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:::OFFICiAL::: 2012 NFL SCOUTING COMBINE THREAD

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
^^ i agree 40 do matter

but it only matters to people like jeffery or sanu those people that have speed concerns coming out

every scouting report shows that wright has elite speed and athlethicisim and it shows when you watch this guy in games therfore 40 for him doesnt matter

the 40 in draft is very dependent on track form which a bad form could easily add ,2 seconds to your time

The bad form is a theory, to my knowledge I haven't seen any breakdown of the film of him running a 40 showing the bad form.

Edit: I'm sure people can disagree with my ranking of the 09 draft class of WRs. Hopefully that doesn't derail conversation as that wasn't my point. Feel free to rank them as you want, but notice what produces in the NFL and what kind of combines they had (and yes I looked at more then 40, espicially with guys that ran in low 4.5s).

All you need to do is have seen the games of Kendall Wright and known the DBs he scorched all over the field. If you haven't seen the games, you can still research the DBs and compare their spring practice 40 times. Wright's "official" 40 time is not an indicator of how fast he is. The unofficial time was a far more accurate time I felt.

Javon Harris, CB/FS for Oklahoma runs an estimated 4.49 -- If you saw Baylor vs. OU, Harris looks like a 4.7 guy running behind Wright as he attempts to chase him down on what was something like an 80+ yard TD reception.

Wright may not be a 4.3 guy but I think he's a 4.45-4.54 guy at the worst.
Originally posted by jreff22:
Robiskie ran a sub 4.5
Massaquoi has been very good for the Browns
Barden has had injury issues

I pulled Robiskie's 40 time from nfl.com

I believe you are citing his pro day 40
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
All you need to do is have seen the games of Kendall Wright and known the DBs he scorched all over the field. If you haven't seen the games, you can still research the DBs and compare their spring practice 40 times. Wright's "official" 40 time is not an indicator of how fast he is. The unofficial time was a far more accurate time I felt.

Javon Harris, CB/FS for Oklahoma runs an estimated 4.49 -- If you saw Baylor vs. OU, Harris looks like a 4.7 guy running behind Wright as he attempts to chase him down on what was something like an 80+ yard TD reception.

Wright may not be a 4.3 guy but I think he's a 4.45-4.54 guy at the worst.

I HAVE seen Wright's games for the last time....

And you are talking about the deflection play?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT34mwhaZMg

The DB stops running when the ball gets deflected.....

at0:45 you will see Wright go in full sprint, DB goes into back pedal, at 0:46, KW splits inside, DB turns his hips, at 0:47 the DB lets up and turns his hips completely to the other sidelines while Wright continues to run straight, when the DB changes direction he does an odd little "jump"
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Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
I HAVE seen Wright's games for the last time....

And you are talking about the deflection play?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT34mwhaZMg

The DB stops running when the ball gets deflected.....

at0:45 you will see Wright go in full sprint, DB goes into back pedal, at 0:46, KW splits inside, DB turns his hips, at 0:47 the DB lets up and turns his hips completely to the other sidelines while Wright continues to run straight, when the DB changes direction he does an odd little "jump"

yea as much as I dont want to poke holes in Wright's game I have to agree that in that instance both Wright and the DB were jogging at near identical pace wjen he caught that the deflection. They both started running full speed at the same time once Wright had the ball, at that point the only way the DB had a shot at catching Wright was if he was simply faster then him. and they both looked about the same speed as the initial 5 yard gap stayed about the same length for the whole run. IMO Wright might have been slightly faster then him on that play but they both looked to be about the same speed. That play was a busted deflection fluke that you shouldn't really use to judge Wright's overall speed.
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Robiskie ran a sub 4.5
Massaquoi has been very good for the Browns
Barden has had injury issues

I pulled Robiskie's 40 time from nfl.com

I believe you are citing his pro day 40

No the sub 4.5 was from the combine. He did every drill very well and I specifically remember his dad watching him and making a phone call after he ran his 40.
Originally posted by jreff22:
No the sub 4.5 was from the combine. He did every drill very well and I specifically remember his dad watching him and making a phone call after he ran his 40.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/brian-robiskie?id=80682
-Says it was a 4.59

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=1625
-says it was a 4.49

But this just distracts from my entire post. Take him out of the equation, and I think the evidence is still compelling.
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by jreff22:
No the sub 4.5 was from the combine. He did every drill very well and I specifically remember his dad watching him and making a phone call after he ran his 40.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/brian-robiskie?id=80682
-Says it was a 4.59

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=1625
-says it was a 4.49

But this just distracts from my entire post. Take him out of the equation, and I think the evidence is still compelling.

just to make sure I understand....your point was that slow WR's dont produce?
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
I HAVE seen Wright's games for the last time....

And you are talking about the deflection play?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT34mwhaZMg

The DB stops running when the ball gets deflected.....

at0:45 you will see Wright go in full sprint, DB goes into back pedal, at 0:46, KW splits inside, DB turns his hips, at 0:47 the DB lets up and turns his hips completely to the other sidelines while Wright continues to run straight, when the DB changes direction he does an odd little "jump"

watch the game against TT or washington

desmand trufant a top 10 CB in next years draft he beat him 3 times
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
All you need to do is have seen the games of Kendall Wright and known the DBs he scorched all over the field. If you haven't seen the games, you can still research the DBs and compare their spring practice 40 times. Wright's "official" 40 time is not an indicator of how fast he is. The unofficial time was a far more accurate time I felt.

Javon Harris, CB/FS for Oklahoma runs an estimated 4.49 -- If you saw Baylor vs. OU, Harris looks like a 4.7 guy running behind Wright as he attempts to chase him down on what was something like an 80+ yard TD reception.

Wright may not be a 4.3 guy but I think he's a 4.45-4.54 guy at the worst.

I HAVE seen Wright's games for the last time....

And you are talking about the deflection play?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT34mwhaZMg

The DB stops running when the ball gets deflected.....

at0:45 you will see Wright go in full sprint, DB goes into back pedal, at 0:46, KW splits inside, DB turns his hips, at 0:47 the DB lets up and turns his hips completely to the other sidelines while Wright continues to run straight, when the DB changes direction he does an odd little "jump"

I never said you haven't seen the games. My "you" was a general you for the discussion. And I'm talking about the whole game. Harris had trouble all game keeping up with Wright, and there were a few plays where Fleming was matched up on Wright as well I believe. Fleming, the NFL prospect, and not as a fast as Harris, was understandably not put on Kendall Wright.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Mar 2, 2012 at 12:04 PM ]
Originally posted by jreff22:
just to make sure I understand....your point was that slow WR's dont produce?

No.....Ultimately my point is that Kendall Wright's 40 time is cause for serious concern and should drop him into the range of late 2nd round early 3rd round value. People thought I was crazy and said you can't judge a WR by a 40 time. My response was the dump of info I've been pulling up (past 40 times of the top 25 WRs last year and then the 09 draft year).

My point was if a WR runs a poor 40 time its a red flag and shouldn't be dismissed. There are WRs that have run poor 40 times and produced, but they are typically in the mold of the 6'2+ 210lbs+ type WR. So sure, Fitzgerald run a 4.6 or somewhere around there but he is an entirely different type of WR.

Also, there are quite a few WRs that range between 6' and 6'2 and a little over 200lbs that ran in the low 4.5s and worked out great in the NFL.

I pulled the 09 draft year data just to show the WRs that worked out in the NFL and those that did not. Then I posted their 40 time, because it shows qutie a bit of relevance (IMO) to those that completely busted. Those with slower 40 times had a more likely chance to bust and the pure speed burners taken in the first 4 rounds all panned out to a degree except for 1.

I've never said a WR that runs a 4.6 can't make it into the NFL. All I've said is you have to account for KW's 40 time in projecting his value, and look at the trend in WRs that have produced in the NFL. I don't think KW will bust and I'm not making that prediction. I just think he has fallen into the late 2nd and early 3rd round hence me putting him #9 on my most recent listing of WRs. Now does this mean I think 8 WRs will be taken before him? No it does not. You gotta draft WRs that a GM feels fits their system and the type of passing game they want. KW in the slot IMO would be pretty effective and I think where he best projects. Austin Collie is an example of this, I don't think Collie would be very effective in most offenses in the league. But working the slot in the Colts offense is a great fit for him.
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by jreff22:
just to make sure I understand....your point was that slow WR's dont produce?

No.....Ultimately my point is that Kendall Wright's 40 time is cause for serious concern and should drop him into the range of late 2nd round early 3rd round value. People thought I was crazy and said you can't judge a WR by a 40 time. My response was the dump of info I've been pulling up (past 40 times of the top 25 WRs last year and then the 09 draft year).

My point was if a WR runs a poor 40 time its a red flag and shouldn't be dismissed. There are WRs that have run poor 40 times and produced, but they are typically in the mold of the 6'2+ 210lbs+ type WR. So sure, Fitzgerald run a 4.6 or somewhere around there but he is an entirely different type of WR.

Also, there are quite a few WRs that range between 6' and 6'2 and a little over 200lbs that ran in the low 4.5s and worked out great in the NFL.

I pulled the 09 draft year data just to show the WRs that worked out in the NFL and those that did not. Then I posted their 40 time, because it shows qutie a bit of relevance (IMO) to those that completely busted. Those with slower 40 times had a more likely chance to bust and the pure speed burners taken in the first 4 rounds all panned out to a degree except for 1.

I've never said a WR that runs a 4.6 can't make it into the NFL. All I've said is you have to account for KW's 40 time in projecting his value, and look at the trend in WRs that have produced in the NFL. I don't think KW will bust and I'm not making that prediction. I just think he has fallen into the late 2nd and early 3rd round hence me putting him #9 on my most recent listing of WRs. Now does this mean I think 8 WRs will be taken before him? No it does not. You gotta draft WRs that a GM feels fits their system and the type of passing game they want. KW in the slot IMO would be pretty effective and I think where he best projects. Austin Collie is an example of this, I don't think Collie would be very effective in most offenses in the league. But working the slot in the Colts offense is a great fit for him.

k

I dont see him falling that far because he has massive amounts of potential and can exploit teams in the correct offense. I still feel he will be the 3rd or 4th WR taken but he has lost ground to Floyd.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I never said you haven't seen the games. My "you" was a general you for the discussion. And I'm talking about the whole game. Harris had trouble all game keeping up with Wright, and there were a few plays where Fleming was matched up on Wright as well I believe. Fleming, the NFL prospect, and not as a fast as Harris, was understandably not put on Kendall Wright.

But just because Harris is fast doesn't mean he should be able to shut down Wright. If anything, I think it shows Harris can't cut it in the NFL. Like the things I pointed out in that one clip, do you see Harris do that little jump when he tries to change direction? The thing that stood out to me the most on that play is KW's ability to change of direction and Harris terrible ability at changing direction.

And if you want to play the match up game,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T41VjqtWxiE

Givens Touchdown with single coverage against Xavier Rhodes, who has a good shot at being a top 5 corner in next years draft. Its a s**tty angle and I know its just one highlight and you can't judge a player on one highlight ect. But it is a good display, Givens sells the inside slant and then burns Rhodes deep, ball is underthrown and he adjusts and still makes the TD.