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49ers on the clock, what would you do?

INTERNET FIGHT
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Cool it with your know it all attitude. You asked who ranked Trufant higher and I told you. NFL Draftscout is actually one of the better sites. Mayock ( who we both know knows more than either of us had them ranked 3-4 BEFORE the combine. We will see if his rankings change now.

Once again, its another situation where a guy is being ranked more on the basis of his recent workouts than anything else. As much as people like Mayock may have credibility, they also f**k up quite a lot too, same with NFL pro scouts, otherwise Dontari Poe would have never been a 1st rounder and we would never see draft time busts. One of the reasons it happens is because people jump on the bandwagon and get too excited about timed speeds.


Downgrading Banks because he had one bad workout after years of excellence is pretty ridiculous to me. I see him up there with Milliner as the top cornerbacks in this draft. If teams are stupid enough to let him fall because of the perception of his "lack of speed", then so be it, it'll just be another example talked about in future years about why way too much credence is given to Combine results and offseason workouts.


At the end of the college season, if you said you wanted Trufant over Banks, people would have looked at you like you were nuts, one guy was a Top 10/15 player, the other was an early 3rd round pick. Now because Banks was injured and didn't get to be at the Senior Bowl, and because he had one lousy workout, he gets downgraded all the way to the bottom of the 1st? That's just nuts.


You seem like you're always doing this appeal to authority...."well the pro scouts think this so you're wrong", just like "well all these people say that the 49ers won't get anything better than a 4th rounder for Alex Smith, so you're wrong"....etc. If this was actually true, you wouldn't see draft-time busts happen, you wouldn't seem guys get hyped up because how great they looked in shorts and sneakers. Tom Brady wouldn't be a 6th round pick while JaMarcus Russell was the #1 pick in the draft, and on and on and on. A lot of times, common sense is the best tool you can possibly have.

I've always felt that offseason workouts/Combine workouts should never ever override what's already there, what a guy has accomplished out on the field in actual games. And in a perfect world it wouldn't, but every offseason, people jump on the hype wagon and ride it until the wheels fall off. Obviously these guys have to be wrong a considerable amount of time. I'm not saying I know better, I'm just saying that on the football field, Johnthan Banks is a better football player than Desmond Trufant.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Mar 1, 2013 at 1:37 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Cool it with your know it all attitude. You asked who ranked Trufant higher and I told you. NFL Draftscout is actually one of the better sites. Mayock ( who we both know knows more than either of us had them ranked 3-4 BEFORE the combine. We will see if his rankings change now.

Once again, its another situation where a guy is being ranked more on the basis of his recent workouts than anything else. As much as people like Mayock may have credibility, they also f**k up quite a lot too, same with NFL pro scouts, otherwise Dontari Poe would have never been a 1st rounder and we would never see draft time busts. One of the reasons it happens is because people jump on the bandwagon and get too excited about timed speeds.


Downgrading Banks because he had one bad workout after years of excellence is pretty ridiculous to me. I see him up there with Milliner as the top cornerbacks in this draft. If teams are stupid enough to let him fall because of the perception of his "lack of speed", then so be it, it'll just be another example talked about in future years about why way too much credence is given to Combine results and offseason workouts.


At the end of the college season, if you said you wanted Trufant over Banks, people would have looked at you like you were nuts, one guy was a Top 10/15 player, the other was an early 3rd round pick. Now because Banks was injured and didn't get to be at the Senior Bowl, and because he had one lousy workout, he gets downgraded all the way to the bottom of the 1st? That's just nuts.

No offense but I would guarantee Mayock knows more than you do. Sure they can screw up but I promise you would too. I am NOT saying that Banks isnt very good. I think Trufant has the better speed and showed he was stronger by benching 225 16 times compared to just 10 for the bigger Banks. I would actually be happy with either.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Once again, its another situation where a guy is being ranked more on the basis of his recent workouts than anything else. As much as people like Mayock may have credibility, they also f**k up quite a lot too, same with NFL pro scouts, otherwise Dontari Poe would have never been a 1st rounder and we would never see draft time busts. One of the reasons it happens is because people jump on the bandwagon and get too excited about timed speeds.


Downgrading Banks because he had one bad workout after years of excellence is pretty ridiculous to me. I see him up there with Milliner as the top cornerbacks in this draft. If teams are stupid enough to let him fall because of the perception of his "lack of speed", then so be it, it'll just be another example talked about in future years about why way too much credence is given to Combine results and offseason workouts.


At the end of the college season, if you said you wanted Trufant over Banks, people would have looked at you like you were nuts, one guy was a Top 10/15 player, the other was an early 3rd round pick. Now because Banks was injured and didn't get to be at the Senior Bowl, and because he had one lousy workout, he gets downgraded all the way to the bottom of the 1st? That's just nuts.


You seem like you're always doing this appeal to authority...."well the pro scouts think this so you're wrong", just like "well all these people say that the 49ers won't get anything better than a 4th rounder for Alex Smith, so you're wrong"....etc. If this was actually true, you wouldn't see draft-time busts happen, you wouldn't seem guys get hyped up because how great they looked in shorts and sneakers. Tom Brady wouldn't be a 6th round pick while JaMarcus Russell was the #1 pick in the draft, and on and on and on. A lot of times, common sense is the best tool you can possibly have.

I've always felt that offseason workouts/Combine workouts should never ever override what's already there, what a guy has accomplished out on the field in actual games. And in a perfect world it wouldn't, but every offseason, people jump on the hype wagon and ride it until the wheels fall off. Obviously these guys have to be wrong a considerable amount of time. I'm not saying I know better, I'm just saying that on the football field, Johnthan Banks is a better football player than Desmond Trufant.

That is simply hillarious coming from you. You really need to go back and read your posts. As far as Alex goes, in my mock I had him going to KC for a 3rd rd pick. Just like you, I didnt see the Niners getting a 2nd.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
No offense but I would guarantee Mayock knows more than you do. Sure they can screw up but I promise you would too. I am NOT saying that Banks isnt very good. I think Trufant has the better speed and showed he was stronger by benching 225 16 times compared to just 10 for the bigger Banks. I would actually be happy with either.


Banks....#13......going up against one of the top QB's and the top WR in this draft.


[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Mar 1, 2013 at 1:47 PM ]
These players in this order....

Tavon Austin
Desmond Trufant
Tyler Eifert
Johntan Banks

Anything else and I will break my tv (like I almost did with AJ Jenkins)
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap1000000146289/article/combine-alters-position-rankings-for-2013-nfl-draft

Cornerback
1. Dee Milliner, Alabama
2. Xavier Rhodes, Florida State
3. Desmond Trufant Washington
4.Blidi Wreh-Wilson, Connecticut
5. B.W. Webb, William & Mary




New entry: Wreh-Wilson, Webb
Rise: Trufant (4), Patton (5)
Out: Johnthan Banks, Mississippi State (3); Jordan Poyer, Oregon State (5)
Also....dat dere football speed.


Originally posted by valrod33:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap1000000146289/article/combine-alters-position-rankings-for-2013-nfl-draft

Cornerback
1. Dee Milliner, Alabama
2. Xavier Rhodes, Florida State
3. Desmond Trufant Washington
4.Blidi Wreh-Wilson, Connecticut
5. B.W. Webb, William & Mary




New entry: Wreh-Wilson, Webb
Rise: Trufant (4), Patton (5)
Out: Johnthan Banks, Mississippi State (3); Jordan Poyer, Oregon State (5)

Mayock's Top 5 entries from 2011.


Defensive end:

*1. Robert Quinn, North Carolina *2. Da'Quan Bowers, Clemson *3. J.J. Watt, Wisconsin 4. Adrian Clayborn, Iowa 5. Cameron Jordan, California

Outside Linebacker:

1. Von Miller, Texas A&M *2. Akeem Ayers, UCLA *3. Justin Houston, Georgia 4. Bruce Carter, North Carolina 5. Chris Carter, Fresno State

Quarterback:

*1. Blaine Gabbert, Missouri 2. Jake Locker, Washington *3. Cam Newton, Auburn *4. Ryan Mallett, Arkansas 5. Christian Ponder, Florida State
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Banks....#13......going up against one of the top QB's and the top WR in this draft.



The coverage was very good. Although I liked the strip, he seemed tentative as a tackler, and WAY too content to stay blocked. In this game, I don' think that he showed the aggressive physicality that Baalke tends to look for in our defenders. JMO.
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Trade up and take Sheldon Richardson to become Justin Smith apprentice for a year.

At #34 Wide Receiver or Corner back/Safety
The top 5 guys I have us taking are:

1. Jonathan Jenkins
2. Margus Hunt
2. David Amerson
3. Da'Rick Rogers
3. Bacarri Rambo

If Jenkins isn't there, but Johnthan Banks is, I'd have to say we take Banks. We can take Rogers at the bottom of the 2nd, Rambo with our 1st pick in the 3rd, and grab the best available DT/NT with our 2nd pick in the 3rd. Now, there's no way on earth Banks makes it out of the top 20, and that's a modest assessment. Trust me, his 4.6 in the 40 won't be enough to drop him to the bottom of the 1st. I'm sorry, but his body-of-work he put on film is just way too much to overlook behind a bad 40 time. But if it went the way you are saying then Banks would be the no brainer pick.
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
The coverage was very good. Although I liked the strip, he seemed tentative as a tackler, and WAY too content to stay blocked. In this game, I don' think that he showed the aggressive physicality that Baalke tends to look for in our defenders. JMO.

That's one of the big advantages that Banks has over Trufant.....more physical, better at pressing WR's, so if Banks isn't physical enough..............just saying.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Cool it with your know it all attitude. You asked who ranked Trufant higher and I told you. NFL Draftscout is actually one of the better sites. Mayock ( who we both know knows more than either of us had them ranked 3-4 BEFORE the combine. We will see if his rankings change now.

Scouts, Inc also has Trufant as a #1 pick (ranked 32) and Banks below. It doesnt mean that one will be WAY better than the other. It just means that some scouts that do this for a living see it differently than you do.

LOL I've been telling him that in the Margus Hunt page.
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Banks....#13......going up against one of the top QB's and the top WR in this draft.



The coverage was very good. Although I liked the strip, he seemed tentative as a tackler, and WAY too content to stay blocked. In this game, I don' think that he showed the aggressive physicality that Baalke tends to look for in our defenders. JMO.

I still like Banks, just keep him far away from covering the slot.