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MadDog's Niners Draft Grade and Analysis

Originally posted by buck:
Enlighten me. What is the only valid criticism that is being ignored?
that you don't draft a right guard in round one, if you want to be a winning team.

other than that, i purposely hyperbolized.
Originally posted by zugschef:
that you don't draft a right guard in round one, if you want to be a winning team.

other than that, i purposely hyperbolized.

if that is your only hole than ya you would draft one in first roud...

how would that not make you a winnign team?
Originally posted by Oldschool9erfan:
I am DIE HARD niner fan and I love the draft, but I don't have the time to review all players before the actual draft. But now I've watched Jenkins against tape of the other WR (Wright, Hill, Sanu, Streeter, Blackmon, Floyd)......it's surprising that he wasn't rated higher. Jenkins is not just a "speed" guy, he is productive, got the speed, has decent height and didn't have the best Qb's throwing to him.

People talked a lot about Streeter and Hill because they are big and 6 4 and 215 and really fast (4.36), but neither of those guys have hardly any college production compared to Jenkins. Those guys wouldn't be in the conversation at all except for the combine. Even I thought the Niners could have used Streeter in the 5th round, but Jenkins is a much better prospect. If you listen to the draft gurus (mayock and kiper) said Streeter and hill are superraw and only really run the 9 route. so that is MASSIVE gamble you are taking. Jenkins is way more pro ready than those guys.

I agree to some extent that no matter who we pick we are going to be biased. But the true football fans on the board can watch college tape and make their own decisions give us a little credit.

Man do I agree with that statement....

I've seen a lot of mock draft boards over the past several months and many of them had Stephen Hill and even Alshon Jeffery rated ahead of Jenkins. The former has an extremely raw game and is unlikely to contribute much his first season (other than perhaps as a blocker), and the latter has major character issues not to mention real questions about his work ethic, love for the game, and attention to detail.....all traits that many teams place a high value on.

It appears now that many draft experts don't take into account many of the criteria that a lot of NFL teams (especially the good ones) do when selecting a player.... Instead they tend to focus and place way too much emphasis on sheer physical traits and athleticism. With the trend towards bigger WRs lately (Calvin Johnson being the poster child for this trend), I've noticed that draftniks are really getting carried away overrating guys based on their size and 40-yard dash times.

The Niners clearly did their due diligence before they selected Jenkins and obviously, they feel great about the choice. I'm cool with it...

Cheers!
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Forming an opinion after the NIners draft is not an objective way to grade a player, since you already have a bias to root for the guy, and see the best in a player, because you desperately want them to succeed.

This is a trap that some fall into. Nobody on the board is bemoaning the fact that we didn't select Stephen Hill, Mohamed Sanu, Rueben Randle, Brian Quick. But, we know how the game is played, If one of these guys were selected, and not Jenkins, nobody would be saddened that we didn't take Jenkins. If you are curious how much support there was on the board for Jenkins before the draft, happy hunting. There was more interest in players like Tommy Streeter. In other words, some fans will defend to the death a Niners' selection, regardless of the selection. That is not an honest evaluation. I provide an honest evaluation that does not waver on whether the team selects a player or not.

Doubt my previous statements? Please review the thread last year after the draft on which QB drafted would be most successful. It was CK in a landslide. Fans are fans, I get it. However, to criticize someone's assessment of players in the draft and defend management, hardly knowing anything about a player going into the draft is shoddy.

I have been following Jenkins and watching him for years. That is not the "exact same way" as someone who scrambles for a draft guide after the pick to figure out who we got.
Uh, not so hard to find support for Jenkins on this board predraft. Theres a whole thread devoted to him which was started in January, well before the draft.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Forming an opinion after the NIners draft is not an objective way to grade a player, since you already have a bias to root for the guy, and see the best in a player, because you desperately want them to succeed.

This is a trap that some fall into. Nobody on the board is bemoaning the fact that we didn't select Stephen Hill, Mohamed Sanu, Rueben Randle, Brian Quick. But, we know how the game is played, If one of these guys were selected, and not Jenkins, nobody would be saddened that we didn't take Jenkins. If you are curious how much support there was on the board for Jenkins before the draft, happy hunting. There was more interest in players like Tommy Streeter. In other words, some fans will defend to the death a Niners' selection, regardless of the selection. That is not an honest evaluation. I provide an honest evaluation that does not waver on whether the team selects a player or not.

Doubt my previous statements? Please review the thread last year after the draft on which QB drafted would be most successful. It was CK in a landslide. Fans are fans, I get it. However, to criticize someone's assessment of players in the draft and defend management, hardly knowing anything about a player going into the draft is shoddy.

I have been following Jenkins and watching him for years. That is not the "exact same way" as someone who scrambles for a draft guide after the pick to figure out who we got.
Uh, not so hard to find support for Jenkins on this board predraft. Theres a whole thread devoted to him which was started in January, well before the draft.

i actually wouldve perfered randle but that doesnt mean im not happy to get jenkins i just felt randle has speed is big bodied and pro ready
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Uh, not so hard to find support for Jenkins on this board predraft. Theres a whole thread devoted to him which was started in January, well before the draft.

You make a compelling argument with that.....One thread on Jenkins with a grand total of...33 posts. Overwhelming.
Tommy Streeter- 2 threads and 144 posts
Stephen Hill- 6 threads and more than 1000 posts
Rueben Randle- 3 threads with Nearly 300 posts
Marvin Jones- 3 threads
A combine Mohamed Sanu thread with 217 posts
Dwight Jones (undrafted)- 3 threads
Brian Quick- 2 threads

You are reaching at this point. But, let's get back to the subject. You argue strongly that the Niners' draft would be superior to mine, although you previously stated that you didn't know AJ Jenkins. As I stated, you want to see Jenkins succeed, as we all do, thus you grade him highly, post selection, and you state the weakness of other options with the pick. As I have stated, this is not an objective way to look into the draft. It appears that you would find whatever rational to defend any Niners pick, post-selection, regardless of the player (sub in Brian Quick or Stephen Hill or Rueben Randle or anyone).

Final note, you continue to state, deliberately, and in error, that I hate, dislike, object to, every Baalke selection. This is categorically false, and you know it, since you have read my review with numerous high grades in this draft as well as a final grade of a C+.
[ Edited by MadDog49er on May 5, 2012 at 7:55 PM ]
Originally posted by jreff22:
Quote:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Round 1--Peter Konz. C/G Drafted in the first round by you, but all 32 teams passed on him in the first round

Baalke's Round 1 pick was A.J. Jenkins at #30. since there's evidence that the Rams would have taken him at #33.
Pretty much the entire NFL passed on Jenkins in the first, not a knock on the kid but a fact. Just because the Rams were going to take him doesn't mean a whole lot of s**t to me...should we base our draft off the Rams board? Thats like saying Seattle is smart by taking Irvin that high because other teams were high on him. And I take the "comments from inside knowledge of war rooms" with a grain of salt, the Rams had 3 2nd round picks...we don't know their board.
Quote:
Round 2--Mohamed Sanu. Trouble with the pick is that he's really just a mirror image, at best, of Crabtree--who's also 6'2" and 215ish, without the elite speed. Sanu, however, also lacks the extra long reach that Crabtree has.
Baalke used the second round pick, #61, to take LMJ, an explosively quick RB who adds a speed dimension out of the backfield that the Niners have been lacking for at least the past 8 years. You did not increase the WR depth at all by adding a new or different dimension, but simply got a clone of Crabs.

A clone of Crabs would be a always injured baby who doesn't play good in big games, that is not Sanu. Just because they share the same height/weight doesn't mean they are the same player.
Quote:
Round 3--Brandon Thompson. NT out of Clemson, he's 6'2" and 314 lbs who was taken at #93 by the Bengals. He is, again, a virtual clone of a guy already on the Niners, Ian Williams
<strong class="quote">Joe Looney at #117</strong>. He will compete for RG with Kilgore, Person, and Boone, and will, according to Baalke, someday be a starter. Considering the fact that your NT was not even on the board when Baalke selected Looney, the fact that Looney fell a little due to an untimely foot injury (and was actually rated as a second round value), and the fact that this pick addresses a position of actual, present need--
Head to head: Advantage Baalke again.
Again thinking he's a "clone". Ian Williams is an UDFA who the NFL saw having no draft value, Thompson is the better athlete...having draft value. If we are going to skip over guys because they look similar then Trent is a massive idiot. And both NT's on the roster are without contracts after this season.

Boone is not going to RG. If you laugh at the "expert" rankings, why site them to make an argument. Crabs was injured but the talent was too go to pass up...with Looney that wasn't the case and the ratings were obviously wrong.
Quote:
Round 4--Malik Jackson. DT out of Tennessee, he's 6'4" and 284, drafted by the Broncos, probably as a 3-4 DE, with the #137 pick overall. Again, he appears to be a clone of a guy already on the Niner's roster, Demarcus Dobbs. If the Niners had taken Jackson he'd be behind Justin Smith, Ray MacDonald, Takuafu, RJF, and Dobbs. In other words, a long shot to even make the roster. Again, why would the Niners want to take him in the Fourth to line up behind all those other DL guys? Seems, again, like a wasted pick.
Baalke used the Fourth round to pick Darious Fleming, a 6'2", 245 lb OLB out of Notre Dame, at #165. You described him above as "a good football player, athletic, fast, and productive." He plays ST, and will back up at OLB--where the Niners took a risk last year in carrying only 3 OLB. Fleming fills a need for depth and will contribute on ST. What's not to like.
Advantage: Baalke, again.
And again the clone argument. We need to get better everywhere, not sure why that is hard to understand. A 4th round pick should make the roster and the talent should be able to beat out the other backups. Who is the main DE if RJF is at NT......? No clear cut player means we dont have one.
Quote:

Round 5--Vick Ballard. RB out of Miss. St. who is 5'10" and 219 lbs that was drafted by the Colts at #170 overall. Strong and tough, but no elite speed or explosiveness, he would, again, have to compete with Gore, Hunter, Jacobs, Dixon and Cartwright. Adds nothing that Hunter and Dixon don't already provide, Seems like a wasted pick.
Baalke used the 5th round to take Trent Robinson at #180, a safety who's projected to backup Goldson and WhitJner. Somewhat undersized, he's tough and has excellent coverage skills, and may find his way onto the field in nickel and dime situations, where coverage skills are more important than playing in the box. You gave him an A grade.
Advantage: Baalke.


Dixon is trash at RB and Jacobs is a short term deal and may get cut now anyways. You do need power to move the ball and having a young option is not a bad idea. Chances are we add the same type of player in a year or two to replace Gore. Midget FS, time will tell.
Quote:

Round 6--Antonio Allen. SS taken by the Jets at #242 overall, in the 7th round. He's 6'1", 210 and has the size expected of a SS. He fell, however to the 7th round, and you're taking him in the 6th. Doesn't appear to be a great value.
Baalke used the 6th round, pick #199 overall, to take Slowey, a small school OL with excellent strength, speed, and nastiness, who's probably gonna need a year on the PS to get a little bigger. You give him an A grade.
Advantage: this one might be even, depending on how these two guys develop over the next couple years.
At this point in the draft its hard to speculate how far guys will fall, Slowey may of fallen to the 7th as well. And some of these guys will get cut so thinking every prospect we draft is great while any alternative is not is a bit homerish and not thinking objectively.
Quote:


Round 7--Darrious Brooks. CB out of W. Kentucky, he's 5'10" and 192 who went undrafted. All 32 teams passed on him in all 7 rounds.
Baalke used the 7th round to pick Cameron Johnson at #237, who surprisingly fell precipitously in the draft, but who appears to offer great value at OLB. You give him an A grade.
Advantage: Baalke.
Again Johnson may of gone undrafted had we not taken him. And does it matter what other teams do...should we be basing our draft off of other teams, because they say its good? Lots of teams passed on lots of guys...we passed on guys who will turn out to be great.

Quote:
The additions of Jenkins, LMJ, and Looney on the other hand will force defenses to rethink the "stacking the box, run-blitz" attitude after they get burned a few times by Jenkins on a slant, or LMJ out fo the backfield.

You don't even know if Looney will be starting so to assume he will force any team to do anything is pure speculation....and probably wrong. Take a good look at the roster and look to next year and you will probably see DE-NT-WR get drafted, even though we have "clones" of those guys right now. Trent will make mistakes, he is human. Following him blindly and thinking every pick is the best pick and not questioning him or at least looking at the other alternatives is not what this site is about. Critiquing players and the FO and discussing them is why we are here. You guys act like the FO is infallible and that's not the case, but going after posters who disagree with them like they did something wrong is dumb. I prefer a wait and see approach but crowning every pick in this draft better then any other alternative shows a lack of knowledge.

Thank you for saving me about an hours time. I honestly don't think you could find one analyst in the country who would compare Crabtree and Sanu. The terms used were mirror image or clone. I am sure OTC peed in his pants laughing at this one. In addition, Crabtree's reach was 3/4 of an inch longer than Sanu, which is longer, but not something to note as striking. Ian Willams and Demarcus Dobbs are superior pros to Brandon Thompson and Malik Jackson. Someone pass the word onto some GMs, because this is breaking news. Tell me, how can you even argue with this?
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
You make a compelling argument with that.....One thread on Jenkins with a grand total of...33 posts. Overwhelming.
Tommy Streeter- 2 threads and 144 posts
Stephen Hill- 6 threads and more than 1000 posts
Rueben Randle- 3 threads with Nearly 300 posts
Marvin Jones- 3 threads
A combine Mohamed Sanu thread with 217 posts
Dwight Jones (undrafted)- 3 threads
Brian Quick- 2 threads

You are reaching at this point. But, let's get back to the subject. You argue strongly that the Niners' draft would be superior to mine, although you previously stated that you didn't know AJ Jenkins. As I stated, you want to see Jenkins succeed, as we all do, thus you grade him highly, post selection, and you state the weakness of other options with the pick. As I have stated, this is not an objective way to look into the draft. It appears that you would find whatever rational to defend any Niners pick, post-selection, regardless of the player (sub in Brian Quick or Stephen Hill or Rueben Randle or anyone).

Final note, you continue to state, deliberately, and in error, that I hate, dislike, object to, every Baalke selection. This is categorically false, and you know it, since you have read my review with numerous high grades in this draft as well as a final grade of a C+.

One of the most highly talked about weaknesses we had last year was our lack of size at receiver. It shouldn't be that surprising that we all gravitated towards the taller guys.

I think Kendall Wright was the only receiver under 6'3 that people discussed at length.

I don't quite get why you think discussion matters anyways. You're right most Zoners are nothing more than homers. Then again there's probally only 5-10 guys here that really know their sh** when it comes to the draft. The fact that he flew under the Zone's radar is meaningless. Last year Robert Quick was talked about 10x more than Aldon Smith. While everyone here was flipping out that we might have reached you heard sources saying Houston was drooling over him and low and behold guess who turns out to be the stud. Ultimately I take GM's thoughts over Kipers or Mayocks and certainly take it over fan consensus.
[ Edited by tjd808185 on May 5, 2012 at 8:39 PM ]
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
You make a compelling argument with that.....One thread on Jenkins with a grand total of...33 posts. Overwhelming.
Tommy Streeter- 2 threads and 144 posts
Stephen Hill- 6 threads and more than 1000 posts
Rueben Randle- 3 threads with Nearly 300 posts
Marvin Jones- 3 threads
A combine Mohamed Sanu thread with 217 posts
Dwight Jones (undrafted)- 3 threads
Brian Quick- 2 threads

You are reaching at this point. But, let's get back to the subject. You argue strongly that the Niners' draft would be superior to mine, although you previously stated that you didn't know AJ Jenkins. As I stated, you want to see Jenkins succeed, as we all do, thus you grade him highly, post selection, and you state the weakness of other options with the pick. As I have stated, this is not an objective way to look into the draft. It appears that you would find whatever rational to defend any Niners pick, post-selection, regardless of the player (sub in Brian Quick or Stephen Hill or Rueben Randle or anyone).

Final note, you continue to state, deliberately, and in error, that I hate, dislike, object to, every Baalke selection. This is categorically false, and you know it, since you have read my review with numerous high grades in this draft as well as a final grade of a C+.
You said "happy hunting" to anyone looking for ANY support for Jenkins on this board before the draft. I simply point out that such support did exist. Now your only response is "its not really that much support." Bottom line is that you're wrong about all the fans on the board being mindless drones who are simply slaves to the Niner front office. Some guys liked Jenkins well before he was drafted. So much for the sweeping condemnation of all Niner fans on this board. Its simply not supported.

You're also wrong about your statement that I would try to "find whatever rational [rationale] to defend any Niners pick, post selection." I did not compare your "mock" to the Niners in order to defend the Niner's. Baalke and Harbaugh don't need any help from me to defend themselves.

As I have repeatedly stated, my comparison was done to help understand, discuss and analyse what the Niners did in the draft. I really don't care what your "mock" opinion was--you don't field an actual team that I follow. Your mock just served as a foil, a means for comparison.

I did not grade the Niners draft either, or any of the players, Jenkins included. Such grades are pointless, IMO. The "C" you gave to Aldon Smith last year did not seem to slow him down much, or prevent him from accumulating 14 regular season sacks. Had you given him an "A" or an "F" the same would be true. Post draft grades are meaningless.

Its all too easy for someone to come up with a "mock" draft after they've seen the Niner's selections, then post one that mimics their position picks in a different order and claim to have greater value. "I took a RG in the first, and got the explosive guy in the 5th, so I'm great an the Niners screwed up." No one knew they were even looking for explosive guys until they took them. Second guessing, and Monday morning quarterbacking; its not even very interesting.

Not as interesting, to me, as trying to figure out the thinking process that went into the Niners draft. Discussing with other Niner fans what occurred, who was selected, and why, maybe in the context of a comparison with someone's "mock" draft, helps analyse what might have gone on in the Niner's war room. Its likely as close as any of us will get to actually eavesdropping on Baalke and Harbaugh when they discuss a selection.

You are also wrong about my statement regarding Jenkins. I said I did not recognize him at first, when he was initially announced as the Niner's selection. I was not expecting him, and it took me a minute to recall who he was. That doesn't mean I didn't know about him before the draft. In fact, I read the thread about him on this board, among other things, before the draft.

Finally, you are also wrong when you state that I "continue to state, deliberately and in error, that [you] dislike, hate and object to every Baalke selection." I have never stated that at all. Last year you went on the record as disliking Baalke's managment style and drafting strategy. You said you preferred more of a take charge, gambler type. I assumed that you continue to feel that way, especially in light of the fact that you give Baalke's #1 selection an F, not because of anything about the pick, Jenkins, but because you speculate that Baalke passed on a chance to trade up for DeCastro. The mythical missed "golden opportunity."

If you no longer have objections to Baalke's management style, you need to make it more clear. Obviously, you don't hate every one of his selections, given some of the very high (and very meaningless) grades you gave some of them this year. Robinson, Slowey, Cam Johnson, for example.

So, "down boy." Get over the amateur psychology about all Niner fans believing that every pick becomes a star when he's selected by the Niners. It may be true for a few, but there are alot of very, very knowledgeable football minds on this board, and they are more than capable of evaluating football talent, even if they are also Niner fans.
[ Edited by oldninerdude on May 5, 2012 at 11:05 PM ]
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Thank you for saving me about an hours time. I honestly don't think you could find one analyst in the country who would compare Crabtree and Sanu. The terms used were mirror image or clone. I am sure OTC peed in his pants laughing at this one. In addition, Crabtree's reach was 3/4 of an inch longer than Sanu, which is longer, but not something to note as striking. Ian Willams and Demarcus Dobbs are superior pros to Brandon Thompson and Malik Jackson. Someone pass the word onto some GMs, because this is breaking news. Tell me, how can you even argue with this?

Yes. I was very disappointed when the Niners passed on the opportunity to draft Brandon Thompson. He could have provided high quality depth on a DL which needed it. Perhaps the team believes that Dobbs and Williams can develop into pretty good players (or already are) but I still think it is risky to go into the season with rotational guys that were both UDFAs, no matter how high you think their ceilings are.

Getting at least one good DL prospect in the draft would have made me feel better about it overall....but then again, a DLman was conspicuous in its absence. It shows the team feels OK going forward with the guys they have. I hope they are correct in that assessment.

Cheers!
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
You make a compelling argument with that.....One thread on Jenkins with a grand total of...33 posts. Overwhelming.
Tommy Streeter- 2 threads and 144 posts
Stephen Hill- 6 threads and more than 1000 posts
Rueben Randle- 3 threads with Nearly 300 posts
Marvin Jones- 3 threads
A combine Mohamed Sanu thread with 217 posts
Dwight Jones (undrafted)- 3 threads
Brian Quick- 2 threads

You are reaching at this point. But, let's get back to the subject. You argue strongly that the Niners' draft would be superior to mine, although you previously stated that you didn't know AJ Jenkins. As I stated, you want to see Jenkins succeed, as we all do, thus you grade him highly, post selection, and you state the weakness of other options with the pick. As I have stated, this is not an objective way to look into the draft. It appears that you would find whatever rational to defend any Niners pick, post-selection, regardless of the player (sub in Brian Quick or Stephen Hill or Rueben Randle or anyone).

Final note, you continue to state, deliberately, and in error, that I hate, dislike, object to, every Baalke selection. This is categorically false, and you know it, since you have read my review with numerous high grades in this draft as well as a final grade of a C+.
You said "happy hunting" to anyone looking for ANY support for Jenkins on this board before the draft. I simply point out that such support did exist. Now your only response is "its not really that much support." Bottom line is that you're wrong about all the fans on the board being mindless drones who are simply slaves to the Niner front office. Some guys liked Jenkins well before he was drafted. So much for the sweeping condemnation of all Niner fans on this board. Its simply not supported.

You're also wrong about your statement that I would try to "find whatever rational [rationale] to defend any Niners pick, post selection." I did not compare your "mock" to the Niners in order to defend the Niner's. Baalke and Harbaugh don't need any help from me to defend themselves.

As I have repeatedly stated, my comparison was done to help understand, discuss and analyse what the Niners did in the draft. I really don't care what your "mock" opinion was--you don't field an actual team that I follow. Your mock just served as a foil, a means for comparison.

I did not grade the Niners draft either, or any of the players, Jenkins included. Such grades are pointless, IMO. The "C" you gave to Aldon Smith last year did not seem to slow him down much, or prevent him from accumulating 14 regular season sacks. Had you given him an "A" or an "F" the same would be true. Post draft grades are meaningless.

Its all too easy for someone to come up with a "mock" draft after they've seen the Niner's selections, then post one that mimics their position picks in a different order and claim to have greater value. "I took a RG in the first, and got the explosive guy in the 5th, so I'm great an the Niners screwed up." No one knew they were even looking for explosive guys until they took them. Second guessing, and Monday morning quarterbacking; its not even very interesting.

Not as interesting, to me, as trying to figure out the thinking process that went into the Niners draft. Discussing with other Niner fans what occurred, who was selected, and why, maybe in the context of a comparison with someone's "mock" draft, helps analyse what might have gone on in the Niner's war room. Its likely as close as any of us will get to actually eavesdropping on Baalke and Harbaugh when they discuss a selection.

You are also wrong about my statement regarding Jenkins. I said I did not recognize him at first, when he was initially announced as the Niner's selection. I was not expecting him, and it took me a minute to recall who he was. That doesn't mean I didn't know about him before the draft. In fact, I read the thread about him on this board, among other things, before the draft.

Finally, you are also wrong when you state that I "continue to state, deliberately and in error, that [you] dislike, hate and object to every Baalke selection." I have never stated that at all. Last year you went on the record as disliking Baalke's managment style and drafting strategy. You said you preferred more of a take charge, gambler type. I assumed that you continue to feel that way, especially in light of the fact that you give Baalke's #1 selection an F, not because of anything about the pick, Jenkins, but because you speculate that Baalke passed on a chance to trade up for DeCastro. The mythical missed "golden opportunity."

If you no longer have objections to Baalke's management style, you need to make it more clear. Obviously, you don't hate every one of his selections, given some of the very high (and very meaningless) grades you gave some of them this year. Robinson, Slowey, Cam Johnson, for example.

So, "down boy." Get over the amateur psychology about all Niner fans believing that every pick becomes a star when he's selected by the Niners. It may be true for a few, but there are alot of very, very knowledgeable football minds on this board, and they are more than capable of evaluating football talent, even if they are also Niner fans.

You're wasting your time. MD is never wrong. But what do I know? I'm just Baalke's grandma.
[ Edited by Godsleftsock on May 6, 2012 at 5:01 PM ]
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Forming an opinion after the NIners draft is not an objective way to grade a player, since you already have a bias to root for the guy, and see the best in a player, because you desperately want them to succeed.

This is a trap that some fall into. Nobody on the board is bemoaning the fact that we didn't select Stephen Hill, Mohamed Sanu, Rueben Randle, Brian Quick. But, we know how the game is played, If one of these guys were selected, and not Jenkins, nobody would be saddened that we didn't take Jenkins. If you are curious how much support there was on the board for Jenkins before the draft, happy hunting. There was more interest in players like Tommy Streeter. In other words, some fans will defend to the death a Niners' selection, regardless of the selection. That is not an honest evaluation. I provide an honest evaluation that does not waver on whether the team selects a player or not.

Doubt my previous statements? Please review the thread last year after the draft on which QB drafted would be most successful. It was CK in a landslide. Fans are fans, I get it. However, to criticize someone's assessment of players in the draft and defend management, hardly knowing anything about a player going into the draft is shoddy.

I have been following Jenkins and watching him for years. That is not the "exact same way" as someone who scrambles for a draft guide after the pick to figure out who we got.
Uh, not so hard to find support for Jenkins on this board predraft. Theres a whole thread devoted to him which was started in January, well before the draft.

i actually wouldve perfered randle but that doesnt mean im not happy to get jenkins i just felt randle has speed is big bodied and pro ready

If there's one player who compared to Crabtree the most, it's Randle. Not a bad player at all, just wouldn't have added any missing dimension from the team. I had seen a lot of people characterize him as a deep threat, but I saw him as a possession type who had what I call "college speed" -- which looks slower in the NFL. I won't say pedestrian, but it is far from elite or near-elite speed. His average with some longer receptions I think was a little deceptive and his 4.55 timed speed was about what I expected. I think if he was a burner he would've been taken earlier. I think that forty time and a combine-worst 31-inch vertical (same at pro day too) among receivers (aside from Eric Page) hurt him.
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/05/02/insider-cousins-could-be-steal-for-skins

Posted May 02, 2012 @ 10:26 a.m. ET
By PFW staff
The following quotes are from NFL scouts, coaches and front-office personnel, speaking on the condition of anonymity.

I included the ones below with reviews of Zeitler, Decastro, Jenkins, Blackmon, Molk vs Konz, Alshon Jeffrey

Don't know how official these quotes are but interesting quotes.......a lot of which I agree with

DeCastro was not rated as high by everyone, and Zeitler tp some had a higher rating
Jenkins was the #2 on the board after Floyd (Blackmon had an attitude problem)
Molk was as good as Konz and went in the sixth round
Alshon Jeffrey was picked way too high


• "We had Kevin Zeitler higher on the board than (David) DeCastro, whose best asset is his initial quickness. He's not strong or powerful. I don't know where all the hype came from. If you had to take him where it sounded like you needed to take him, you might be wrong, I thought."

• "The biggest shocker, I thought, was how high (South Carolina's) Alshon Jeffery went. We had him in the sixth round. I don't think he can separate at our level or get off the press. He lost all that weight to run a good 40-time but it's not natural. He's not a worker. I thought it was very rich. We had (Shea) McClellin in the third (round)."

• "We did not have Justin Blackmon as our top receiver. We would not have taken him at all. We brought him in for a visit. He's not a bad kid. There's just an arrogance there. Michael Floyd was at the top of our board, and (Illinois WR)A.J. Jenkins was next."

• "(Michigan DT) David Molk is a good center if you can live with a 6-foot guy. Watch him against all the same players that (Peter) Konz faced and he outplayed every one of them. We wouldn't have drafted (Molk), but I liked the tape."
[ Edited by Oldschool9erfan on May 8, 2012 at 1:02 AM ]
Originally posted by Oldschool9erfan:
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/05/02/insider-cousins-could-be-steal-for-skins

Posted May 02, 2012 @ 10:26 a.m. ET
By PFW staff
The following quotes are from NFL scouts, coaches and front-office personnel, speaking on the condition of anonymity.

I included the ones below with reviews of Zeitler, Decastro, Jenkins, Blackmon, Molk vs Konz, Alshon Jeffrey

Don't know how official these quotes are but interesting quotes.......a lot of which I agree with

DeCastro was not rated as high by everyone, and Zeitler tp some had a higher rating
Jenkins was the #2 on the board after Floyd (Blackmon had an attitude problem)
Molk was as good as Konz and went in the sixth round
Alshon Jeffrey was picked way too high


&bull; "We had Kevin Zeitler higher on the board than (David) DeCastro, whose best asset is his initial quickness. He's not strong or powerful. I don't know where all the hype came from. If you had to take him where it sounded like you needed to take him, you might be wrong, I thought."

&bull; "The biggest shocker, I thought, was how high (South Carolina's) Alshon Jeffery went. We had him in the sixth round. I don't think he can separate at our level or get off the press. He lost all that weight to run a good 40-time but it's not natural. He's not a worker. I thought it was very rich. We had (Shea) McClellin in the third (round)."

&bull; "We did not have Justin Blackmon as our top receiver. We would not have taken him at all. We brought him in for a visit. He's not a bad kid. There's just an arrogance there. Michael Floyd was at the top of our board, and (Illinois WR)A.J. Jenkins was next."

&bull; "(Michigan DT) David Molk is a good center if you can live with a 6-foot guy. Watch him against all the same players that (Peter) Konz faced and he outplayed every one of them. We wouldn't have drafted (Molk), but I liked the tape."

I wouldn't read too much into completely isolated quotes. You could have one team saying that and thirty others saying the opposite.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I wouldn't read too much into completely isolated quotes. You could have one team saying that and thirty others saying the opposite.


on the other hand, the one team saying it could be right, and the other 30 teams wrong