MadDog's Niners Draft Grade and Analysis for 2012 NFL Draft

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

How can you so vigorously defend Jenkins, when you just stated that you didn't know who Jenkins was at first? And, if you didn't know Jenkins, who was very well known by anyone that examines the draft, how can you even begin to break down how the Niners draft was superior to mine.

As for Jenkins, I spoke about him well more than any board member before the draft on the Draft Board. In fact, I was a big supporter of his offseason play and potential in the NFL, much more than my colleagues. That being said, I simply don't award him bonus points because the team selected him. He is graded where he is graded, regardless of the team selecting him. He does not gain superhuman powers because he straps on a 49ers jersey or if Baalke thinks he is great.

As for your breakdown of why the Niners' selections were superior to mine, you are entitled to defend them. At least defend it from a position of strength. But to state that you really dont know who the first rounder was, but their selections must be better than my selections, simply because Baalke and Harbaugh made their choices, is not a strong argument.

As for the argument that Baalke and Harbaugh have this whole thing figure out at RG, I present to you their plan for the 2011 season, a Day One starter named......Chilo Rachal. That was brilliant!!! So, Baalke and Harbaugh do not have divine powers, They have the potential to make errors in judgment, make stinky player personnel decisions, and draft players that should not have been selected.

Do you honestly buy the company line across the board? Have the Niners' management ever made an error?

With all due respect, I could ask you the same question. How are you, a fan who has no formal training, background in football or access to the vast resources of an NFL GM able to break down how superior his drafts/off-season's are in comparison to any NFL GM, let alone the reigning Executive of the Year? I am pretty sure you and OND both ascertain your information/opinions on players the exact same way (i.e. watching games, watching YouTube clips and reading scouts assessments), and that's fine because that is what I and every other fan do. The only difference is that maybe OND did more of his research after Jenkins was drafted by the Niners whereas you did yours before. So I fail to see how just because OND did the majority of his research after the draft discredits his breakdown of how Baalke's draft was superior to yours in his opinion It was a well thought out break down that put 2 differing ideologies up against one another and is just as valid as anything else posted around here.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
With all due respect, I could ask you the same question. How are you, a fan who has no formal training, background in football or access to the vast resources of an NFL GM able to break down how superior his drafts/off-season's are in comparison to any NFL GM, let alone the reigning Executive of the Year? I am pretty sure you and OND both ascertain your information/opinions on players the exact same way (i.e. watching games, watching YouTube clips and reading scouts assessments), and that's fine because that is what I and every other fan do. The only difference is that maybe OND did more of his research after Jenkins was drafted by the Niners whereas you did yours before. So I fail to see how just because OND did the majority of his research after the draft discredits his breakdown of how Baalke's draft was superior to yours in his opinion It was a well thought out break down that put 2 differing ideologies up against one another and is just as valid as anything else posted around here.

Forming an opinion after the NIners draft is not an objective way to grade a player, since you already have a bias to root for the guy, and see the best in a player, because you desperately want them to succeed.

This is a trap that some fall into. Nobody on the board is bemoaning the fact that we didn't select Stephen Hill, Mohamed Sanu, Rueben Randle, Brian Quick. But, we know how the game is played, If one of these guys were selected, and not Jenkins, nobody would be saddened that we didn't take Jenkins. If you are curious how much support there was on the board for Jenkins before the draft, happy hunting. There was more interest in players like Tommy Streeter. In other words, some fans will defend to the death a Niners' selection, regardless of the selection. That is not an honest evaluation. I provide an honest evaluation that does not waver on whether the team selects a player or not.

Doubt my previous statements? Please review the thread last year after the draft on which QB drafted would be most successful. It was CK in a landslide. Fans are fans, I get it. However, to criticize someone's assessment of players in the draft and defend management, hardly knowing anything about a player going into the draft is shoddy.

I have been following Jenkins and watching him for years. That is not the "exact same way" as someone who scrambles for a draft guide after the pick to figure out who we got.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Forming an opinion after the NIners draft is not an objective way to grade a player, since you already have a bias to root for the guy, and see the best in a player, because you desperately want them to succeed.

This is a trap that some fall into. Nobody on the board is bemoaning the fact that we didn't select Stephen Hill, Mohamed Sanu, Rueben Randle, Brian Quick. But, we know how the game is played, If one of these guys were selected, and not Jenkins, nobody would be saddened that we didn't take Jenkins. If you are curious how much support there was on the board for Jenkins before the draft, happy hunting. There was more interest in players like Tommy Streeter. In other words, some fans will defend to the death a Niners' selection, regardless of the selection. That is not an honest evaluation. I provide an honest evaluation that does not waver on whether the team selects a player or not.

Doubt my previous statements? Please review the thread last year after the draft on which QB drafted would be most successful. It was CK in a landslide. Fans are fans, I get it. However, to criticize someone's assessment of players in the draft and defend management, hardly knowing anything about a player going into the draft is shoddy.

I have been following Jenkins and watching him for years. That is not the "exact same way" as someone who scrambles for a draft guide after the pick to figure out who we got.

you know what happens if you dare question the head coach and front office around here

people b***hing about right guard... the most worthless position in all of football and people are complaining.

this line already consists of 3 first round picks and a pro bowler at center, and you guys want another 1st round pick at guard?! this is f**kin' ridiculous. even a street fa would have been better than rachal, so who f**kin' cares? the team got a solid player in looney in the 4th which is a decent round to pick a RIGHT GUARD (for christ's sake this position is really bla).

what did the team do instead? they got a wide receiver, which is easily the biggest need after quarterback (assuming that kaepernick isn't the answer). crabtree is a #2, we know that by now, moss is at best a one-year solution (if he makes the team, which i am not convinced of), manningham is another #2 at best, well and the rest is forgetable. and since we all know that gore is on the downside of his career it was obvious that they had to pick a running back. paired with hunter, james will form a competent duo for the next years. the team was slow on offense last year. jenkins and james are fast. they add another dimension to this offense. thus, these picks filled needs, while adding additional abilities, and they were not overdrafted. jenkins would have been picked by st. louis and james with his freakish athleticism and great production was clearly worth a very late second round pick.

the rest of the picks? not one pick which didn't fill a need. not one pick which has a major red flag in any kind of respect. and a s**tload of additional picks next year. arguing in such a way against this draft *is* arrogant; and objectively so.

my *subjective* take of this draft is simply: f**kIN BRILLIANT.
* got the players they wanted
* drafted only needs
* got additional draftpicks
* no questionable personalities
* added speed on offense

yes, this draft was f**kin' A.

]

Originally posted by cciowa:

you know what happens if you dare question the head coach and front office around here

Can't speak for others, but that is certainly not what I was referring to. This seems to be the common misconception when people get on MD. It has absolutely nothing to do with disagreeing with the FO, at least for me. I could care less if someone disagrees with the FO. I certainly have.

Originally posted by zugschef:
* no questionable personalities

I don't know all the legal outcomes but James was involved in a domestic issue a few years ago

The only strike against the "intangibles" is his 2010 arrest in a domestic dispute with an ex-girlfriend. The confrontation escalated and James and while the initial charges sounded very bad, he eventually plead guilty to physical harassment.

Oregon running back LaMichael James was arrested by the Springfield, Ore., police department in the early hours of Wednesday following a fight with his girlfriend and charged with strangulation, two counts of assault in the fourth degree and two counts of physical harrassment.All three charges are misdemeanors. The assault charge could carry as much as a year of jail time.James pled not guilty to all five counts Wednesday and was released into house arrest Thursday night. James, whose first court appearance is March 24, will be required to wear an ankle monitoring device.According to the police report, James' girlfriend alleged he grabbed her by the neck and threw her to the ground in a parking lot, resulting in abrasions and pain in her neck.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Forming an opinion after the NIners draft is not an objective way to grade a player, since you already have a bias to root for the guy, and see the best in a player, because you desperately want them to succeed.

This is a trap that some fall into. Nobody on the board is bemoaning the fact that we didn't select Stephen Hill, Mohamed Sanu, Rueben Randle, Brian Quick. But, we know how the game is played, If one of these guys were selected, and not Jenkins, nobody would be saddened that we didn't take Jenkins. If you are curious how much support there was on the board for Jenkins before the draft, happy hunting. There was more interest in players like Tommy Streeter. In other words, some fans will defend to the death a Niners' selection, regardless of the selection. That is not an honest evaluation. I provide an honest evaluation that does not waver on whether the team selects a player or not.

Doubt my previous statements? Please review the thread last year after the draft on which QB drafted would be most successful. It was CK in a landslide. Fans are fans, I get it. However, to criticize someone's assessment of players in the draft and defend management, hardly knowing anything about a player going into the draft is shoddy.

I have been following Jenkins and watching him for years. That is not the "exact same way" as someone who scrambles for a draft guide after the pick to figure out who we got.

If you refrained from remarks such as those highlighted in bold, this discussion would be more civil.

I find your charge that some fans are not honest and your implied assertion that you are honest to be particularly irksome.

First, the charge borders on the banal as there can always be some fans who are not honest.
Second, instead of painting with a broad brush, challenge those individuals who you feel are not honest.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Yeah, those 6'2" OLBs are just terrible. Von Miller, Elvis Dumervil, Rodney Harrison, etc. LOL.

Baalke and Harbaugh like to draft a special teams guy once in awhile. Colin Jones last year. Fleming this year, and his ability to play OLB is a plus, added depth at the position.

"Good football player, athletic, quick, productive." YOUR WORDS! That's not value for a 5th rounder???? If you don't see it, maybe you're not looking.

Your argument is that there were better players on the board when they made this pick (at #165, when you had Fleming at #168 on your own board).

So, tell us: what better OLBs were on the board at that point? Give us some names. What OLB did you have listed higher on your board? (Cameron Johnson doesn't count, given the fact that he's a Niner now, after all.) And please don't try to pass off somebody at a different position, since its clear that the Niners were looking for OLB depth at that point.

*Von Miller plays in a 43 defense- 6'2 5/8"
*Rodney Harrison played safety for the Patriots
*Fleming is 6'1 1/4"
*Big Board not the same as a value board
*Tim Fugger better 34 OLB prospect
*No requirement to go OLB in the 5th round; better players at better positions available

Originally posted by buck:
If you refrained from remarks such as those highlighted in bold, this discussion would be more civil.

I find your charge that some fans are not honest and your implied assertion that you are honest to be particularly irksome.

First, the charge borders on the banal as there can always be some fans who are not honest.
Second, instead of painting with a broad brush, challenge those individuals who you feel are not honest.

If you are skeptical, I encourage you to go ahead and post a "Who will be a better NFL guard: DeCastro or Looney"? Pre-draft, this would probably be a 99%-1% vote for DeCastro, and people would be relentlessly slamming the poll as the stupidest thing they have ever seen. Post draft, my guess would be 60%-40% DeCastro, but there would be a lot of anti-DeCastro sentiment. We saw the same results last year with the post-draft, "Who will be the best NFL quarterback from this class?" thread. Want to take a wild guess who won?

If DeCastro was selected by the Niners, this board would be fighting to get in as many DeCastro Pro-Bowl Bound threads as possible, and people would never even think about Looney. I'm not so sure there are more than ten people who knew Looney going into the draft. You could run a similar thread for any pre and post draft WR thread on who will be the best WR in the draft. Run that one for fun as well.

The point being that fans desperately want their players to succeed, and this alters their ability to make a fair judgment on a player. It is not an honest way to evaluate talent and future success. It is not criminal, it is human nature. But, it is not accurate.

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Forming an opinion after the NIners draft is not an objective way to grade a player, since you already have a bias to root for the guy, and see the best in a player, because you desperately want them to succeed.

This is a trap that some fall into. Nobody on the board is bemoaning the fact that we didn't select Stephen Hill, Mohamed Sanu, Rueben Randle, Brian Quick. But, we know how the game is played, If one of these guys were selected, and not Jenkins, nobody would be saddened that we didn't take Jenkins. If you are curious how much support there was on the board for Jenkins before the draft, happy hunting. There was more interest in players like Tommy Streeter. In other words, some fans will defend to the death a Niners' selection, regardless of the selection. That is not an honest evaluation. I provide an honest evaluation that does not waver on whether the team selects a player or not.

Doubt my previous statements? Please review the thread last year after the draft on which QB drafted would be most successful. It was CK in a landslide. Fans are fans, I get it. However, to criticize someone's assessment of players in the draft and defend management, hardly knowing anything about a player going into the draft is shoddy.

I have been following Jenkins and watching him for years. That is not the "exact same way" as someone who scrambles for a draft guide after the pick to figure out who we got.

If you refrained from remarks such as those highlighted in bold, this discussion would be more civil.

I find your charge that some fans are not honest and your implied assertion that you are honest to be particularly irksome.

First, the charge borders on the banal as there can always be some fans who are not honest.
Second, instead of painting with a broad brush, challenge those individuals who you feel are not honest.

man i dont think he is saying fans are dishonest. just that we as a fan base are more likely to believe in a pick because we are fans!! we love this team and we want our draft picks to succeed no matter what. therefore the opinions that we create are bias. even those of us who go and scout/research the player after the pick are going to create a bias opinion because the player is already on the team, his flaws are less of a concern because we believe in the coaching staff.



where as some fans, like maddog, who study the draft and college system almost religiously will question some picks due to a belief in their own scouting abilities and what their scouting of a player has told them about that player. they stick with their rankings regardless of where a player is drafted.

now you can argue that maddogs " honest" opinion of players is bias due to the fact that he wants his rankings to be correct but i feel that, regardless of who a player is drafted by , maddog gives an honest evaluation of the player.


i think its a testament to the new Front office, and shows just how bad the previous Front office's of this franchise have been.
That after 1 successful draft/Free agency and a brilliant season a majority of the fan base is developing a "blind faith " in the FO. Not necessarily a bad thing....

but you have to ask..... would we be debating that we didnt select jenkins if we had taken randle or hill?? probably not, that doesnt mean its a bad pick or that maddogs ranking is correct, just if a lot of us are "honest" myself included we had no idea the 49ers were going to select jenkins but due to our belief in the front office we now firmly believe he was the correct choice, and that he will undoubtedly succeed, due to our belief in the front office and coaching staff to select the right players for this team.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by buck:
If you refrained from remarks such as those highlighted in bold, this discussion would be more civil.

I find your charge that some fans are not honest and your implied assertion that you are honest to be particularly irksome.

First, the charge borders on the banal as there can always be some fans who are not honest.
Second, instead of painting with a broad brush, challenge those individuals who you feel are not honest.

If you are skeptical, I encourage you to go ahead and post a "Who will be a better NFL guard: DeCastro or Looney"? Pre-draft, this would probably be a 99%-1% vote for DeCastro, and people would be relentlessly slamming the poll as the stupidest thing they have ever seen. Post draft, my guess would be 60%-40% DeCastro, but there would be a lot of anti-DeCastro sentiment. We saw the same results last year with the post-draft, "Who will be the best NFL quarterback from this class?" thread. Want to take a wild guess who won?

If DeCastro was selected by the Niners, this board would be fighting to get in as many DeCastro Pro-Bowl Bound threads as possible, and people would never even think about Looney. I'm not so sure there are more than ten people who knew Looney going into the draft. You could run a similar thread for any pre and post draft WR thread on who will be the best WR in the draft. Run that one for fun as well.

The point being that fans desperately want their players to succeed, and this alters their ability to make a fair judgment on a player. It is not an honest way to evaluate talent and future success. It is not criminal, it is human nature. But, it is not accurate.

I am skeptical. I followed your suggestion and created the poll. "Who will be a better NFL guard: DeCastro or Looney"?

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/nfl-draft/165578-who-better-nfl-guard-decastro-looney/#post1

You are a fan.

I strongly urge you to curb or control that mind altering desperation that limits your ability to make a fair judgement of a player.

I understand that it is difficult for you to do this.

But, if you want members to trust your talent evaluation, you must learn to control this desperation that so limits your integrity and clouds your judgement .

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Yeah, those 6'2" OLBs are just terrible. Von Miller, Elvis Dumervil, Rodney Harrison, etc. LOL.

Baalke and Harbaugh like to draft a special teams guy once in awhile. Colin Jones last year. Fleming this year, and his ability to play OLB is a plus, added depth at the position.

"Good football player, athletic, quick, productive." YOUR WORDS! That's not value for a 5th rounder???? If you don't see it, maybe you're not looking.

Your argument is that there were better players on the board when they made this pick (at #165, when you had Fleming at #168 on your own board).

So, tell us: what better OLBs were on the board at that point? Give us some names. What OLB did you have listed higher on your board? (Cameron Johnson doesn't count, given the fact that he's a Niner now, after all.) And please don't try to pass off somebody at a different position, since its clear that the Niners were looking for OLB depth at that point.

*Von Miller plays in a 43 defense- 6'2 5/8"
*Rodney Harrison played safety for the Patriots
*Fleming is 6'1 1/4"
*Big Board not the same as a value board
*Tim Fugger better 34 OLB prospect
*No requirement to go OLB in the 5th round; better players at better positions available

Sorry, I meant James Harison--OLB for Pittsburgh--6'0" all pro. Remember him. Or is he just one of the "acceptions" you referred to in your earlier post.

No requirement for any team to pick any position at any time.

But criticizing a team for their selection in a later round, of a player at a position of need, even if its only a need for depth, by claiming that there are "better players at better postiions available" seems unfair, at best, and somewhat hypocritical.

Thank you again for creating this thread. Its been useful, to me, to compare your "grade and analysis" and your "mock" to what the Niners actually did in the draft.

I don't believe that any of my posts have specifically claimed that any of your proposed selections were "F" type grades--just that I could see how the Niners would take the pick they selected instead, given their needs. They certainly don't need me to "defend" them, and I'm not trying to do so. I'm just making the comparisons for purposes of my own edification--and your thread has been the perfect foil.

Nevertheless, it appears that you are becoming more and more agitated by this discussion. There is nothing anyone could ever say that might convince you of the merit of any of Baalke's selections. He's Niner's front office/management, so he must be wrong in your eyes. That's fine. Its your opinion and you're welcome to it.

You can storm and rage at Baalke all you want. Ultimately, we get to see how the Niners selections actually perform out on the field--the ultimate test of the quality of their selections.

It's just too bad that you can't appreciate to any degree the thought that Baalke and Harbaugh put into their selections, even those, like Fleming, that appear to coincide with your own evaluation.

So I will leave you where I found you. Posting about "missed golden opportunities" that really didn't exist.

Howling at the moon, so to speak, like a MadDog.

Thanks again, I enjoyed it while it remained civil.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
As for my draft board, based on my best player available board, in a straight up, no trade draft, I had:
Round One- Peter Konz, C/G
Round Two- Mohamed Sanu, WR
Round Three- Brandon Thompson, NT
Round Four- Malik Jackson, DE
Round Five- Vick Ballard, RB
Round Six- Antonio Allen, SS
Round Seven- Derrius Brooks, CB

Well just for fun, like we did last year, lets compare your posted "mock" draft to Baalke's actual draft in light of what actually occurred. You and Baalke, "mano a mano". Or "mano a perro" if you prefer.

And since you did not grade Baalke based just on the picks, but threw in trade speculation as well, that's got to apply to your "mock" as well.

Round 1--Peter Konz. C/G Drafted in the first round by you, but all 32 teams passed on him in the first round and he was taken by the Falcons at #55. He's 6'5" and 315 out of Wisconsin, and in previous posts you have expressed that you rated him very highly, espcecially at C. In other posts you have been highly critical of Jonathan Goodwin, the team's center who was a two time pro bowler (with the Saints).

Baalke's Round 1 pick was A.J. Jenkins at #30. A very fast, knowledgeable, productive WR with excellent hands and route running skills. Hard to find fault with taking him at #30, especially when guys like Blackmon and Floyd were already taken. Perhaps this is why you spend so much time with the speculative "they missed on a golden opportunity to move up and take DeCasto" argument. Its impossible to argue that they should have moved back to take Jenkins--since there's evidence that the Rams would have taken him at #33.
So head up, you would have taken a C that was clearly overrated by you, that would have been available in the mid to late second round, and Baalke took an underrated WR just before a rival would have snagged him. Advantage: Baalke

Round 2--Mohamed Sanu. WR drafted in the Second by you, actually taken in the Third round by the Bengals at #83 overall. He's 6'2" and 215 lbs. A possession type WR, who lacks the speed necessary to be a deep threat, but is very capable of catching in traffic and downfield blocking--characteristics that you have previously posted you believe the Niners value (who wouldn't). Trouble with the pick is that he's really just a mirror image, at best, of Crabtree--who's also 6'2" and 215ish, without the elite speed. Sanu, however, also lacks the extra long reach that Crabtree has.
Baalke used the second round pick, #61, to take LMJ, an explosively quick RB who adds a speed dimension out of the backfield that the Niners have been lacking for at least the past 8 years. Combined with the speedy Jenkins, the Niners now have two new playmakers who will increase the team's effectiveness on third down and short yardage situations. This will improve the entire OL play by making it less likely that the 5 OL will have to face 8 an 9 man defensive fronts in those situations.
Head to head: Advantage Baalke again. You did not increase the WR depth at all by adding a new or different dimension, but simply got a clone of Crabs.

Round 3--Brandon Thompson. NT out of Clemson, he's 6'2" and 314 lbs who was taken at #93 by the Bengals. He is, again, a virtual clone of a guy already on the Niners, Ian Williams, who signed with the Niners last season as an UDFA, and played NT at Notre Dame. So you spend a 3rd rounder on a guy who's gonna be fourth on the depth chart behind Sopoaga, RJF, and Williams. Seems like a wasted pick.
Baalke used the Third Round to pick Joe Looney at #117. He will compete for RG with Kilgore, Person, and Boone, and will, according to Baalke, someday be a starter. Considering the fact that your NT was not even on the board when Baalke selected Looney, the fact that Looney fell a little due to an untimely foot injury (and was actually rated as a second round value), and the fact that this pick addresses a position of actual, present need--
Head to head: Advantage Baalke again.

Round 4--Malik Jackson. DT out of Tennessee, he's 6'4" and 284, drafted by the Broncos, probably as a 3-4 DE, with the #137 pick overall. Again, he appears to be a clone of a guy already on the Niner's roster, Demarcus Dobbs. If the Niners had taken Jackson he'd be behind Justin Smith, Ray MacDonald, Takuafu, RJF, and Dobbs. In other words, a long shot to even make the roster. Again, why would the Niners want to take him in the Fourth to line up behind all those other DL guys? Seems, again, like a wasted pick.
Baalke used the Fourth round to pick Darious Fleming, a 6'2", 245 lb OLB out of Notre Dame, at #165. You described him above as "a good football player, athletic, fast, and productive." He plays ST, and will back up at OLB--where the Niners took a risk last year in carrying only 3 OLB. Fleming fills a need for depth and will contribute on ST. What's not to like.
Advantage: Baalke, again.

Round 5--Vick Ballard. RB out of Miss. St. who is 5'10" and 219 lbs that was drafted by the Colts at #170 overall. Strong and tough, but no elite speed or explosiveness, he would, again, have to compete with Gore, Hunter, Jacobs, Dixon and Cartwright. Adds nothing that Hunter and Dixon don't already provide, Seems like a wasted pick.
Baalke used the 5th round to take Trent Robinson at #180, a safety who's projected to backup Goldson and Whitner. Somewhat undersized, he's tough and has excellent coverage skills, and may find his way onto the field in nickel and dime situations, where coverage skills are more important than playing in the box. You gave him an A grade.
Advantage: Baalke.

Round 6--Antonio Allen. SS taken by the Jets at #242 overall, in the 7th round. He's 6'1", 210 and has the size expected of a SS. He fell, however to the 7th round, and you're taking him in the 6th. Doesn't appear to be a great value.
Baalke used the 6th round, pick #199 overall, to take Slowey, a small school OL with excellent strength, speed, and nastiness, who's probably gonna need a year on the PS to get a little bigger. You give him an A grade.
Advantage: this one might be even, depending on how these two guys develop over the next couple years.

Round 7--Darrious Brooks. CB out of W. Kentucky, he's 5'10" and 192 who went undrafted. All 32 teams passed on him in all 7 rounds.
Baalke used the 7th round to pick Cameron Johnson at #237, who surprisingly fell precipitously in the draft, but who appears to offer great value at OLB. You give him an A grade.
Advantage: Baalke.

Now, if we take the hypothetical "trade up" "golden opportunity" scenario that you use to criticize Baalke, and apply it to your "mock" draft, it just gets worse. You'd have to subtract Konz AND Brandon Thompson, and add DeCastro, leaving you with one guy who might make the team, and start--DeCastro--and five other guys who would struggle to even make the roster.

Your "mock" does nothing to address the now very apparent preexisting problem with the Niner offense--the lack of speed.

Swapping DeCastro in for Snyder is not gonna make the OL better on short yardage downs when faced with 8 and 9 men fronts. The OL last year got swamped and overwhelmed in those situations, frequently. In retrospect, it was the most glaring problem with the team last season. The additions of Jenkins, LMJ, and Looney on the other hand will force defenses to rethink the "stacking the box, run-blitz" attitude after they get burned a few times by Jenkins on a slant, or LMJ out fo the backfield.

Thank goodness we now have a HC who is capable of identifying the problem and a GM capable of addressing it in the draft.

Compare that to Singletary's response to the same problem: "Give me some offensive linemen with bite." Sorta what you're proposing with the "draft Konz" or "draft Decastro" draft strategy. BTW, how'd that turn out for Singletary? Oh, right.

So thanks again for posting this whole "draft grade and analysis" thread. Its been a great way to help think about what Baalke and Harbaugh have done in this year's draft.

Oldninerdude you are becoming my favorite poster because we seem to have similar opinions. Your rebuttal of MadDog is right on.

The main points being MadDog's mock doesn't address the speed issue which Baalke addressed which our team was seriously lacking. A lot of the guys that he picks in his mocks seem too similar to guys the niners have already.

Ian Williams will be good, he obviously had enough talent that the Niners couldn't put him on the practice squad. (It doesn't matter that he wasn't drafted.)

Also Slowey will be in the similar boat, I don't think the niners are going to want to move him to the practice squad because of the same problem and that other teams might snatch him up.

Looks like Looney might be a little more pro ready than we think (see article below).

http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2012/05/newberry-looney-has-a-leg-up-on-most-rookies.html

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Forming an opinion after the NIners draft is not an objective way to grade a player, since you already have a bias to root for the guy, and see the best in a player, because you desperately want them to succeed.

This is a trap that some fall into. Nobody on the board is bemoaning the fact that we didn't select Stephen Hill, Mohamed Sanu, Rueben Randle, Brian Quick. But, we know how the game is played, If one of these guys were selected, and not Jenkins, nobody would be saddened that we didn't take Jenkins. If you are curious how much support there was on the board for Jenkins before the draft, happy hunting. There was more interest in players like Tommy Streeter. In other words, some fans will defend to the death a Niners' selection, regardless of the selection. That is not an honest evaluation. I provide an honest evaluation that does not waver on whether the team selects a player or not.

Doubt my previous statements? Please review the thread last year after the draft on which QB drafted would be most successful. It was CK in a landslide. Fans are fans, I get it. However, to criticize someone's assessment of players in the draft and defend management, hardly knowing anything about a player going into the draft is shoddy.

I have been following Jenkins and watching him for years. That is not the "exact same way" as someone who scrambles for a draft guide after the pick to figure out who we got.

I am DIE HARD niner fan and I love the draft, but I don't have the time to review all players before the actual draft. But now I've watched Jenkins against tape of the other WR (Wright, Hill, Sanu, Streeter, Blackmon, Floyd)......it's surprising that he wasn't rated higher. Jenkins is not just a "speed" guy, he is productive, got the speed, has decent height and didn't have the best Qb's throwing to him.

People talked a lot about Streeter and Hill because they are big and 6 4 and 215 and really fast (4.36), but neither of those guys have hardly any college production compared to Jenkins. Those guys wouldn't be in the conversation at all except for the combine. Even I thought the Niners could have used Streeter in the 5th round, but Jenkins is a much better prospect. If you listen to the draft gurus (mayock and kiper) said Streeter and hill are superraw and only really run the 9 route. so that is MASSIVE gamble you are taking. Jenkins is way more pro ready than those guys.

I agree to some extent that no matter who we pick we are going to be biased. But the true football fans on the board can watch college tape and make their own decisions give us a little credit.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Forming an opinion after the NIners draft is not an objective way to grade a player, since you already have a bias to root for the guy, and see the best in a player, because you desperately want them to succeed.

This is a trap that some fall into. Nobody on the board is bemoaning the fact that we didn't select Stephen Hill, Mohamed Sanu, Rueben Randle, Brian Quick. But, we know how the game is played, If one of these guys were selected, and not Jenkins, nobody would be saddened that we didn't take Jenkins. If you are curious how much support there was on the board for Jenkins before the draft, happy hunting. There was more interest in players like Tommy Streeter. In other words, some fans will defend to the death a Niners' selection, regardless of the selection. That is not an honest evaluation. I provide an honest evaluation that does not waver on whether the team selects a player or not.

Doubt my previous statements? Please review the thread last year after the draft on which QB drafted would be most successful. It was CK in a landslide. Fans are fans, I get it. However, to criticize someone's assessment of players in the draft and defend management, hardly knowing anything about a player going into the draft is shoddy.

I have been following Jenkins and watching him for years. That is not the "exact same way" as someone who scrambles for a draft guide after the pick to figure out who we got.

The irony of this post just made my brain explode