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Hill and ? or Fleener and ?

Hill and ? or Fleener and ?

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Dude, 16.4 yards/catch IS a deep threat. He caught Bubble screens and stuff, too. Just because you catch a lot of deep balls doesn't mean you can't also catch short stuff. W/out changing GT's offense this year, Hill's ypc would have decreased if they threw more, since you can't throw deep all game. You can't block for it all game, so you have to mix in the quick stuff, so the other team isn't expecting the deep ball, and they don't kill your QB on every drop back. The deep passing game is garbage when the DL knows its coming (Ask Tom Brady about the 4th Quarter of the 2007 superbowl). Regardless, I would challenge you to produce any clips of CJ running the complete route tree in college.

Why don't you put up evidence that he couldn't run the route tree?

16.4 is pretty much standard for his skill sets. Fitzgerald had 16.6. I'm not disputing that Johnson didn't have his fair share of deep balls but at 6'5 240 that's inevitable.

He played in a pro style offense at Georgia Tech compared to Paul Johnson's triple option. You don't see the difference? Biletnikoff award winner, number 1 rated prospect on Mel Kiper's board, hell Maddog had him as the best wide receiver prospect to ever live.

There's no comparision between the 2 other than they're tall and athletic.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
1st Round) Coby Fleener

2nd Round) Tommy Streeter

FA) Vincent Jackson

SUPER BOWL.....
Amen to this!!!
Originally posted by 49ERSALLDAYEVERYDAY:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
1st Round) Coby Fleener

2nd Round) Tommy Streeter

FA) Vincent Jackson

SUPER BOWL.....
Amen to this!!!

.
Originally posted by aman49:
lol, whyTF do ppl on this board keep pulling for Fleener?

1, we already have 2 good TEs.
2, None of the experts have Fleener graded as even a top 5 TE.

No, we have one great TE and one versatile player that plays TE. Walker does not create mismatch problems. He is a converted WR, who was too slow in the NFL to play WR, and doesn't really have the size to play TE.

As for the vote, I am hoping we find a way to get Fleener AND Hill!! Would be a great addition of size and speed both to our offense.
Originally posted by RDB4216:
Originally posted by aman49:
lol, whyTF do ppl on this board keep pulling for Fleener?

1, we already have 2 good TEs.
2, None of the experts have Fleener graded as even a top 5 TE.

No, we have one great TE and one versatile player that plays TE. Walker does not create mismatch problems. He is a converted WR, who was too slow in the NFL to play WR, and doesn't really have the size to play TE.

As for the vote, I am hoping we find a way to get Fleener AND Hill!! Would be a great addition of size and speed both to our offense.

Yup 100% agree.

Where are these people getting that DW is a great anything? TE? Converted WR? When has he been great? Based on what? Show me.
Mike Wallace at #30 Thread closed
lol, wut.

First, people don't realize D-Love plays like a million positions.

Second, instead of saying I'm wrong for saying the experts (mayock, etc) dont have him as a top TE, why don't u show me a link that says otherwise? I watched NFL Networks TE rankings to hear about fleener the other day and he wasn't even mentioned.
Originally posted by aman49:
lol, wut.

First, people don't realize D-Love plays like a million positions.

Second, instead of saying I'm wrong for saying the experts (mayock, etc) dont have him as a top TE, why don't u show me a link that says otherwise? I watched NFL Networks TE rankings to hear about fleener the other day and he wasn't even mentioned.

from your boy mike mayock before the combine

http://www.nfl.com/combine/story/09000d5d826f9cd9/article/precombine-position-rankings-for-2012-nfl-draft

2. Coby Fleener

the reason you might not have heard a lot about him during the combine is because he didn't participate
[ Edited by DonnieDarko on Mar 3, 2012 at 4:40 AM ]
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Dude, 16.4 yards/catch IS a deep threat. He caught Bubble screens and stuff, too. Just because you catch a lot of deep balls doesn't mean you can't also catch short stuff. W/out changing GT's offense this year, Hill's ypc would have decreased if they threw more, since you can't throw deep all game. You can't block for it all game, so you have to mix in the quick stuff, so the other team isn't expecting the deep ball, and they don't kill your QB on every drop back. The deep passing game is garbage when the DL knows its coming (Ask Tom Brady about the 4th Quarter of the 2007 superbowl). Regardless, I would challenge you to produce any clips of CJ running the complete route tree in college.

Why don't you put up evidence that he couldn't run the route tree?

16.4 is pretty much standard for his skill sets. Fitzgerald had 16.6. I'm not disputing that Johnson didn't have his fair share of deep balls but at 6'5 240 that's inevitable.

He played in a pro style offense at Georgia Tech compared to Paul Johnson's triple option. You don't see the difference? Biletnikoff award winner, number 1 rated prospect on Mel Kiper's board, hell Maddog had him as the best wide receiver prospect to ever live.

There's no comparision between the 2 other than they're tall and athletic.

You're making the argument that CJ is more polished/ran a more sophisticated route tree. It is my position that the burden of proof would lie on you. If he ran the full tree, any highlight tape on YouTube should show that. If it becomes difficult to find that footage, then that kinda makes my point. Mostly, I don't want to look it up because I am pretty sure that I am right, and I am completely sure that I am lazy.

Aaaaaaaaaaaand, Fitz is widely regarded as a n elite deep threat (not because of speed, but because of size, hands, timing, and leaping. So, I accept your argument as evidence of my point.

GT's offense was not Pro Style, it was just more balanced run/pass. Pro Style offenses have route packages that change on the fly with sight adjustments as a response to coverage schemes. GT did not do that.

I am not saying they are the same prospect AT ALL, I am simply stating that, for all of Calvin Johnson's production and talent, he was still not a polished receiver coming out. There were plenty of questions as to whether or n ot he would run the full route tree in the NFL. The difference is, his production and talent were such that people said (essentially), "Who cares if he only runs 3-4 routes, if he can't be covered on any of them?" He got to the league, got some coaching, and expanded his portfolio. It happens
Originally posted by RDB4216:
No, we have one great TE and one versatile player that plays TE. Walker does not create mismatch problems. He is a converted WR, who was too slow in the NFL to play WR, and doesn't really have the size to play TE.

As for the vote, I am hoping we find a way to get Fleener AND Hill!! Would be a great addition of size and speed both to our offense.

Would love this, too, but I don't see any chance of it happening . We would have to trade back into the early second from #30, and use the gained picks to trade up in the second from #62, then have 31 teams (whoops, 29. Sorry OAK and NO ) pass on two great prospects in the first and early/mid second. Sounds pretty unlikely.
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Would love this, too, but I don't see any chance of it happening . We would have to trade back into the early second from #30, and use the gained picks to trade up in the second from #62, then have 31 teams (whoops, 29. Sorry OAK and NO ) pass on two great prospects in the first and early/mid second. Sounds pretty unlikely.

Hill impressed at the combine, no doubt of that. And before where some people thought he'd be a 3rd-4th rounder, they are now saying 1st-2nd. But that is that "now" factor, because it's so fresh. I think a lot of teams come closer to draft day, will realize he is still a very unpolished route runner, who has a lot to learn. Unfortunatly, it only takes one team to fall in love with him and willing to take a chance, for him to go early.
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Wylie in the second, or just in general? I would be irate if we took wylie in the second.

Oh no no no...not Wylie in the Second. I would love to land Zietler or one of the better CBs in the second after Fleener. Wylie in the third or fourth even. A Joe Adams would be nice too.

But I can see our receiving core now...
Vincent Jackson
Michael Crabtree
Josh Morgan (I think he'll be back)
Wylie or Adams

Vernon Davis
Delaine Walker (TE or H-back)
Coby Fleener

as opposed to last year
Michael Crabtree
Josh Morgan
Ted Ginn
Kyle Williams

Vernon Davis
Delaine Walker
Peele/Byhnam

Me likey new possible receivers.
if we get fleener(luxury pick) in first we have to go with the need (wr) in 2nd if we don't get a wr via FA
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by RDB4216:
Originally posted by aman49:
lol, whyTF do ppl on this board keep pulling for Fleener?

1, we already have 2 good TEs.
2, None of the experts have Fleener graded as even a top 5 TE.

No, we have one great TE and one versatile player that plays TE. Walker does not create mismatch problems. He is a converted WR, who was too slow in the NFL to play WR, and doesn't really have the size to play TE.

As for the vote, I am hoping we find a way to get Fleener AND Hill!! Would be a great addition of size and speed both to our offense.

Yup 100% agree.

Where are these people getting that DW is a great anything? TE? Converted WR? When has he been great? Based on what? Show me.

He is great and what are you smoking that clouds your judgment on that POV?

He does do everything TE, H-Back, WR...He's great at blocking and running routes out of the backfield especially. He's not elite in terms of sheer athleticism, but to our team he's great.

Those blocks against Suh? 'Nuff said. That catch in the EZ to win that game 'nough said. The TD catch to split the TB CBs and S and catch the ball in the EZ is another. Go look at the games on NFL rewind and see what I'm talking about. He was just not the same after the broken jaw. He's so valuable to us. Still, like all players, he makes mistakes like the dropped perfect ball in the EZ against the Lions.

He's not perfect, but he has been great when we needed him too. I hope we can resign him next year too.
Originally posted by ninertico:
He is great and what are you smoking that clouds your judgment on that POV?

He does do everything TE, H-Back, WR...He's great at blocking and running routes out of the backfield especially. He's not elite in terms of sheer athleticism, but to our team he's great.

Those blocks against Suh? 'Nuff said. That catch in the EZ to win that game 'nough said. The TD catch to split the TB CBs and S and catch the ball in the EZ is another. Go look at the games on NFL rewind and see what I'm talking about. He was just not the same after the broken jaw. He's so valuable to us. Still, like all players, he makes mistakes like the dropped perfect ball in the EZ against the Lions.

He's not perfect, but he has been great when we needed him too. I hope we can resign him next year too.

Man, I like DW, and I love our Niners, but great players don't get the dropsies and fumblitis at clutch moments in games. He is a good football player, but there is no question that the position could be upgraded.