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MadDog's Niners Draft Grade and Analysis for 2012 NFL Draft
Jul 23, 2018 at 4:29 PM
- Tman
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Jul 24, 2018 at 4:04 AM
- Giedi
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Originally posted by 9ers4eva:Good offenses get you into the playoffs. I believe the Giant's game was in the NFC championship game. If the offense wasn't good on 3rd downs that year, that team wouldn't even have smelled playoffs that year. The offense went from 24th (before Harbaugh) to 11th in Harbaugh's first year. Once you are in the playoffs it's a battle of QB's at that point and which QB is more elite and makes the lesser of mistakes. Only very good to elite offenses usually make the playoffs. Also at that point, pass rush really becomes important because in the playoffs, most of the time you are facing top notch *all pro level* to hall of fame level QB's. Merely *good* or *average* QB's usually don't make it to the playoffs. Walsh lost 4 playoff appearances ('87, '86', '85 and '83)- but that didn't make him a bad offensive coach.
So one drive against New Orleans negates the fact they coulrnt get one stinking 3rd down conversion against the Giants?
Good offenses are good on 3rd down and in the red zone. Things this offense was never good at outside of Kap making plays with his legs.
Jul 24, 2018 at 11:05 AM
- 9ers4eva
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Originally posted by Giedi:
Good offenses get you into the playoffs. I believe the Giant's game was in the NFC championship game. If the offense wasn't good on 3rd downs that year, that team wouldn't even have smelled playoffs that year. The offense went from 24th (before Harbaugh) to 11th in Harbaugh's first year. Once you are in the playoffs it's a battle of QB's at that point and which QB is more elite and makes the lesser of mistakes. Only very good to elite offenses usually make the playoffs. Also at that point, pass rush really becomes important because in the playoffs, most of the time you are facing top notch *all pro level* to hall of fame level QB's. Merely *good* or *average* QB's usually don't make it to the playoffs. Walsh lost 4 playoff appearances ('87, '86', '85 and '83)- but that didn't make him a bad offensive coach.
https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/3rd-down-efficiency/2011/
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestatsoff2011
24th to 11th in total yards. That happens when your defense dominates and gives you more possessions then everyone else. 11th in yards but 23rd in yards per drive shows an inconsistent offense.
Jul 26, 2018 at 9:43 AM
- Giedi
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Originally posted by 9ers4eva:Again, the key to the kind of offense that Harbaugh wanted to implement -needed a good TE to run the underneath routes. Vernon had the speed, but his hands were always suspect. The Air Coryell's key 3rd down cog is the TE (if you look at the WCO and also Kyle's offense - Tight End is always a premire position manned by a good reciever and blocker - just say Kittle). Walsh basically turned the vertical Air Coryell offense horizontally, and always had good TE's - Russ Francis, John Frank, Brent Jones. If you look at the TE position in both the WCO and Air Coryell they are critical positions that keep the offense going on 3rd downs. One of the things that Harbaugh was unable to do was develop Vernon into a better pass catching TE. Then you have a shmuck GM draft a stone handed TE in Vance McDonald and there you go - an offense that is inconsistent on third downs.
Originally posted by Giedi:
Good offenses get you into the playoffs. I believe the Giant's game was in the NFC championship game. If the offense wasn't good on 3rd downs that year, that team wouldn't even have smelled playoffs that year. The offense went from 24th (before Harbaugh) to 11th in Harbaugh's first year. Once you are in the playoffs it's a battle of QB's at that point and which QB is more elite and makes the lesser of mistakes. Only very good to elite offenses usually make the playoffs. Also at that point, pass rush really becomes important because in the playoffs, most of the time you are facing top notch *all pro level* to hall of fame level QB's. Merely *good* or *average* QB's usually don't make it to the playoffs. Walsh lost 4 playoff appearances ('87, '86', '85 and '83)- but that didn't make him a bad offensive coach.
https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/3rd-down-efficiency/2011/
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestatsoff2011
24th to 11th in total yards. That happens when your defense dominates and gives you more possessions then everyone else. 11th in yards but 23rd in yards per drive shows an inconsistent offense.
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... perceptions of the position changed forever in 1979 when Kellen Winslow Sr. arrived in San Diego from Missouri - all 6-feet-5, 250 pounds of him. He was large enough to block, but bigger, quicker and faster than the linebackers or safeties trying to cover him on pass routes. More important, he had the quick feet and hands of a receiver.
It was no coincidence Winslow was drafted by Don Coryell, one of the game's passing innovators. He would pair Winslow with quarterback Dan Fouts and receiver Charlie Joiner in the offense that became known as "Air Coryell." All three would go to Canton, but Winslow may have been the key.
"Quarterbacks always like the tight end because he's usually closer to the line - which means a shorter pass - and he's a much bigger target, and that combination means your margin for error is much greater," said Fouts, now a CBS Sports NFL analyst. "But when you have someone like Kellen Winslow -- or Jimmy Graham - then you have this mis-match across the field, and this league is all about matchups.
https://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2012/01/tight_ends_have_changed_the_wa.html