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OTC's First Mock of 2012

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
G is not a first round need

WR and CB are

we have a subpar WR core compared to all of nfl

we are one more CB away from being an elite defensive unit
Nobody denies that we are one CB away of being a elite defensive unit...But we have some potential at CB, with Culliver, Brock and Adams.
But we dont have any redzone-target at WR. BUT this year's WR-class is deep enough to wait so that we dont have to draft a WR in the first.

Acc to Goodwin and Snyder we have agree to disagree, I think. It could be worse (Rachal at RG) but it could much better as well.
  • dj43
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Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Goodwin is locked up for two years, has been very steady, and he improved as the season wore on,
Who said that? You? He was ok, at best. He will regress due to his age.
Kilgore will be ready next year, at center or guard
I hope that you are right. I prefer double-dipping.
Snyder will likely be resigned, and that Stanford kid (Beeler?) might also be available and a year more mature. Center and/or guard doesn't seem to be much of a need.
It doesnt seem for you but for some other guys like OTC, lamontb or me. I dont want to wait for "maturity" or "ready to start" any longer. That team is in win-mode now. We need reliable starters. Snyder is not reliable, I dont know anything about Beeler, Kilgore or Person either. Perhaps on of Kilgore/Person will be released before the regular season starts b/c their improvement is slower than one thought.
Plus, Baalke's two OL picks from last season, Kilgore and Person, have had a year in the system and a year in the weight room--I'm betting he goes with them over another draft pick--UNLESS Konz is that much better than anyone else. (In which case he's not likely to be there late in the first.)
Enough said, I think.

IMO, it is the exception that a player drafted in the later rounds becomes a quality starter. In this case, Person/Kilgore are more likely to be less expensive backups in case Snyder leaves as some suggest. I don't see either of them becoming a starter. Hence, the likely scenario would be to draft Konz (DeCastro will be gone) to be the starting RG with the other three competing for a backup job. Now if Kilgore looks like a player, then he can go to center or Konz is center with Kilgore RG. But first they have to draft Konz.
Originally posted by communist:
Nobody denies that we are one CB away of being a elite defensive unit...But we have some potential at CB, with Culliver, Brock and Adams.
But we dont have any redzone-target at WR. BUT this year's WR-class is deep enough to wait so that we dont have to draft a WR in the first.

Acc to Goodwin and Snyder we have agree to disagree, I think. It could be worse (Rachal at RG) but it could much better as well.

im not arguing that we are far from an all pro patriots or saints like o line

i agree we have potential at CB( i think culliver has a bright future)

although this is a deep WR class i would rather get a stud that contribute now instead of getting one lower in draft wh has high potential (both would be better)

VD can beat the one on one coverage anytime and since crabtree came back healthy his numbers have increased a lot however getting a guy opposite crabtree will free him up leaving either our new WR crabtree or VD in single coverage almost every play

and i know for sure crabtree and VD can both beat that one on one coverage all day


personally im hoping for sanu hes 6 2 but long arms strong fast and is a play maker

hes also a great blocker and probably the best possession receiver in draft

having crabtree and sanu start with morgan and KW in slot VD and delante as TE

thats a deadly receiving core
Originally posted by dj43:
While I believe WR is the greatest need, Konz is such a good player that if he were there when the 49ers pick I would not be terribly disappointed if they chose him. As OTC notes, a lot of the pass protection problems this year have come from the front of the pocket collapsing back into Alex. If Konz isn't there, then a big WR is a rather obvious pick if the value is right.

One area in which I disagree is in the secondary: Due to rule changes and the development of tall receivers, I believe it is imperative that the 49ers begin to draft taller DBs. Seattle has already done that and though they have not fully developed their guys, they are set up well to defend against the new wave of tall, athletic wideouts. The suggestion that the DBs in this mock being "only" 6' or shorter does not square with the way I see other teams going on offense. In a passing league with so many of the best receivers being 6'2" or taller I believe size should be given stronger consideration.
The thing is most of the taller CB just aren't fluid enough in the hips to be corners at the next level. it's why antrelle rolle had to move to safety. it's why folks think Patrick Peterson will eventually move to safety. Let's see what happens with Kirkpatrick from Alabama b/c he's pretty tall CB. But you really aren't going to find that many tall DB's b/c in college those guys have been converted to WR. If you are 6'5 with Calvin Johnson skills no coach in their right mind would let you be a DB. Seattle has that one corner that is 6'4 and at times he has really struggled. But look around there just aren't that many 6'2 plus corner backs. Nnamdi and Champ are the 2 biggest corners i can think of off top of my head.
Originally posted by lamontb:
The thing is most of the taller CB just aren't fluid enough in the hips to be corners at the next level. it's why antrelle rolle had to move to safety. it's why folks think Patrick Peterson will eventually move to safety. Let's see what happens with Kirkpatrick from Alabama b/c he's pretty tall CB. But you really aren't going to find that many tall DB's b/c in college those guys have been converted to WR. If you are 6'5 with Calvin Johnson skills no coach in their right mind would let you be a DB. Seattle has that one corner that is 6'4 and at times he has really struggled. But look around there just aren't that many 6'2 plus corner backs. Nnamdi and Champ are the 2 biggest corners i can think of off top of my head.

peterson is doing well his last 4-5 games he has been pretty shut down
  • dj43
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Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by dj43:
While I believe WR is the greatest need, Konz is such a good player that if he were there when the 49ers pick I would not be terribly disappointed if they chose him. As OTC notes, a lot of the pass protection problems this year have come from the front of the pocket collapsing back into Alex. If Konz isn't there, then a big WR is a rather obvious pick if the value is right.

One area in which I disagree is in the secondary: Due to rule changes and the development of tall receivers, I believe it is imperative that the 49ers begin to draft taller DBs. Seattle has already done that and though they have not fully developed their guys, they are set up well to defend against the new wave of tall, athletic wideouts. The suggestion that the DBs in this mock being "only" 6' or shorter does not square with the way I see other teams going on offense. In a passing league with so many of the best receivers being 6'2" or taller I believe size should be given stronger consideration.
The thing is most of the taller CB just aren't fluid enough in the hips to be corners at the next level. it's why antrelle rolle had to move to safety. it's why folks think Patrick Peterson will eventually move to safety. Let's see what happens with Kirkpatrick from Alabama b/c he's pretty tall CB. But you really aren't going to find that many tall DB's b/c in college those guys have been converted to WR. If you are 6'5 with Calvin Johnson skills no coach in their right mind would let you be a DB. Seattle has that one corner that is 6'4 and at times he has really struggled. But look around there just aren't that many 6'2 plus corner backs. Nnamdi and Champ are the 2 biggest corners i can think of off top of my head.

I agree with all you say here. However, the issue is; with all these agile big guys playing offense, at some point in time college coaches will be forced to move some of those guys to defense in order to defend them. In the meantime, pro coaches are going to put pressure on from their side as they look for DBs that can defend a CJ or Fitz or Graham. Coaches are not going to stand idle on this.

The rule changes have clearly had the intended effect of opening up the passing game. A major way in which it has opened up is to allow guys like Colston, with less than burner speed, to play the game over the head of shorter DBs. Jimmy Graham has instant "separation" just standing at the LOS. The guy can reach over 12' with both hands. Defensive coaches are going to find ways to counter this...and the way is to insist on taller defenders. A tall guy doesn't have to have great hands. He must only be fluid with good speed. Scouts are going to find those players at some level.
First of all, play with tall or even taller safeties. Or find LBs who can play against tall WRs/in coverage well.
Excellennt post and great comments.

Like your FA resigns - I'd add Grant. Also, I feel we'll pick up one big time FA in either a WR or CB. [Maybe it's just wishful thinking] This will dictate tthe draft.

Koonz is a real bad ass and would be a 10 yr. + player at a high quality level.

What ever we don'y get in FA of our top needs we must get in the draft. The Saints game will be an indicator of what is most pressing. My gut says another top flight CB. We'll need one in the first 2 rounds.

I have lots of faith in Baalke/JH to find some gems.
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by lamontb:
This draft is on point. Goodwin needs to be replaced ASAP.

disagee

goodwin has been solid as of last couple games

same with snyder

G is not a first round need

WR and CB are

we have a subpar WR core compared to all of nfl

we are one more CB away from being an elite defensive unit

sorry but i want somebody who is gonna be good the whole season(and seasons to come) instead a couple of games. Synder and Goodwin just aren't reliable players. Taking a center in the 1st round doesn't mean they can't get a WR or CB elsewhere. Those positions might be addressed in free agency. And me liking the Konz pick doesn't mean I wouldn't be happy with a 1st round CB or WR then a C in the 2nd. Just make sure you upgrade the position.
I would be happy with that draft.

Taking Konz in the first would certainly relieve the issue of letting Snyder go. Maybe that makes it worthwhile...Assuming Konz is there.

I'd like to say we can go BPA, but it really depends on what we keep from our FAs.

Interior Lineman, Big Bodied WR, and a DB do appear to be our biggest needs..so this draft is a hit with me.

Personally, I wouldn't mind taking 2 Big WRs..one early and one as a developmental project and throw them up against the wall to see what sticks.

OTC - Is there a guard in the 2nd that you really like for that RG position if we aren't willing to spend a 1st?
[ Edited by Jakemall on Jan 10, 2012 at 12:37 PM ]
I'm sold. Like the Branch and Hill picks the most. Adding a third pass rusher will only help long term with Branch.
Hill definitely looks intruiging too as a potential #1a or #2 WR.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by dj43:
While I believe WR is the greatest need, Konz is such a good player that if he were there when the 49ers pick I would not be terribly disappointed if they chose him. As OTC notes, a lot of the pass protection problems this year have come from the front of the pocket collapsing back into Alex. If Konz isn't there, then a big WR is a rather obvious pick if the value is right.

One area in which I disagree is in the secondary: Due to rule changes and the development of tall receivers, I believe it is imperative that the 49ers begin to draft taller DBs. Seattle has already done that and though they have not fully developed their guys, they are set up well to defend against the new wave of tall, athletic wideouts. The suggestion that the DBs in this mock being "only" 6' or shorter does not square with the way I see other teams going on offense. In a passing league with so many of the best receivers being 6'2" or taller I believe size should be given stronger consideration.
The thing is most of the taller CB just aren't fluid enough in the hips to be corners at the next level. it's why antrelle rolle had to move to safety. it's why folks think Patrick Peterson will eventually move to safety. Let's see what happens with Kirkpatrick from Alabama b/c he's pretty tall CB. But you really aren't going to find that many tall DB's b/c in college those guys have been converted to WR. If you are 6'5 with Calvin Johnson skills no coach in their right mind would let you be a DB. Seattle has that one corner that is 6'4 and at times he has really struggled. But look around there just aren't that many 6'2 plus corner backs. Nnamdi and Champ are the 2 biggest corners i can think of off top of my head.

I agree with all you say here. However, the issue is; with all these agile big guys playing offense, at some point in time college coaches will be forced to move some of those guys to defense in order to defend them. In the meantime, pro coaches are going to put pressure on from their side as they look for DBs that can defend a CJ or Fitz or Graham. Coaches are not going to stand idle on this.

The rule changes have clearly had the intended effect of opening up the passing game. A major way in which it has opened up is to allow guys like Colston, with less than burner speed, to play the game over the head of shorter DBs. Jimmy Graham has instant "separation" just standing at the LOS. The guy can reach over 12' with both hands. Defensive coaches are going to find ways to counter this...and the way is to insist on taller defenders. A tall guy doesn't have to have great hands. He must only be fluid with good speed. Scouts are going to find those players at some level.

Yea I agree. It's coming sooner or later. Might end up taking some guys from basketball that can't catch and see what they can do. Just like they find some of these tight ends.
i don't know who any of those guys are, but that's exactly the kind of draft I want us to have.
I like this draft alot.
Originally posted by communist:
Nobody denies that we are one CB away of being a elite defensive unit...But we have some potential at CB, with Culliver, Brock and Adams.
But we dont have any redzone-target at WR. BUT this year's WR-class is deep enough to wait so that we dont have to draft a WR in the first.

Acc to Goodwin and Snyder we have agree to disagree, I think. It could be worse (Rachal at RG) but it could much better as well.

I like Culliver, but I honestly have no faith in Brock being serviceable. Oh, and Phillip Adams is no longer with the team.
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