in the backfield and had Russ Francis at TE. He also had an offensive line that protected him well.

The biggest thing that Joe Montana had was .......... an incredible offensive genius named Bill Walsh. He was worth more than any one player on the field.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Kalen49ers:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
You need a TD and you got 90 - 120 seconds to drive down the field and your life depends on it. You are picking Montana over Manning every time.

That is certainly debatable and not the absolute you make it out to be. Probably the QB with the best history of last minute heroics is John Elway. I know that he has by far the most 4th quarter comebacks anyway. (47 vs 32 for Joe). I wouldnt be upset having Montana, Elway, Manning, or Brady with the ball in their hands at the end.

Im taking Montana, that MNF game when Montana was with the Chiefs and beat Elway on a last minute drive proved to me I would take Montana over Elway. I dunno, my 49er glasses are on. Montana is God. I'm taking Montana over anyone in pretty much any situation

LOL You are 22 years old and were in diapers when the Niners won Superbowls with Montana. I just find it funny that you make such blanket statements that Joe is absolutley the guy who is the best at last minute comebacks when you cant remember a game he played as a Niner. I think Montana was great but I also recognize that guys like Brady, Manning, and especially Elway were every bit as good at last quarter comebacks.

Thank God for the invention of the video tape then huh?

Originally posted by Kalen49ers:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Kalen49ers:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
You need a TD and you got 90 - 120 seconds to drive down the field and your life depends on it. You are picking Montana over Manning every time.

That is certainly debatable and not the absolute you make it out to be. Probably the QB with the best history of last minute heroics is John Elway. I know that he has by far the most 4th quarter comebacks anyway. (47 vs 32 for Joe). I wouldnt be upset having Montana, Elway, Manning, or Brady with the ball in their hands at the end.

Im taking Montana, that MNF game when Montana was with the Chiefs and beat Elway on a last minute drive proved to me I would take Montana over Elway. I dunno, my 49er glasses are on. Montana is God. I'm taking Montana over anyone in pretty much any situation

LOL You are 22 years old and were in diapers when the Niners won Superbowls with Montana. I just find it funny that you make such blanket statements that Joe is absolutley the guy who is the best at last minute comebacks when you cant remember a game he played as a Niner. I think Montana was great but I also recognize that guys like Brady, Manning, and especially Elway were every bit as good at last quarter comebacks.

Thank God for the invention of the video tape then huh?

I'm sure there is video tape of all the Niners games and comebacks during that era that you have studied. I also am sure that you did the same for John Elway.

I am not debating that Montana was great in Superbowls ( well he wasnt really all that special in SB 16 to tell you the truth) but only that he is not CLEARLY the best comeback QB of all time. He is one of them.

You may not remember but in SB 23 he almost blew the game by making a horrible throw in the endzone that was right in the hands of Billups. If that pick is made the Niners dont win that game.

Joe is my all time favorite QB. I just recognize that there are others who were equally amazing with the ball in their hands at the end of a game.