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MadDog's Niners Draft Grade and Analysis

Nobody care what grades u give.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Thanks for the kind words, and glad you see what I was trying to do.

I admit that I, too, wanted Fleener and was surprised at the selection of Jenkins in the first. I did not know who Jenkins was at first, although I was sure the Niners would pick someone other than what we all expected. Trying to figure out what they were up to in this draft has been fun and enlightening.

I have no idea how well Jenkins or LMJ, or any other pick will perform this coming season. I am, however, more and more impressed with Harbaugh and Baalke and their respective abilities. If this draft lives up to my newfound expectations--cures even some of the short yardage woes we're so used to seeing for so long--then next season is gonna be another very pleasant surprise. Harbaugh's team's gonna crush some opponents.

How can you so vigorously defend Jenkins, when you just stated that you didn't know who Jenkins was at first? And, if you didn't know Jenkins, who was very well known by anyone that examines the draft, how can you even begin to break down how the Niners draft was superior to mine.

As for Jenkins, I spoke about him well more than any board member before the draft on the Draft Board. In fact, I was a big supporter of his offseason play and potential in the NFL, much more than my colleagues. That being said, I simply don't award him bonus points because the team selected him. He is graded where he is graded, regardless of the team selecting him. He does not gain superhuman powers because he straps on a 49ers jersey or if Baalke thinks he is great.

As for your breakdown of why the Niners' selections were superior to mine, you are entitled to defend them. At least defend it from a position of strength. But to state that you really dont know who the first rounder was, but their selections must be better than my selections, simply because Baalke and Harbaugh made their choices, is not a strong argument.

As for the argument that Baalke and Harbaugh have this whole thing figure out at RG, I present to you their plan for the 2011 season, a Day One starter named......Chilo Rachal. That was brilliant!!! So, Baalke and Harbaugh do not have divine powers, They have the potential to make errors in judgment, make stinky player personnel decisions, and draft players that should not have been selected.

Do you honestly buy the company line across the board? Have the Niners' management ever made an error?
  • Amir
  • Veteran
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Maddog, I have nothing against you. You obviously watch a lot of college football but:

You have NO access to the medical reports of each player
You have NO access to psychological report of each player
You have NO contact with any player therefore you have no access to their interview
Only video access you have is from the feed from the broadcast and I doubt you are able to watch EVERY single game and evaluate each player on a weekly basis

You certainly have the right to have your opinion and I think it's great you do this every year. However, please excuse me when I say that your evaluations are worthless without having the data I posted above.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Round 1--Peter Konz. C/G Drafted in the first round by you, but all 32 teams passed on him in the first round

Baalke's Round 1 pick was A.J. Jenkins at #30. since there's evidence that the Rams would have taken him at #33.
Pretty much the entire NFL passed on Jenkins in the first, not a knock on the kid but a fact. Just because the Rams were going to take him doesn't mean a whole lot of s**t to me...should we base our draft off the Rams board? Thats like saying Seattle is smart by taking Irvin that high because other teams were high on him. And I take the "comments from inside knowledge of war rooms" with a grain of salt, the Rams had 3 2nd round picks...we don't know their board.
Round 2--Mohamed Sanu. Trouble with the pick is that he's really just a mirror image, at best, of Crabtree--who's also 6'2" and 215ish, without the elite speed. Sanu, however, also lacks the extra long reach that Crabtree has.
Baalke used the second round pick, #61, to take LMJ, an explosively quick RB who adds a speed dimension out of the backfield that the Niners have been lacking for at least the past 8 years. You did not increase the WR depth at all by adding a new or different dimension, but simply got a clone of Crabs.
A clone of Crabs would be a always injured baby who doesn't play good in big games, that is not Sanu. Just because they share the same height/weight doesn't mean they are the same player.
Round 3--Brandon Thompson. NT out of Clemson, he's 6'2" and 314 lbs who was taken at #93 by the Bengals. He is, again, a virtual clone of a guy already on the Niners, Ian Williams
Joe Looney at #117. He will compete for RG with Kilgore, Person, and Boone, and will, according to Baalke, someday be a starter. Considering the fact that your NT was not even on the board when Baalke selected Looney, the fact that Looney fell a little due to an untimely foot injury (and was actually rated as a second round value), and the fact that this pick addresses a position of actual, present need--
Head to head: Advantage Baalke again.
Again thinking he's a "clone". Ian Williams is an UDFA who the NFL saw having no draft value, Thompson is the better athlete...having draft value. If we are going to skip over guys because they look similar then Trent is a massive idiot. And both NT's on the roster are without contracts after this season.

Boone is not going to RG. If you laugh at the "expert" rankings, why site them to make an argument. Crabs was injured but the talent was too go to pass up...with Looney that wasn't the case and the ratings were obviously wrong.
Round 4--Malik Jackson. DT out of Tennessee, he's 6'4" and 284, drafted by the Broncos, probably as a 3-4 DE, with the #137 pick overall. Again, he appears to be a clone of a guy already on the Niner's roster, Demarcus Dobbs. If the Niners had taken Jackson he'd be behind Justin Smith, Ray MacDonald, Takuafu, RJF, and Dobbs. In other words, a long shot to even make the roster. Again, why would the Niners want to take him in the Fourth to line up behind all those other DL guys? Seems, again, like a wasted pick.
Baalke used the Fourth round to pick Darious Fleming, a 6'2", 245 lb OLB out of Notre Dame, at #165. You described him above as "a good football player, athletic, fast, and productive." He plays ST, and will back up at OLB--where the Niners took a risk last year in carrying only 3 OLB. Fleming fills a need for depth and will contribute on ST. What's not to like.
Advantage: Baalke, again.
And again the clone argument. We need to get better everywhere, not sure why that is hard to understand. A 4th round pick should make the roster and the talent should be able to beat out the other backups. Who is the main DE if RJF is at NT......? No clear cut player means we dont have one.

Round 5--Vick Ballard. RB out of Miss. St. who is 5'10" and 219 lbs that was drafted by the Colts at #170 overall. Strong and tough, but no elite speed or explosiveness, he would, again, have to compete with Gore, Hunter, Jacobs, Dixon and Cartwright. Adds nothing that Hunter and Dixon don't already provide, Seems like a wasted pick.
Baalke used the 5th round to take Trent Robinson at #180, a safety who's projected to backup Goldson and Whitner. Somewhat undersized, he's tough and has excellent coverage skills, and may find his way onto the field in nickel and dime situations, where coverage skills are more important than playing in the box. You gave him an A grade.
Advantage: Baalke.

Dixon is trash at RB and Jacobs is a short term deal and may get cut now anyways. You do need power to move the ball and having a young option is not a bad idea. Chances are we add the same type of player in a year or two to replace Gore. Midget FS, time will tell.

Round 6--Antonio Allen. SS taken by the Jets at #242 overall, in the 7th round. He's 6'1", 210 and has the size expected of a SS. He fell, however to the 7th round, and you're taking him in the 6th. Doesn't appear to be a great value.
Baalke used the 6th round, pick #199 overall, to take Slowey, a small school OL with excellent strength, speed, and nastiness, who's probably gonna need a year on the PS to get a little bigger. You give him an A grade.
Advantage: this one might be even, depending on how these two guys develop over the next couple years.
At this point in the draft its hard to speculate how far guys will fall, Slowey may of fallen to the 7th as well. And some of these guys will get cut so thinking every prospect we draft is great while any alternative is not is a bit homerish and not thinking objectively.


Round 7--Darrious Brooks. CB out of W. Kentucky, he's 5'10" and 192 who went undrafted. All 32 teams passed on him in all 7 rounds.
Baalke used the 7th round to pick Cameron Johnson at #237, who surprisingly fell precipitously in the draft, but who appears to offer great value at OLB. You give him an A grade.
Advantage: Baalke.
Again Johnson may of gone undrafted had we not taken him. And does it matter what other teams do...should we be basing our draft off of other teams, because they say its good? Lots of teams passed on lots of guys...we passed on guys who will turn out to be great.

The additions of Jenkins, LMJ, and Looney on the other hand will force defenses to rethink the "stacking the box, run-blitz" attitude after they get burned a few times by Jenkins on a slant, or LMJ out fo the backfield.

You don't even know if Looney will be starting so to assume he will force any team to do anything is pure speculation....and probably wrong. Take a good look at the roster and look to next year and you will probably see DE-NT-WR get drafted, even though we have "clones" of those guys right now. Trent will make mistakes, he is human. Following him blindly and thinking every pick is the best pick and not questioning him or at least looking at the other alternatives is not what this site is about. Critiquing players and the FO and discussing them is why we are here. You guys act like the FO is infallible and that's not the case, but going after posters who disagree with them like they did something wrong is dumb. I prefer a wait and see approach but crowning every pick in this draft better then any other alternative shows a lack of knowledge.
Not saying that Baalke is infallible, or that every pick he made is gonna be great. Just comparing MD's "mock" draft to the Niner's draft in light of what actually occurred on draft weekend.

An exercise in thinking through the Niner's draft strategy, just using MDs "mock" as a tool for comparison purposes.

MD's mock contains a number of excellent players who will undoubtedly have some success in the NFL. Don't really care--more interested in trying to figure out the Niner's thinking process in this draft. The Niners, after all, are the ones who actually field a team in the NFL.

Try rereading my post from that point of view. Don't assume its an attack on MD's post, cause its not intended to be.

Critical reading skills are critical.

A comparison that blasts every pick he makes and calling them all wrong. He gets s**t for the Aldon comments (and he should) but JJ is a animal just the same. The thinking process wont be known for at least a year if not longer. Sure we got speed but at the sacrifice of size which was an issue as well. Trent wants big WR's on the roster in some capacity. He made a play for Edwards and now Moss, both of which had speed and size which any team would want. With the way Edwards flamed out and the ? surrounding Moss I cant understand why we didn't get a WR in that mold. It could be we wanted to target players we knew would be available and the Jenkins pick was that. The story about putting his name in an envelope sounds great but I could put 50 names that would be available so its not "special" he reached a bit and that's why we got him.

So far Trent has missed on every WR he has brought in: Williams, Swain, Hastings, Edwards, and Johnson. Now we have Moss and Manningham and who knows with those two. The position we struggled with the most is his biggest weakness in evaluating talent so far. I really hope Jenkins works out so we can give Alex an actual viable weapon but going the "little" guy route is concerning.

And if have been going through his posts pointing out stuff for days. Brininig up everytihng "wrong" seems like an attack to me.
Originally posted by jreff22:
So far Trent has missed on every WR he has brought in: Williams, Swain, Hastings, Edwards, and Johnson. Now we have Moss and Manningham and who knows with those two. The position we struggled with the most is his biggest weakness in evaluating talent so far. I really hope Jenkins works out so we can give Alex an actual viable weapon but going the "little" guy route is concerning.
Okay so you list 2 6th round picks, 2 UDFA's and a receiver we picked up for just over the league minimum and proclaim that Trent has missed on every WR he brought in. A little unreasonable don't you think. Furthermore, I think Williams was a good pick considering we grabbed him in the 6th round. The fact of the matter is, Trent up till this offseason had not really tried to bring in that much WR help so it's a little soon to be making the declaration that Trent can't evaluate WR talent.

And since when is a 6 foot tall receiver considered a "little guy?"
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
This post is full of unsupported speculation.

Further, the posted argument--that the Niners needed to draft DeCasto in order to solve their "OL problems"--also appears to be badly misguided. One could argue that the position stated in this post completely ignores or overlooks the state of the Niner's offense last season.

According to the post, the Niners needed yet another first round selection at OL in order to cure a somewhat anemic offense that struggled on third downs, on short yardage situations, in the red zone, and with pass protection. As if adding DeCastro would suddenly, magically cure all these ills.

But the trouble did not lie solely with the OL. Rather, it could be traced to a lack of a sufficient number of playmakers who are able to get separation and get open, especially on third down and in short yardage situations. Opposing teams last season were frequently able to overwhelm the OL with numbers in these situations because they knew our skill players did not have the speed necessary to get open quickly and allow the QB to get the ball out of his hands fast enough.

So the genius cure by Harbaugh and Baalke is to add two speedy playmakers to stretch the field, get separation (and get open), and take the pressure off the QB and the OL.

There's just no way the addition of DeCasto at RG would have cured the third down ills that plagued the team last year. But the addition of Jenkins, James and Looney will go a long way towards doing so. IMHO.

So the post above is really just speculating about something that's a non-issue as far as improving the offense is concerned. Would adding DeCastro have helped? Probably. Would it have solved the third down problems. Not likely. Good as he is, DeCastro is not quick, fast, or speedy enough to get separation and get open on critical downs, nor is it his job to do so, obviously.

It seems pretty clear that Baalke got the guy he was targeting all along--both in the first and in the second round. So the completely unsupported argument that he coulda or shoulda tried to trade to get DeCastro is not only purely speculative, its also compeletely frivolous.

The post shows a lack of understanding about what the Niners were trying to accomplish in the draft, for the offense, in the first place. IMHO.

Which would be better to cure the third down/short yardage ills, getting a great RG, or getting a really good RG, a terrific WR with great speed, AND a terrific third down RB with great speed (and adding a bunch of picks next year as well). Seems like a pretty easy call.

BTW, thanks to MadDog for framing this issue the way he did. It may not have been his intent to do so, but presenting the argument the way he does allows Niner fans to more closely examine just what Baalke and Harbaugh set out to do, and accomplished, in the draft this year.

This draft was deep in WR's, and the difference between a player like Jenkins and another WR like Randle, Quick, Jones, to me is negligible. The difference between DeCastro and every other guard not named Glenn or Brooks, is wide. It is the way you grade players and the value you place on how they project in the future.
Agreed, draft was deep in WRs. You may even be right about DeCasto being one of the top three guards in the draft.

Neither point answers the questions posed: do you have any actual evidence that Baalke refused to consider another team's offer to trade, that the Brown's, for example, called and offered the 22nd pick in exchange for #30 and #92, but Baalke turned them down?

Further, it may all be a moot point. It appears that the Niner's were more interested in solving their short yardage/OL problems by adding some speedy playmakers than by adding yet another first round OL selection? Did you even consider that?

Fundamentally, you and I appear to have a difference of opinion in how building a team should be approached. You appear to be of the "plug in a great player and expect great results" school. Lots of people prefer that way of thinking, but it doesn't always net the expected results. (See, Philly's "dream team" last season.) (Or Singletary's failed experiment of plugging two first round rookies into the starting OL and watching an 8-8 team go 0-5 to start and 6-10 overall.) (Or any of Washington's FA moves since Snyder bought the team.)

To me, there's not always alot of difference in the actual talent of two different NFL teams. They may have a nearly equal number of fast, big, strong, strong-armed, skilled, experienced, and motivated players. One may be great, the other a perennial loser. The difference--coaching and team management.

So whether Jenkins is a C+ pick, or an A+ ultimately doesn't matter, to me, cause its how he's coached, and how he fits into the team's overall plan that matters. He appears to add a badly missing dimension--speed--that Randall, Quick, Jones, Sanu, and others would not necessarily provide. Now lets see how Roman and Harbaugh use that speed, along with his other abilities--route running ability, excellent hands, etc.

I'm guessing that he's going to have a great rookie season, much like Aldon Smith had last year. Not because of his measurables, but because of how his abilities are utilized, or "fitted" to the vision Harbaugh has of the offense.

So your criticism of Baalke for not moving up to get DeCastro is a far too simplistic view of what occurred in the draft to be of much worth, to me. To the extent you lack any real evidence that it actually occurred, its also somewhat unfair to Baalke, but whatever. . . .I doubt he lost any sleep over it.

Neither did I, for that matter.
dont understand the mad dog bashing ehre---he gives his opinions like we all do on a messgae board...i dont always agree with maddog but always find him to be an informative and interesting read, with well thought out opinions
  • fryet
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,838
Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Nobody care what grades u give.

I care
Originally posted by hofer36:
dont understand the mad dog bashing ehre---he gives his opinions like we all do on a messgae board...i dont always agree with maddog but always find him to be an informative and interesting read, with well thought out opinions

What bashing? Right now all I see ate two groups of people who disagree on something and are arguing about it. But they aren't attacking each other.

Sometimes MadDog's opinions are selected, I suspect, more to get a reaction. But that's ok.
Originally posted by fryet:
Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Nobody care what grades u give.

I care

No you dont
  • fryet
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Originally posted by Amir:
Maddog, I have nothing against you. You obviously watch a lot of college football but:

You have NO access to the medical reports of each player
You have NO access to psychological report of each player
You have NO contact with any player therefore you have no access to their interview
Only video access you have is from the feed from the broadcast and I doubt you are able to watch EVERY single game and evaluate each player on a weekly basis

You certainly have the right to have your opinion and I think it's great you do this every year. However, please excuse me when I say that your evaluations are worthless without having the data I posted above.

Maybe I should flame you instead. (: If this is the requirement to make a post-draft evaluation, then this is going to be a lonely board. And even those that have access to the above information often/usually make the wrong decision. Despite this, post-draft grades are fun. Everyone should realize that draft grades will change dramatically after the players get on the field, and the grades now are probably incorrect. Despite this, many people, myself included, asked MadDog his opinion on the 49ers draft. As one who has spent a lot of time on the draft and the 49ers, his opinion carries a lot of weight. Can he be wrong? Sure - and MadDog will be the first to admit that. But it can be fun to have a draft expert give their initial impressions after the draft.
  • Amir
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 25,674
Originally posted by fryet:
Originally posted by Amir:
Maddog, I have nothing against you. You obviously watch a lot of college football but:

You have NO access to the medical reports of each player
You have NO access to psychological report of each player
You have NO contact with any player therefore you have no access to their interview
Only video access you have is from the feed from the broadcast and I doubt you are able to watch EVERY single game and evaluate each player on a weekly basis

You certainly have the right to have your opinion and I think it's great you do this every year. However, please excuse me when I say that your evaluations are worthless without having the data I posted above.

Maybe I should flame you instead. (: If this is the requirement to make a post-draft evaluation, then this is going to be a lonely board. And even those that have access to the above information often/usually make the wrong decision. Despite this, post-draft grades are fun. Everyone should realize that draft grades will change dramatically after the players get on the field, and the grades now are probably incorrect. Despite this, many people, myself included, asked MadDog his opinion on the 49ers draft. As one who has spent a lot of time on the draft and the 49ers, his opinion carries a lot of weight. Can he be wrong? Sure - and MadDog will be the first to admit that. But it can be fun to have a draft expert give their initial impressions after the draft.

When and where did I say maddog should stop doing a mock or no one should be allowed to ask questions? Maddog has every right to do this and others have every right to ask questions and get answers from him. I simply said that I hope he understands why I choose not to care about his evaluation based on him not having access to certain important/relevant data.
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
Originally posted by jreff22:
So far Trent has missed on every WR he has brought in: Williams, Swain, Hastings, Edwards, and Johnson. Now we have Moss and Manningham and who knows with those two. The position we struggled with the most is his biggest weakness in evaluating talent so far. I really hope Jenkins works out so we can give Alex an actual viable weapon but going the "little" guy route is concerning.
Okay so you list 2 6th round picks, 2 UDFA's and a receiver we picked up for just over the league minimum and proclaim that Trent has missed on every WR he brought in. A little unreasonable don't you think. Furthermore, I think Williams was a good pick considering we grabbed him in the 6th round. The fact of the matter is, Trent up till this offseason had not really tried to bring in that much WR help so it's a little soon to be making the declaration that Trent can't evaluate WR talent.

And since when is a 6 foot tall receiver considered a "little guy?"

6'0 190 is little IMO. He has a small frame so I don't see him being a great blocker unless he adds some weight. Morgan and Crabs have like 20lbs on him which does make a difference. And its not a "potential" problem with Jenkins, I just don't see him being that kind of WR. He should help immensely in the passing game, I just don't see much help in the running game.

That's still 5 players and the fact that we decided on Swain over other guys is alarming in itself.....and we just resigned that turd. And why did he not recognize the need for more talent at the position? He decided to pass on lots of guys and wait to take a WR late numerous times...or not at all. Although no GM can predict injury he should be making sure important positions are addressed. We should of taken a proven guy in Housh or Chambers yet we went with a GB nobody. Again looking at judging talent in both the short and long term.

Going back to 2010:

In the 2nd round we could of had,
Golden Tate
Damian Williams
Brandon LaFell
Jordan Shipley
Eric Decker

In the 6th round we could of had,
Antonio Brown
David Gettis
Marc Mariani

Don't get me wrong I think he has done a great job at building this team and should get better with time. But the WR position has been a weakness on this roster and the added talent so far has been lackluster. If all goes well which I hope Moss will be committed and will become the #1 and Jenkins should be the #2 or #3 by mid season. The WR issue was a major factor in not winning the NFCC, these acquisitions and picks better fix the problem now.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Thanks for the kind words, and glad you see what I was trying to do.

I admit that I, too, wanted Fleener and was surprised at the selection of Jenkins in the first. I did not know who Jenkins was at first, although I was sure the Niners would pick someone other than what we all expected. Trying to figure out what they were up to in this draft has been fun and enlightening.

I have no idea how well Jenkins or LMJ, or any other pick will perform this coming season. I am, however, more and more impressed with Harbaugh and Baalke and their respective abilities. If this draft lives up to my newfound expectations--cures even some of the short yardage woes we're so used to seeing for so long--then next season is gonna be another very pleasant surprise. Harbaugh's team's gonna crush some opponents.

How can you so vigorously defend Jenkins, when you just stated that you didn't know who Jenkins was at first? And, if you didn't know Jenkins, who was very well known by anyone that examines the draft, how can you even begin to break down how the Niners draft was superior to mine.

As for Jenkins, I spoke about him well more than any board member before the draft on the Draft Board. In fact, I was a big supporter of his offseason play and potential in the NFL, much more than my colleagues. That being said, I simply don't award him bonus points because the team selected him. He is graded where he is graded, regardless of the team selecting him. He does not gain superhuman powers because he straps on a 49ers jersey or if Baalke thinks he is great.

As for your breakdown of why the Niners' selections were superior to mine, you are entitled to defend them. At least defend it from a position of strength. But to state that you really dont know who the first rounder was, but their selections must be better than my selections, simply because Baalke and Harbaugh made their choices, is not a strong argument.

As for the argument that Baalke and Harbaugh have this whole thing figure out at RG, I present to you their plan for the 2011 season, a Day One starter named......Chilo Rachal. That was brilliant!!! So, Baalke and Harbaugh do not have divine powers, They have the potential to make errors in judgment, make stinky player personnel decisions, and draft players that should not have been selected.

Do you honestly buy the company line across the board? Have the Niners' management ever made an error?
I didn't say I don't know who he is, I said I was surprised at his selection and didn't recognize him at first. Since then, its called research bro. Since he was drafted, I've read more about him. Duh.

You trying to say you have memorized each and every detail of each and every one of the 253 guys selected? Or even of the 199 of those guys you had on your board? I don't try to hold myself out as any kind of expert, and my "defense" was not premised on any claim of expertise by me. Its just a comparison based on where the guys you selected were actually taken, the Niner's picks, and common sense.

Defending the Niner's selections over yours was easy enough, since you gave many of those selections "A" grades, yourself. Your "mock" didn't address the most glaring need on offense--speed--and didn't provide any real backup depth at other positions. It appears that you just took the guy you thought might be the highest rated player at or near the Niner's selection and threw the name out there. I'm glad that's not what Baalke did.

Criticizing Harbaugh for starting the RG from the previous regime, especially when he appeared to have all the measurables that experts apparently look for, doesn't seem fair. The fact is, Rachal is now gone, which is much more telling about Harbaugh's appaisal of his abilities. Furthermore, Baalke drafted the guy who may replace Rachal . . . in LAST YEAR's draft. Guy named Kilgore. Member him? So now that you bring it up, maybe Baalke and Harbaugh DO have this whole RG thing figured out.

I'm more inclined to believe in them than not, at least given their recent success. Even with a guy like Rachal at RG, they managed to go 13-3. Go figure.

Based on the Harbaugh/Baalke track record to date, we should all be inclined to "buy the company line" from them at this point, unless and until someone can point to some real evidence that says we shouldn't. Something more than the kind of speculation about imaginary "missed golden opportunities" that you've presented.

Niner's management has, certainly, made mistakes in the past. (WR named Ron Johnson from last year's draft comes to mind.) So?

You claim that I'm trying to defend everything the Niner's do. Not so, but at least I'm not criticizing them for stuff that didn't even happen.

Its not the same management group; things have changed. Maybe its time to "sit up" and take notice?
[ Edited by oldninerdude on May 3, 2012 at 2:56 PM ]
How does that saying go? Oh yeah. We all have the right to our own opinion. However, we don't have the right to our own facts. Or something like that.