49ers targeting Ertz?

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
It would be stupid to trade up to draft a TE when we have big time needs on the DL.

We can draft for the dline in he 2nd or with one of our THREE 3rd picks. We have the same chance of finding a solid project pick in those rounds. Any DE/DT is going to be a project whether it's in the 1st or 7th round.

We're not drafting a TE in the first round. I don't care what reports come out. A TE in the first round just isn't good value for a NFL team. We can't keep playing our defensive line that many snaps. We need guys who can rotate in and give Cowboy and McDonald rests. I'd rather draft a Floyd,Jones or Williams in the first round and draft a TE Reed or McDonald in the 3rd to 5th round.

Originally posted by eonblue:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
It would be stupid to trade up to draft a TE when we have big time needs on the DL.

We can draft for the dline in he 2nd or with one of our THREE 3rd picks. We have the same chance of finding a solid project pick in those rounds. Any DE/DT is going to be a project whether it's in the 1st or 7th round.

First of all we dont have THREE 3rd rd picks. We have 2. Secondly, once you get past Floyd, Williams and Jones there is a BIG drop off on the DL. We can find a good TE in later rounds easier than a DL.

Trade AS and our second round draft pick to the raiders for Sebastian Janikowski....



GO NINERS!!!!





GO NINERS!!!!

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
First of all we dont have THREE 3rd rd picks. We have 2. Secondly, once you get past Floyd, Williams and Jones there is a BIG drop off on the DL. We can find a good TE in later rounds easier than a DL.

Dude do you realize how many 1st round Dlinemen never pan out? If we were in 10-15 range than I would say the odds are a lot higher but past that your basically rolling the dye. Dlinemen are one of the most deceiving players when it comes to projecting their future. Is he going to eat right? Is he going to party? Is he going to train hard? Is he going to learn the scheme? I would prefer a guy that has a yes answer for those questions in any round than a guy in the 1st that's going to get 1st round status and 1st round money and then drop off. Dlinemen take time to reach their potential so if you can snag a guy with a good head on his shoulder and train him up for a couple of years you can make your own 1st round talent. Bowman and Brooks are 3rd rounders and they're Pro-Bowlers. Henry Melton, Geno Atkins, Kyle Williams, and Randy Starks are Pro-Bowlers and were all chosen past the 3rd round. In short it's just risky business.

Originally posted by drake49er:
IMO I think it can still work. For Example:

1. TE- Ertz
2. FS/SS - Cyprien
3. NT Williams - Missouri St
3. DE Spence - Cuse
3-5. WR/OLB/CB
6. K Hopkins

It will hit most of our needs.

I'm not very familiar with college kickers. Are there any good prospects out there?

Man, Ertz would be a strange pick. Not the prospect Fleener is, and we passed on him for a random-ass WR pick that ended up being a bust. No way we suddenly decide to eschew DL and DB to take a TE.

Delanie Walker made a very tough catch against Atlanta. Maybe he's turned a corner. You really don't need 3 pass-catching TEs.

I'd like to see D with the 1st 3-4 picks.

Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
Man, Ertz would be a strange pick. Not the prospect Fleener is, and we passed on him for a random-ass WR pick that ended up being a bust. No way we suddenly decide to eschew DL and DB to take a TE.

Delanie Walker made a very tough catch against Atlanta. Maybe he's turned a corner. You really don't need 3 pass-catching TEs.

I remember reading last year that Fleener wasn't the best TE prospect on Stanford's roster... I assumed they were talking about Ertz?

Originally posted by eonblue:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
First of all we dont have THREE 3rd rd picks. We have 2. Secondly, once you get past Floyd, Williams and Jones there is a BIG drop off on the DL. We can find a good TE in later rounds easier than a DL.

Dude do you realize how many 1st round Dlinemen never pan out? If we were in 10-15 range than I would say the odds are a lot higher but past that your basically rolling the dye. Dlinemen are one of the most deceiving players when it comes to projecting their future. Is he going to eat right? Is he going to party? Is he going to train hard? Is he going to learn the scheme? I would prefer a guy that has a yes answer for those questions in any round than a guy in the 1st that's going to get 1st round status and 1st round money and then drop off. Dlinemen take time to reach their potential so if you can snag a guy with a good head on his shoulder and train him up for a couple of years you can make your own 1st round talent. Bowman and Brooks are 3rd rounders and they're Pro-Bowlers. Henry Melton, Geno Atkins, Kyle Williams, and Randy Starks are Pro-Bowlers and were all chosen past the 3rd round. In short it's just risky business.

This.

The great 0 technique NTs come one every couple of years it seems if that. On the defensive line, particularly in the 3-4 it seems like there are more misses than hits. I mentioned in another thread we would be foolish to go D-Line at 32 JUST for the sake of drafting a defensive lineman. If value is there at TE over defensive line, and it probably will be when you are drafting that low, we should go TE. Another thing being overlooked is what a player like Ertz would do for this offense. There will be no sitting out for 12 weeks because he should be ready to go from day one. He also is a guy that could make defenses pay for the attention focused on Vernon Davis, Gore, Crabtree, etc. I'll call it right now and say if we have a TE like Ertz, our offense is on the doorstep of being a top 5 outside which would be a tremendous help to our defense.

Looking at defensive line in general, the track record in the first round appears to be very shaky. Even guys that appeared to be can't miss prospects like Glenn Dorsey haven't panned out too well.

Not gonna take any rigid stances this time. I am perfectly fine if we select Ertz of Eifert in the first round... for all of the pro reasons aforementioned.

( and this is coming from someone who would LOVE to see Floyd, Jesse Williams, or Datone J selected in the 1st )

I do believe that Tomsula can get good results from a youngster whether he be a 7th rounder or 1st rounder. I also believe we will re-sign either Sopo or RJF. So if we have RayMac, Justin, and one of our NTs back, we don't have to feel forced into selecting a DL in rd 1. I think we can and will select 2 DL to push our depth and be potential heir apparents to the older gents.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
AJ Jenkins. There's absolutely no reason why he couldn't. Yeah, he's had an unproductive rookie year, but I'm not ready to give up on him yet.

I was going to say the same. The people down on AJ fail to realize he does have the tools and will have the opportunity to develop and put them all together. As disappointing as it has been that he hasn't been able to contribute, he has time and there is no reason to think that all of a sudden Trent Baalke can't evaluate talent. He's had at least 3 good to great picks in every draft he has run. We can also draft another receiver later in the draft. With the attention that Michael Crabtree, Vernon Davis, our running backs, Colin Kaepernick (as a run threat), and another TE like Ertz could be receiving, there will be opportunities for AJ Jenkins to come in next season and make a serious impact as a deep threat.

On the subject of having the best defensive line player vs. the best TE, it all depends. I think a good receiving TE that can also block (it doesn't necessarily have to be the best TE) can make this offense lethal. The best defensive line player that will be available at 32 will help our defensive line starters get more rest. Big difference. It's not a JJ Watt type of player vs. Zach Ertz (or any of the quality TEs) coming out. It is simply a defensive line player just for the sake of drafting a defensive line player. That would be a mistake. Unless the guy can come in and make an impact in the limited playing time they will receive (similar to Aldon Smith in 2011), we'd be better served picking up that TE, and waiting until the 2nd round to go NT/DE.

Thought that you guys might be saying that as I was thinking the same thing. Wasn't sure how others thought.

That said, when Jenkins was selected, I thought that he was a possession-type receiver with speed. I wasn't thinking of him as a pure speed guy in the tradional mold (like the Randy moss of old, Dez Bryant, Tory Smith, etc.). And I had questions around whether at his size he could fit that role, not get knocked off his routes etc. The fact that with a speed deficiency on the current team, especially now that CK is at QB, Jenkins hasn't received ANY attention, is troubling. But I'm not saying categorically that he is a bust. I hope he's a BIG factor next year.

In the first round it has to be Best Player.

Niners absolutely have to have a large body, pass catching TE with some speed. Absolutely. There seem to be a few in this draft. So it doesn't HAVE to be in the first round.

Same goes for DL. If the worthy DLinemen are not there in the first, perhaps M. Hunt in the second could fit the bill. He may be the J Smith replacement after a year or so under Justin's tutelage.

I trust that Baalke and his group know the team's needs and will do what's best.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
This.

The great 0 technique NTs come one every couple of years it seems if that. On the defensive line, particularly in the 3-4 it seems like there are more misses than hits. I mentioned in another thread we would be foolish to go D-Line at 32 JUST for the sake of drafting a defensive lineman. If value is there at TE over defensive line, and it probably will be when you are drafting that low, we should go TE. Another thing being overlooked is what a player like Ertz would do for this offense. There will be no sitting out for 12 weeks because he should be ready to go from day one. He also is a guy that could make defenses pay for the attention focused on Vernon Davis, Gore, Crabtree, etc. I'll call it right now and say if we have a TE like Ertz, our offense is on the doorstep of being a top 5 outside which would be a tremendous help to our defense.

Looking at defensive line in general, the track record in the first round appears to be very shaky. Even guys that appeared to be can't miss prospects like Glenn Dorsey haven't panned out too well.

2008 NFL Draft

5 Kansas City Chiefs Glenn Dorsey DT
6 New York Jets Vernon Gholston DE
7 New Orleans Saints Sedrick Ellis DT
28 NINERS Kentwan Balmer DT

Dorsey flopped, Saints can't wait to offload Ellis(maybe we could re vitalize his career), Gholston is teamless.

I want to use our first pick on someone that is going to add dynamic to the team or I want us to draft the secondary. All the prospect at DT/DE aren't very encouraging. I would really like to address the dline via free angency where we know what were getting and don't have to wait 3 years to get it.

Originally posted by eonblue:
2008 NFL Draft

5 Kansas City Chiefs Glenn Dorsey DT
6 New York Jets Vernon Gholston DE
7 New Orleans Saints Sedrick Ellis DT
28 NINERS Kentwan Balmer DT

Dorsey flopped, Saints can't wait to offload Ellis(maybe we could re vitalize his career), Gholston is teamless.

I want to use our first pick on someone that is going to add dynamic to the team or I want us to draft the secondary. All the prospect at DT/DE aren't very encouraging. I would really like to address the dline via free angency where we know what were getting and don't have to wait 3 years to get it.

I was actually thinking of starting a thread where we reached for a player just because they filled a need as opposed to BPA. Kentwan Balmer fits the bill. Now first off, even though he was clearly a bust, there was some talent there. But there were also lots of questions out there about him being a one year wonder. And we passed on a guy I thought was the BPA, Desean Jackson. We did the same thing in 2005. Not to knock Alex Smith (I am a Smith fan), but he wasn't BPA. There are times when need and BPA intersect, like 2004, when we should've drafted Vince Wilfork in our original spot, but for some reason I will never understand, we traded down and ended up picking Rashaun Woods. All of this is really the art and science of the draft.

I'm with you in wanting to add a dynamic playmaker. We don't simply need another body if we are talking about grooming a replacement for Justin Smith. We already have bodies. Their names are Demarcus Dobbs, Will Tufuaku, etc. At 32, the value will be there for TE. It may also be there for corner as you mentioned. Outside of those two positions, I'm in favor of trading down and getting more picks in the 2nd-4th rounds. At the end of the day, I think Baalke is trying to add more youth, speed, playmakers, and eventual replacements.

One other thing, if a player comes in and makes an impact, it really doesn't matter what round they were drafted in. This is in response to the comment about a TE being drafted in the first round doesn't provide good value. What value does Vernon Davis provide to the team? Granted, you can find a dynamic TE in the third round like a Jimmy Graham, but considering both are great players, it doesn't matter what round they were drafted in. That only becomes an issue when your pick fails. Had Kentwan Balmer become the next Casey Hampton/Vince Wilfork type, no one would've cared if we passed on Jackson. Go BPA. If the BPA is something like ILB, QB, or some other position we shouldn't draft in the first round, then trade back, still get the guy you want and get extra picks.