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Coby Fleener - TE Stanford

Originally posted by jreff22:
Retarded?

Potential #1 WR is better then any potential #2TE

VALUE. VALUE. VALUE. If you're talking "potential", you can find a "potential" #1 receiver in the 5th round. If Fleener is the best player on the board and none of the WR's grade out as a future #1 WR, then it'd be idiotic to select a WR...just because.
Originally posted by susweel:
All I know is if we draft Fleener Im changing teams.

Somewhere deep in the Webzone, a chant starts... Fleener, Fleener, Fleener, Fleener!



Originally posted by tjd808185:
Yeah it is.

The only time he hit the red zone in the playoffs was when our backs were against the wall. Scoring then was never an issue. Our issue is when the score is 10-3 and we start playing conservative.

Over the course of the year we had tons of problem in the red zone and we had a total of 17 touchdowns from our passing game.

3rd downs is a problem too but when you do better on 1st and 2nd down you tend to convert more 3rd downs. On 2nd downs Smith had a 61% completion ratio.

That second Cardinals game was a perfect example of it.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Retarded?

Potential #1 WR is better then any potential #2TE

VALUE. VALUE. VALUE. If you're talking "potential", you can find a "potential" #1 receiver in the 5th round. If Fleener is the best player on the board and none of the WR's grade out as a future #1 WR, then it'd be idiotic to select a WR...just because.

Value is getting a 2nd option at TE after the first round.
Originally posted by jreff22:
Value is getting a 2nd option at TE after the first round.

No, value is getting an immediate contributor who will have the biggest possible impact on your team the next season. A 6'6" TE with 4.5 speed, great hands, leaping ability and who already knows the offense represents value to a team that couldn't score if their life depended on it at times, was atrocious in the red-zone, atrocious on third down and has a QB that likes to throw the ball a foot over everyone's head. Adding a guy who can help alleviate some of those problems represents real value.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Apr 25, 2012 at 4:22 PM ]
I don't think it's about value I think it's about maxumizing the potential of the offense. If there's a bonafide #1 out there then yes that wins, but that's up to our coaches/ GM/ scouts to decide. Otherwise you look for the gem.

I think you guys are behind the curb. Tight ends are the biggest mismatches in the NFL. They're athletic enough were you can line up 2 tight ends on most occasions with the exception of being 3rd and long.

Delanie is never going to be the guy were you can throw over the defender. He's 6'1 he's not capable of doing it. There's going to be a role for Fleener that Delanie can't fill this year based off that alone. Long term he'll definetily take over because Delanie's a free agent.
I think sometimes we get too caught up with analyzing the depth charts and prospect rankings. The focus should be on what our deficiencies were in 2011, and who in this draft can help rectify them.

Our biggest deficiencies without question is redzone & 3rd down efficiency. To me, a 6'6" 245 lb pass-catcher w/speed who attacks the middle of the field and excels in the redzone is the perfect remedy. Coby Fleener is the ideal choice and would provide the biggest impact. Who cares if he's the #2 TE? He will be on the field more often than not because he's a huge matchup problem.
[ Edited by SofaKing on Apr 25, 2012 at 4:30 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Value is getting a 2nd option at TE after the first round.

No, value is getting an immediate contributor who will have the biggest possible impact on your team the next season. A 6'6" TE with 4.5 speed, great hands, leaping ability and who already knows the offense represents value to a team that couldn't score if their life depended on it at times, was atrocious in the red-zone, atrocious on third down and has a QB that likes to throw the ball a foot over everyone's head. Adding a guy who can help alleviate some of those problems represents real value.

So getting somebody at WR who can do anything in a playoff game is less important? Hill for instance is 2 inches shorter but the overall better athlete and is known for blocking. You act as if Fleener will be this unstoppable force in the NFL and you know for a fact he will do everything. He is a heavy WR that offers little in the blocking department....you know something that is actually important.
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I hate Fleener and I hate this thread. Can't wait for this guy to go early round 2.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
No, value is getting an immediate contributor who will have the biggest possible impact on your team the next season. A 6'6" TE with 4.5 speed, great hands, leaping ability and who already knows the offense represents value to a team that couldn't score if their life depended on it at times, was atrocious in the red-zone, atrocious on third down and has a QB that likes to throw the ball a foot over everyone's head. Adding a guy who can help alleviate some of those problems represents real value.

The offense is not the same one they ran at Stanford it is simalar. they liked to you 2 and 3 TE in Collage because the hash marks are farther apart on the collage field. so they could shift to the wide side or short side. this would make the defense move. In the NFL the hash marks are closer together so there is not as big of a difference in the over loading of one side. I know they still use 2 TE. if they dont draft Fleener i would like to see them pick Ladarius Green in the 3 or 4th round. hes alot like fleener and no he can not block worth a piss. I agree that they should take the best player available im just not sure that player is going to be Fleener. and that is the point i think most are tring to say. hell he mite not even be there at pick 30. I think the BPA mite be a defensive player. i could see fleener and hill being picked early and that pushing down a good DE or OLB that could be put in on third down and rush the QB. If for some reason someone like Chandler Jones falls to pick 30 would you take him or fleener? I think the value would be Jones and take Green in later round. By the way i dont think there is a chance that Chandler Jones falles to pick 30 but i hope you get the idea.
[ Edited by dlance on Apr 25, 2012 at 6:04 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Why burn a pick on a guy who will never get 1K at TE? The only reason people want Fleener is because of the Stanford/Jim connection...if he played for another team people wouldn't be this hung up on him. We are not the Pats and why people assume we need to copy that style is beyond me.

This is asinine. The 49ers don't have to copy the Patriots style, they already have their own and it is an offense that is very TE heavy. The coach is Harbaugh, he loves utilizing multiple tight-ends, this team utilizes 2 TE's more than virtually every other team in the league, a 2nd TE is basically a starter on this team, even if Fleener doesn't get 1000 yards, that part is irrelevant. The threat is what is key, the mismatch that Fleener creates is the most important thing, not to mention that VD is now 28 or 29.....so in 5 years, guess what, Fleener could very well be the guy in his prime racking up huge yardage totals.

This is my impersonation of Phoenix answering any kind of retort regarding Fleener:

ZONER - "Here are my thoughts. I don't agree with the Fleener hype because of reason A, B, & C."

PHOENIX - "LOL back to reality. That's asinine. That's RETARDED LOGIC. You are wrong."

[ Edited by NickSh49 on Apr 25, 2012 at 6:05 PM ]
Mr T just ran a list of the top passing teams in the league and rarely did any of them have first round pick WRs. Only ATL had multiple first rounders.

What DID all of those teams have? Top QBs. He concluded that the QB can make lower picked but talented wRs much better and the first round is not smart to pick a WR.
[ Edited by Joecool on Apr 25, 2012 at 6:05 PM ]
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by susweel:
All I know is if we draft Fleener Im changing teams.

Somewhere deep in the Webzone, a chant starts... Fleener, Fleener, Fleener, Fleener!




lol
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by susweel:
All I know is if we draft Fleener Im changing teams.

Somewhere deep in the Webzone, a chant starts... Fleener, Fleener, Fleener, Fleener!




lol

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Value is getting a 2nd option at TE after the first round.

No, value is getting an immediate contributor who will have the biggest possible impact on your team the next season. A 6'6" TE with 4.5 speed, great hands, leaping ability and who already knows the offense represents value to a team that couldn't score if their life depended on it at times, was atrocious in the red-zone, atrocious on third down and has a QB that likes to throw the ball a foot over everyone's head. Adding a guy who can help alleviate some of those problems represents real value.

Fleener won't be an immediete contributer. He is a rookie from a soft conference at a position where he will be competing with Delanie and Davis for playing time. At best, he's the 5th option at this point, assuming he doesn't come in and light it up, which is rare, esp with VD, and D. Walker getting the reps. There is no guarantee Fleener pans out. Look at his college stats, they make you go . He was in Harbaugh's tight end heavy offense as the featured tight end with the nations next phenom QB and didn't light it up exactly. How will he fare with Alex Smith v. a Giants defense? OVer Davis and Walker, give me those two at this point.

A first rounder? No thanks. We need to win a SB now, and Fleener isn't going to take us over that hump.
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Apr 25, 2012 at 7:58 PM ]