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Neglected D Line

I understand your point. The line does need some youth.
[ Edited by eonblue on Jan 4, 2013 at 4:23 PM ]
max - I'm not saying that 49ers management shouldn't look back at re-assess their draft evaluations. Every team does that and every team puts together a game plan to address their needs every year (whether it works out or not is always a different matter). I wasn't commenting on what the team does (we have literally no control over that), I was commenting on us fans, here on this board. As fans who post in these forums, anyone can play the "we should've done this or should've done that" game. I just don't find that particularly useful or interesting. Maybe I should just ignore.
Originally posted by 9erred:
Originally posted by maxsmart:
Originally posted by strickac:
We've neglected to upgrade the NT position and draft depth. I can't necessarily fault the team though.

Why not fault the team? They should have picked D line this last year instead of AJ Jenkins. They had poor depth and hadn't picked a dline in 3 years.
Should have picked Derek Wolfe (pick 36) (40 tackles 6 sacks) or Kendall Reyes (pick 49) (28 & 5.5) (might have even traded down). Serviceable WR's (like AJ Jenkins) are easy to find, but good DL are hard to find.


I agree, if only we had that looking glass and drafted Brady, Brees, Marquis Colston in the 6th round. In all seriousness though I agree with you and wanted Wolfe at that position.

Jenkins isn't looking like great pick, but he's barely seen the field, so who knows what we have with him. WR depth is a serious issue though. Moss was a stopgap and Manningham is on a short deal. Ginn is in his last year and Williams appears to be a role player. WR was the right pick. I'm afraid we chose the wrong player though. Even this year, we still need to add another WR.

LMJ hasn't burst on the scene yet, but he's going to be a good player for a long time for us. Speed backs tend to develop a little slower than traditional runners. With us being such a run-based team that pick makes sense to me. LMJ was as good as anyone in college. He's a special talent and I think we have a solid player.

We need depth on the Dline, but even a rookie wouldn't have been able to step in and replace Justin. It's unlikely a rookie would've played over RJF either.
Originally posted by strickac:
We need depth on the Dline, but even a rookie wouldn't have been able to step in and replace Justin. It's unlikely a rookie would've played over RJF either.

Sopoaga 31 y/o, Ray McDonald 28 y/o, Justin Smith is 33 y/o = that's an OLD Dline!
Plus they had poor depth, and ride the starters until they drop dead! They should shuttle fresh Dlinemen in and out to keep them fresh and keep the pressure on the pass rush.

Either Derek Wolfe or Kendall Reyes are already upgrades over McDonald, and would have /should have split time all year long, not just "replaced Justin". Plus they will improve with time, while our entire starting Dline is on the downside of their careers. That was also true in April 2012 and should have been addressed in the last draft. Live and learn. Go niners!
[ Edited by maxsmart on Jan 4, 2013 at 5:04 PM ]
Originally posted by strickac:
Jenkins isn't looking like great pick, but he's barely seen the field, so who knows what we have with him. WR depth is a serious issue though. Moss was a stopgap and Manningham is on a short deal. Ginn is in his last year and Williams appears to be a role player. WR was the right pick. I'm afraid we chose the wrong player though. Even this year, we still need to add another WR.

LMJ hasn't burst on the scene yet, but he's going to be a good player for a long time for us. Speed backs tend to develop a little slower than traditional runners. With us being such a run-based team that pick makes sense to me. LMJ was as good as anyone in college. He's a special talent and I think we have a solid player.

We need depth on the Dline, but even a rookie wouldn't have been able to step in and replace Justin. It's unlikely a rookie would've played over RJF either.

I just dont understand how you can demand dline depth when moss is prolly in his last season. Davis is losing a step. Ginn jr is awful. I mean crabtree is our only solid receiver. Manningham was the future but guys hes going to take awhile to recoop his injury was serious. I agree we have to solve this offense problem otherwise our guys are going to be playing to many snaps and having to win games jn the fourth quarter. Really i feel if we get one more solid reciver will be n good shape.
Originally posted by eonblue:
I just dont understand how you can demand dline depth when moss is prolly in his last season. Davis is losing a step. Ginn jr is awful. I mean crabtree is our only solid receiver. Manningham was the future but guys hes going to take awhile to recoop his injury was serious. I agree we have to solve this offense problem otherwise our guys are going to be playing to many snaps and having to win games jn the fourth quarter. Really i feel if we get one more solid reciver will be n good shape.

Walsh said that you need to draft defense high because you need great athletes on defense. But offense you don't need to draft as high because offense is mostly skill and training. He esp. coveted D line and pass rush. You can find WR's as FA or later draft picks, but D line are harder to find. Pick up a FA WR, but draft Dline.
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Originally posted by eonblue:
I just dont understand how you can demand dline depth when moss is prolly in his last season. Davis is losing a step. Ginn jr is awful. I mean crabtree is our only solid receiver. Manningham was the future but guys hes going to take awhile to recoop his injury was serious. I agree we have to solve this offense problem otherwise our guys are going to be playing to many snaps and having to win games jn the fourth quarter. Really i feel if we get one more solid reciver will be n good shape.


The need for depth on the defensive line is not necessarily in conflict with the need to build a solid receiving coprs.

This draft has solid depth on the defensive line and we have at least three picks on day two of the draft.

What we do in free agency is going to be important also.
Henry Melton whom I think could be a very good DE is going to be a free agent and he might be pissed that Lovie Smith was canned.
If we get Goldson to come back, we will not have to use a high pick on safety.

If we sign Sopoaga, and I see no reason why he would not want to return, we maintain our starting defensive line.
This is the year to draft a nose tackle and defensive end for the future.
They would have one or two years to develop--and would provide immediate rotational help.

I agree that we need major infusion of talent on the receiving corps.

One potential draft is:

1. Best Wide Receiver or Tight End. (Ertz, Eifert, Patterson, or Austin)
2. DE (Margus Hunt)
3a. Nose tackle (Brandon Williams)
3b. best Defensive Back (Ryan, Thomas, or Wilcox)
3c. Best offensive tackle--we need depth
4a. Best Wide Reciver or Tight End
4b. BPA or trade up
5. BPA or trade up
and it goes on.

In short, we can meet our immediate and future needs on the defensive line and receiving corps.

But, then I am optimistic.
UGH
This year's draft is stocked with DL so you will get your wish.
I don't think that we've neglected the dline so to speak. You have to remember how many holes this team had three years ago. A average secondary, a average pass rush and other than Patrick Wills, there was an aging Takeo Spikes and not much afterwards. On offense the oline was a mess, and we had very average receiver depth. Plus they had been trying to find a young running back to develop behind Gore. Obviously the dline has been the least of this teams worries. When you look at all the talent that we have added across the board in the last three years I'm not sure how anybody can complain.

It wasn't really until this last draft that the team had the luxury of taking the best player available, regardless of position and like another poster said they clearly felt that adding more explosion to the offense was a priority. With Crabtree breaking out, it has enabled the team to not rush AJ Jenkins into the line up and as of the last few weeks we should be very happy the team decided to go with LMJ when we did. This team has stockpiled a ton of picks for next years draft and the team has seemed to follow a plan since the new regime took control. Perhaps stockpiling picks to get more d line depth was a part of that plan.

I also think looking at where our dline was drafted is irrelevant when they have all performed as high round picks and obviously we are not at practice and the coaches and personel that are felt very comfortable with the young talent that was in place behind the agging veterans.

I urge patience because this team has continued to set itself up really well the last couple of seasons with getting more draft picks and smart moves in free agency. Just let the professionals do their job as the new regime clearly hasn't made too many mistakes thus far and who are we too question the product we've been given the last two years... .
[ Edited by Willisfn4life on Jan 4, 2013 at 6:27 PM ]
Originally posted by maxsmart:
Walsh said that you need to draft defense high because you need great athletes on defense. But offense you don't need to draft as high because offense is mostly skill and training. He esp. coveted D line and pass rush. You can find WR's as FA or later draft picks, but D line are harder to find. Pick up a FA WR, but draft Dline.

Well that coveted dline pass rusher isnt going to be there at our pick. And this has nothing to do with what Walsh said. Teams have.to address their needs not ignore their weaknesses because they want over induldge their strengths. How often has our defense looked like they needed help? After the 90+ snap against the pats? Im telling you if we managing the clock and scoring this wouldnt be a conversation. Against the Seahawks we marched to RZ three times in a row and each time they stuffed us. Once was a blocked kick which was returned for a TD.If you score that doesnt happen. Sherman picked it in the RZ the next RZ possession. I know dline depth is an issue that needs to be addressed but if you think were going to pick up FA talent at WR that can compete with that seatle secondary your crazy. And if you thjnk depth is more important than actual needs your delusional.
Im not angry. I dont know why it posted the angry face.
All we have to do is go back to the draft forum and look at what all of the people who are calling for D-line picks NOW and saying that Baalke made a mistake asked for back then.

I knew we needed help on offense and that was my main concern heading into the 2012 offseason. I was all in on Coby Fleener as a #2 TE or another receiver (Hill, Sanu, Randle, etc).

It wasn't even a certainty that we had 2 average starters at receiver back then. You can't use what happened this year and then talk about what we should've done back then.

If we are going to play that game, I should've invested in Microsoft. Grandparents should've invested in Coke. I should've sold put options on Enron.
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
All we have to do is go back to the draft forum and look at what all of the people who are calling for D-line picks NOW and saying that Baalke made a mistake asked for back then.

I knew we needed help on offense and that was my main concern heading into the 2012 offseason. I was all in on Coby Fleener as a #2 TE or another receiver (Hill, Sanu, Randle, etc).

It wasn't even a certainty that we had 2 average starters at receiver back then. You can't use what happened this year and then talk about what we should've done back then.

If we are going to play that game, I should've invested in Microsoft. Grandparents should've invested in Coke. I should've sold put options on Enron.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda!
Originally posted by maxsmart:
Walsh said that you need to draft defense high because you need great athletes on defense. But offense you don't need to draft as high because offense is mostly skill and training. He esp. coveted D line and pass rush. You can find WR's as FA or later draft picks, but D line are harder to find. Pick up a FA WR, but draft Dline.

Bill Walsh's draft history with high picks (Rounds 1-3) suggests that he drafted defense and offense fairly evenly from 1979 to 1988.