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Pick 30 and these players are on the board. Who do you take?

Pick 30 and these players are on the board. Who do you take?

Originally posted by Gore_21:
Yeah, really no reason to pick a 1st round 3-4 DE. I wouldn't mind getting one if someone was a steal at 60 but I expect at least 3 if not 4-5 more years out of Smith. We hardly rotate our guys so I'm not so sure it would be worth more than using a 2nd rounder if it was a steal.

Absolutely would be worth using a 2nd rounder on Reyes, with one of the reasons being that they DON'T rotate the defensive ends and I think a big part of that is the lack of a comparable talent. Bringing on Reyes would help to keep Smith and McDonald fresh, maybe even extend Smith's career without a noticeable drop in performance while on or the other is out. Reyes is the proverbial bull in the china shop, he'll run over offensive linemen the same way Smith does, hell he man-handled pro-quality offensive linemen at the Senior Bowl and I see him doing likewise in the pro's, nice size and base of strength, very good prospect.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
If we pick Coby Fleener we are going to the Super Bowl. Bottom line.... Can you imagine what VD could do if he wasn't getting double teamed on every play. He already had a 965 yard year with 13 TD's. If he wasn't receiving the double team just imagine.....

There are WR's you can get in the 2nd or 3rd round. Or FA. I just don't see a WR worthy at #30. A tall, rangy redzone target like Fleener with great hands would do wonders for this offense.

I agree that WR is a need for this team, that part I understand but like you, I'm not blown away by the talent likely available at 30. I think guys who will be available in Rounds 2 and 3 such as Streeter and McNutt are just as likely to turn out to be stars and develop into dominant receivers as anything you'll find in the first round, they offer far better value and if you combine a free-agent WR, a rookie like Fleener to spread the defense and start from Day 1,and then a rookie WR to develop and provide depth, this offense is going to look a hell of a lot better next year.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Feb 18, 2012 at 6:55 PM ]
Originally posted by Crazy49er1313:
I agree that he won't be a starter, but this is about talent for BPA, not need. I don't think Fleener nor Randle will make it to #30 (talent and strong combine showing will increase value), and no one else on that list inspires a 1st round grade. Reyes may have started off as mid-rounder, but that was b/c he played in the Big LEast, which is understandable. But this guy has something and if we build on a strength then we get even STRONGER.

Just imagine this rotation:

McDonald - Soap - Smith

Dobbs/Tukuafu - RJF - Reyes

Not to mention our 4-down sets, how in the hell would any team scheme against us? All fastpaced and strong, we'd give our LB core free range to do whatever they wanted


If Fleener or Randle did slip though, I won't lie, it would be a very difficult decision...


When drafting for BPA, you're also looking at the guy most likely to contribute. I don't think Reyes has good value in the 1st round if he isn't going to be a starter. I think you can look at OLB or CB before going for 3-4 DE in the 1st. If the guy isn't going to start, then you find someone in the later rounds who can develop while playing here and there and eventually turn into a starter after a couple of years. Like I said, in the 2nd round that's an entirely different issue, but in the 1st you're looking for someone who at least will be a potentially large contributor to the team next year.
The best OLB or CB prospect available. We can get WRs n OGs later in the draft or in FA.
  • buck
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Originally posted by OtisDriftwood:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Very easy: Cordy Glenn. He is simply the best prospect of that group right now, and would be an immediate upgrade at RG, especially considering this supposes we do not re-sign OG Snyder. Glenn is a monster. Glenn could be the next Larry Allen in this league.

thats the one I picked too.

OG is one of our major needs. Glenn would solidify the interior line and have an immediate positive impact on both our passing and running game.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
When drafting for BPA, you're also looking at the guy most likely to contribute. I don't think Reyes has good value in the 1st round if he isn't going to be a starter. I think you can look at OLB or CB before going for 3-4 DE in the 1st. If the guy isn't going to start, then you find someone in the later rounds who can develop while playing here and there and eventually turn into a starter after a couple of years. Like I said, in the 2nd round that's an entirely different issue, but in the 1st you're looking for someone who at least will be a potentially large contributor to the team next year.

I wouldn't reach on a OLB/CB just b/c it's the 1st round rather than getting a killer DE who automatically makes our depth better, prolongs the health of some of our key players, and provides a potential future replacement if need be.

As for contributing, outside of WR, none of those 1st rounders would appear to take over the starting positions, and the WRs would be only b/c we lack depth. Here's how I'm judging the criteria of those guys above:

Coby Fleener: Will be gone, but if there, becomes #2 TE (sorry Walker, Fleener just fits system better) and starts in 2 TE sets or split out in 3 WR sets

Reuben Randle: Will be gone, but if there @ #30, wouldn't be upset with pick. Hasn't proven it on field, but his physical numbers make him worth the risk.

Dwayne Allen: Waste of a pick since he'd need to develop and would be battling with Byham for #3 TE

Sanu/Jeffery: Same person, big WR who have difficulty separating, but due to ESPN highlights get overvalued. MAYBE a late 2nd on them

Alfonso Denard: Last season, might be top 15 pick. This year, placed @ #1 CB role in Nebraska, showed limited talent. Wouldn't be mad with this pick, but I value Culliver/Brown/Brock more than Denard, and he'd be fighting for dime package role.

Cordy Glenn: Wildcard here. If we can't resign Snyder, this might become the "required" pick, but wouldn't be upset due to his size and talent for the run scheme. If Snyder comes back, does Glenn start over him?

So, by your argument, none of them would really start and worth the 1st round talent outside of Fleener and Randle, both of whom I think will be gone by #30. I'd rather reaffirm the DLine rather than reach on a WR (Rashaun Woods anyone?)
[ Edited by Crazy49er1313 on Feb 18, 2012 at 10:24 PM ]
Originally posted by buck:
OG is one of our major needs. Glenn would solidify the interior line and have an immediate positive impact on both our passing and running game.

4 1st rounders on the same OL is kinda overkill, no? Especially since Snyder did a decent job, giving up only 3 sacks all year, and you also have Kilgore behind him, backing him up, not that I think that Glenn will slide to 30 anyways.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
If we pick Coby Fleener we are going to the Super Bowl. Bottom line.... Can you imagine what VD could do if he wasn't getting double teamed on every play. He already had a 965 yard year with 13 TD's. If he wasn't receiving the double team just imagine.....

There are WR's you can get in the 2nd or 3rd round. Or FA. I just don't see a WR worthy at #30. A tall, rangy redzone target like Fleener with great hands would do wonders for this offense.

I agree that WR is a need for this team, that part I understand but like you, I'm not blown away by the talent likely available at 30. I think guys who will be available in Rounds 2 and 3 such as Streeter and McNutt are just as likely to turn out to be stars and develop into dominant receivers as anything you'll find in the first round, they offer far better value and if you combine a free-agent WR, a rookie like Fleener to spread the defense and start from Day 1,and then a rookie WR to develop and provide depth, this offense is going to look a hell of a lot better next year.


Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
If we pick Coby Fleener we are going to the Super Bowl. Bottom line.... Can you imagine what VD could do if he wasn't getting double teamed on every play. He already had a 965 yard year with 13 TD's. If he wasn't receiving the double team just imagine.....

There are WR's you can get in the 2nd or 3rd round. Or FA. I just don't see a WR worthy at #30. A tall, rangy redzone target like Fleener with great hands would do wonders for this offense.

I agree that WR is a need for this team, that part I understand but like you, I'm not blown away by the talent likely available at 30. I think guys who will be available in Rounds 2 and 3 such as Streeter and McNutt are just as likely to turn out to be stars and develop into dominant receivers as anything you'll find in the first round, they offer far better value and if you combine a free-agent WR, a rookie like Fleener to spread the defense and start from Day 1,and then a rookie WR to develop and provide depth, this offense is going to look a hell of a lot better next year.


Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
If we pick Coby Fleener we are going to the Super Bowl. Bottom line.... Can you imagine what VD could do if he wasn't getting double teamed on every play. He already had a 965 yard year with 13 TD's. If he wasn't receiving the double team just imagine.....

There are WR's you can get in the 2nd or 3rd round. Or FA. I just don't see a WR worthy at #30. A tall, rangy redzone target like Fleener with great hands would do wonders for this offense.

I agree that WR is a need for this team, that part I understand but like you, I'm not blown away by the talent likely available at 30. I think guys who will be available in Rounds 2 and 3 such as Streeter and McNutt are just as likely to turn out to be stars and develop into dominant receivers as anything you'll find in the first round, they offer far better value and if you combine a free-agent WR, a rookie like Fleener to spread the defense and start from Day 1,and then a rookie WR to develop and provide depth, this offense is going to look a hell of a lot better next year.

I agree 100%.
[ Edited by SanDiego49er on Feb 18, 2012 at 10:29 PM ]
im sorry guys but as good as this fleener looks there is no way we can take another TE we are not the patriots.. You cant have 1 catch for 3 yds to a WR in a game and expect to win. We need a true speedy WR not another Athletic TE
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
4 1st rounders on the same OL is kinda overkill, no? Especially since Snyder did a decent job, giving up only 3 sacks all year, and you also have Kilgore behind him, backing him up, not that I think that Glenn will slide to 30 anyways.

Originally posted by elguapo: "But Snyder gave up the second most pressures to Davis without starting every game. He is an average rg you may just not see that bc after rachal left our oline got better. But it still was not good at all on the right side, just better than before. We need a good rg and who knows about Kilgore over snyder, but we don't need to give up all those pressures on that right side"

Trying to figure out where he got that stat from. The 3 sacks sounds good but I know a lot of pressure came from Snyder and Goodwin and at times their miscommunication. Something has to give though... that many 1st round picks. Time for them or Solari to put up or shut up. Davis seems to be getting better but I'm on of those who thinks if he doesn't take a big leap this year we might have to consider moving him to RG and making Boone RT. I think we would be a lot better with that grouping. Hard to be patient even though Anthony is so young.
Originally posted by Fricker:
im sorry guys but as good as this fleener looks there is no way we can take another TE we are not the patriots.. You cant have 1 catch for 3 yds to a WR in a game and expect to win. We need a true speedy WR not another Athletic TE

Fricker, I don't think anyone is saying ignore the WR situation they are just saying Fleener might be the surest thing and could produce right away. 6'6" with speed, he can make an immediate impact with us playing 2 TE sets a lot. Get us TDs and 3rd down conversions. I think they are saying get him but then fix the WR spot with Morgan back, drafting a WR in the 2nd or 3rd... maybe another free agent.
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Originally posted by Fricker:
im sorry guys but as good as this fleener looks there is no way we can take another TE we are not the patriots.. You cant have 1 catch for 3 yds to a WR in a game and expect to win. We need a true speedy WR not another Athletic TE

Fricker, I don't think anyone is saying ignore the WR situation they are just saying Fleener might be the surest thing and could produce right away. 6'6" with speed, he can make an immediate impact with us playing 2 TE sets a lot. Get us TDs and 3rd down conversions. I think they are saying get him but then fix the WR spot with Morgan back, drafting a WR in the 2nd or 3rd... maybe another free agent.

Fleener could help us big time. He's not to be underestimated. People are latching onto "WR" too much. It doesn't matter who your targets are. As long as you have targets. Reaching on a WR in the 1st who is not worthy is worse than drafting Fleener who IS WORTHY. IMO we will have to trade up for him though. This is a copycat league. People have seen what Jimmy Graham and Gronkowski can do. If you don't think a lot of teams are looking for a 6'6" TE with great hands and good speed you are kidding yourself. To think he lasts until #30 is wishful thinking on the WZ IMO. I think we realistically have to trade up to get him. And I'd be fine with doing that BTW. He's the king sized Red Zone target that we need with great hands.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Fleener could help us big time. He's not to be underestimated. People are latching onto "WR" too much. It doesn't matter who your targets are. As long as you have targets. Reaching on a WR in the 1st who is not worthy is worse than drafting Fleener who IS WORTHY. IMO we will have to trade up for him though. This is a copycat league. People have seen what Jimmy Graham and Gronkowski can do. If you don't think a lot of teams are looking for a 6'6" TE with great hands and good speed you are kidding yourself. To think he lasts until #30 is wishful thinking on the WZ IMO. I think we realistically have to trade up to get him. And I'd be fine with doing that BTW. He's the king sized Red Zone target that we need with great hands.

Yep, plus I expect teams to start using more 2 TE sets and do what the Pats do. They really only had Welker and because of their two TEs they had a good passing game. Here's a good example of the "WR" things.... remember in 06 when we were desperate for WRs we ended up taking a TE by the name of Vernon Davis. Yeah, he wasn't a WR BUT he was a target... we thought he was the best "receiver" in the draft because the WR crop was poor so we went with a TE who we thought was again "the best receiver" in the draft. It took awhile, some people turned on him... but it worked out. One thing to consider is Fleener probably won't take the time VD did to emerge. He's NFL ready, VD was just raw plutonium.

P.S. To clear things up most don't think Fleener is the best receiver in the draft like we did with VD but it's a similar situation in that a lot of us think the crop at 30 is really sketchy. There are a lot of guys but all have huge flaws. I'd take Wright or Blackmon over Fleener as better receivers but they will be long gone.

Summing that up I think getting Fleener would be we got the best receiver at pick 30... probably not in the whole draft with Blackmon and Wright being out of reach.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Feb 18, 2012 at 11:16 PM ]
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Fleener could help us big time. He's not to be underestimated. People are latching onto "WR" too much. It doesn't matter who your targets are. As long as you have targets. Reaching on a WR in the 1st who is not worthy is worse than drafting Fleener who IS WORTHY. IMO we will have to trade up for him though. This is a copycat league. People have seen what Jimmy Graham and Gronkowski can do. If you don't think a lot of teams are looking for a 6'6" TE with great hands and good speed you are kidding yourself. To think he lasts until #30 is wishful thinking on the WZ IMO. I think we realistically have to trade up to get him. And I'd be fine with doing that BTW. He's the king sized Red Zone target that we need with great hands.

Yep, plus I expect teams to start using more 2 TE sets and do what the Pats do. They really only had Welker and because of their two TEs they had a good passing game. Here's a good example of the "WR" things.... remember in 06 when we were desperate for WRs we ended up taking a TE by the name of Vernon Davis. Yeah, he wasn't a WR BUT he was a target... we thought he was the best "receiver" in the draft because the WR crop was poor so we went with a TE who we thought was again "the best receiver" in the draft. It took awhile, some people turned on him... but it worked out. One thing to consider is Fleener probably won't take the time VD did to emerge. He's NFL ready, VD was just raw plutonium.

P.S. To clear things up most don't think Fleener is the best receiver in the draft like we did with VD but it's a similar situation in that a lot of us think the crop at 30 is really sketchy. There are a lot of guys but all have huge flaws. I'd take Wright or Blackmon over Fleener as better receivers but they will be long gone.

Fleener is more NFL ready. And he knows Harbaugh's systme inside and out. No small thing. His adjustment time would be smaller. He is one of the best "targets" in this draft regardless of "TE" or "WR." You can't worry about position. You pick the best "receiver" in the draft (WR or TE). That's what NoWin said. "We got the best receiver in the draft." He may have been right. It took a while to develop but VD is a beast. NoWin didn't do many things right but that one was right. I just don't know why guys don't get this. You don't pass up a greater talent to take a lessor talent a "position of need." That's called a REACH....
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Fleener is more NFL ready. And he knows Harbaugh's systme inside and out. No small thing. His adjustment time would be smaller. He is one of the best "targets" in this draft regardless of "TE" or "WR." You can't worry about position. You pick the best "receiver" in the draft (WR or TE). That's what NoWin said. "We got the best receiver in the draft." He may have been right. It took a while to develop but VD is a beast. NoWin didn't do many things right but that one was right. I just don't know why guys don't get this. You don't pass up a greater talent to take a lessor talent a "position of need." That's called a REACH....

P.S. To clear things up most don't think Fleener is the best receiver in the draft like we did with VD

When I said this what I meant is with VD at 6 overall we thought we had the best receiver in the draft. With Fleener I don't think we would think that's the case more so than the best receiver at pick 30. I know Fleener will come in and contribute day 1 knowing the system... VD took years.