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Coby Fleener - TE Stanford

  • mike
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,827
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by mike:
Missing 4 games in 4 years is injury prone?

Who's out there that can really be a sure deep threat?, for every victor cruz or torrey smith there's 10 ted ginns(or worse) lol.

Meh, he's about a concussion or two away from winding up like Jahvid Best. f**king soft-ass Cal guys.


Not sure why he's even being discussed though, as I said, too expensive...............NEXT............................


The same people bringing him up were the same ones talking about Nmadi and all the other big-time free agents the 49ers were going to bring in, it didn't happen then, it won't happen now. If they sign a WR it's going to be a guy in the 2nd or 3rd tier. Don't think Bowe, Jackson or Colston, think Meachem, Pierre Garcon, Laurent Robinson....etc.

That's the "realistic" approach I was going with when the offseason first started. I was saying someone like meachem too.

But who knows, last season was last season and keep in mind that we were coming right off of the lockout and going cheap+building through the draft and seeing what we could get made sense. Now that we know what's possible with this group of guys why not splurge a little.

And it may be taboo to say this but I'm fine losing a little depth on the defense to get a true playmaking FA receiver. I'd rather take the bargain bin FAs and put them on our defense like we did last offseason than risk it by taking cheapo Wr FAs.
[ Edited by mike on Feb 7, 2012 at 8:13 AM ]
The good news is Harbaugh coached Fleener at Stanford, so he will know if Fleener is worth the first round pick plus cutting Konrad Rheuland. I personally think Konrad Rheuland has good hands and would rather see the round 1 pick on a WR/CB/Safety.
Originally posted by 9erred:
The good news is Harbaugh coached Fleener at Stanford, so he will know if Fleener is worth the first round pick plus cutting Konrad Rheuland. I personally think Konrad Rheuland has good hands and would rather see the round 1 pick on a WR/CB/Safety.

cb depth is good short of kirlpatrick or jenkins maybe falling to us i think we pass on CB

S class this year is extremelly weak next years is strong though
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:


Been typing my fingers to the bone trying to drive that point home!

Both of you are missing the point... The Niners need playmakers....especially on third down plays and in the red zone. Fleener fills that need better than any WR the Niners could reasonably expect to get at the end of the first round. From all accounts, he runs great routes, has great hands, can find the seams in the zone (get open), and is a very intelligent player. He is also 6'6" tall and can jump (much like Graham from N.O.)... Do you remember what Graham did to the Niners in the playoff game at the Stick?

In addition, Harbaugh ran a 2-TE set often at Stanford and Fleener knows the offense so could contribute immediately (unlike many rookie wideouts who often develop slowly)...

The bottom line is this.....If the Niners draft Fleener, he and Davis are starters and the team runs a 2-TE set as their base offense....much like New England and New Orleans did this year with great success. A 2-TE set also helps the running game because you get an extra big blocker in the game. V. Davis would undoubtedly be more effective playing with Fleener because he would get single coverage more often and wouldn't have to stay in and block on certain passing plays. Picking Fleener would help the Niners in countless ways.

Cheers!
Originally posted by SofaKing:
I'd be down with using a high draft choice on him. Most sites I've seen have him projected to go late 1st or early 2nd round.


i feel it your down for using a high draft pick on him because youve seen it on a couple sites... lmao thank you lord we have pros doing scouting and picking the right players for us.. the "who the heck is aldon smith" pick comes to mind
Originally posted by nw9erfan:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:


Been typing my fingers to the bone trying to drive that point home!

Both of you are missing the point... The Niners need playmakers....especially on third down plays and in the red zone. Fleener fills that need better than any WR

We have more pressing needs than using a 1st round pick on someone you want to become our 3rd TE, or at least thats what he would be behind Delanie.. Hes not going to be drafted by us, we already have Vernon/Delanie/Byham youll have to get over it lol

And if i was to agree with you... you dont take him in the 1st, youd draft down for this kid.... not to mention you might as well wait for the NFL combine because all these mocks your studying are going to change, especially in the later rounds.
Originally posted by SundayTicket:
We have more pressing needs than using a 1st round pick on someone you want to become our 3rd TE, or at least thats what he would be behind Delanie.. Hes not going to be drafted by us, we already have Vernon/Delanie/Byham youll have to get over it lol

And if i was to agree with you... you dont take him in the 1st, youd draft down for this kid.... not to mention you might as well wait for the NFL combine because all these mocks your studying are going to change, especially in the later rounds.
If the 49ers draft Fleener, you've got be out of your mind if you think he'd be behind Delanie "I disappear for 3-4 whole games at a time" Walker. Delanie Walker is a 6 foot wide receiver trying to play tight end, a guy who paradoxically is a better blocker than receiver. If Fleener is drafted, your tight-ends become Vernon Davis 1A and Coby Fleener 1B, the 2-TE set becomes the 49ers base set and both guys get targeted for receptions plenty of times throughout the year.

Also keep in mind that Walker is a free agent next year, so its not all that mind-boggling to think that Fleener could be drafted, especially if Harbaugh sees him as a full-time contributor. 49ers are not going to find a tight-end who fits their offense better than Fleener does, period.


Also if the 49ers draft Fleener, it would be with their 1st round pick, he's not falling much further past 30 as it is, especially with the Colts picking early in the 2nd. Fleener comes with the experience of having played in a pro-style offense, having fantastic hands, route-running ability, great agility and leaping......he's the total package and it could end up that he doesn't even make it to the 49ers pick in the 1st round as several teams will be looking at the impact that Gronkowski had, that VD had, that Jimmy Graham had and they'll want to get in on the action as well.


If the 49ers are looking offense with their first pick, there isn't a better fit than Fleener in terms of a guy ready to contribute from the first day. He already knows the offense, he's played within the system, a 6'6" target in the red-zone would do Alex a lot of good.


If the Patriots came to the 49ers and said "hey guys, we'll trade you Gronkowski"..............would you say "no thanks bro, we got Delanie Walker, we're set."


Please.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Feb 7, 2012 at 11:23 AM ]
that´s true - we need a red zone target
Originally posted by Austrian49er:
that´s true - we need a red zone target

What are you talking about, Delanie Walker is like six f**king feet tall, that's a pretty intimidating redzone target if you ask me.



I think we get the picture, Phoenix. You want Coby Fleener and no one here can change your mind about that.
Originally posted by SF69ers:
I think we get the picture, Phoenix. You want Coby Fleener and no one here can change your mind about that.

Exactly. Walker wasn't coming up big on 3rd downs regularly last year, put in a highly polished 6'6" guy with better hands and there would be a tremendous improvement in that area. I'm far from the only one here who thinks Fleener would be a great fit for the 49ers.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Feb 7, 2012 at 11:59 AM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by SF69ers:
I think we get the picture, Phoenix. You want Coby Fleener and no one here can change your mind about that.

Exactly. Walker wasn't coming up big on 3rd downs regularly last year, put in a highly polished 6'6" guy with better hands and there would be a tremendous improvement in that area. I'm far from the only one here who thinks Fleener would be a great fit for the 49ers.

I know that. I've been on record saying I wouldn't be pissed if we selected him. But then again, I wouldn't be terribly upset if we passed up on him and had a draft like this:

1st: Alameda Ta'amu
2nd: Casey Hayward
3rd: Tommy Streeter/Stephen Hill
4th: Ladarius Green

You're so fixated on Fleener cuz of the success NE had with Gronk and Hernandez. We don't even run the same kind of offense they do. Sure, we run a lot of two TE sets, but that's cuz we run the ball a lot. Look at New Orleans and how well they did with Jimmy Graham, one TE, cuz they had Colston outside. A lot to do with their success is cuz of Brees and the system they run. Yet, in our game against NO, Vernon Davis outshined Jimmy Graham.
Originally posted by SF69ers:
I know that. I've been on record saying I wouldn't be pissed if we selected him. But then again, I wouldn't be terribly upset if we passed up on him and had a draft like this:

1st: Alameda Ta'amu
2nd: Casey Hayward
3rd: Tommy Streeter/Stephen Hill
4th: Ladarius Green

You're so fixated on Fleener cuz of the success NE had with Gronk and Hernandez. We don't even run the same kind of offense they do. Sure, we run a lot of two TE sets, but that's cuz we run the ball a lot. Look at New Orleans and how well they did with Jimmy Graham, one TE, cuz they had Colston outside. A lot to do with their success is cuz of Brees and the system they run. Yet, in our game against NO, Vernon Davis outshined Jimmy Graham.

Actually I like Fleener because

A. He knows the system, that means he's ready to contribute, muy importante for a team that was one Butter-Fingers away from the Super Bowl this year. WR's notoriously can take time to develop while a guy like Fleener would be an instant threat in the red-zone and down the middle of the field which is what this team needs.

B. He has the physical size that this team has been so desperately lacking. A 6'6" guy is one, a 6'6" guy with agility, great route running and good hands playing on the field the same time as VD is an absolute nightmare.

C. The guy won't get lost in the red-zone. During the season it seemed like the red-zone was a black hole at times, receivers would go in and just vanish, guys weren't getting separation whereas Fleener has tremendous physical size to go up and make plays. On top of that, you can even line him up at WR against a CB and see if they can stop him.

D. You put Fleener and VD on the field at the same time and the defense has to react, they could be in there to receive, they could be in there to block, the defense has to prepare for both possibilities and it keeps them on their tip-toes. That's one nifty way to clear out a run-heavy box, sending VD and Fleener up field, run a delayed handoff, give Gore some more daylight, let the two big TE's block downfield...etc

E. He's a mis-match plain and simple. Delanie Walker was shut down several times by teams putting a safety on him. He's a wide body, but he's short for a tight-end, thus making him an easier cover. Doing the same thing to Fleener would be incredibly difficult, especially if you've got to worry about VD on the other side. There's very few teams who can handle defending ONE very good tight-end, put two out there and something has to give. At that point its up to the other guys on the field to be able to make plays and for Roman to use creative play-calling to put them in the most advantageous positions.


My ideal situation is the 49ers signing Meachem and then drafting as follows.


1-Fleener
2-Kendall Reyes
3-Streeter
4-CB/OLB
5-OLB/FS/C
6-WR/RB
7-RB/FS
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Feb 7, 2012 at 12:16 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by SF69ers:
I know that. I've been on record saying I wouldn't be pissed if we selected him. But then again, I wouldn't be terribly upset if we passed up on him and had a draft like this:

1st: Alameda Ta'amu
2nd: Casey Hayward
3rd: Tommy Streeter/Stephen Hill
4th: Ladarius Green

You're so fixated on Fleener cuz of the success NE had with Gronk and Hernandez. We don't even run the same kind of offense they do. Sure, we run a lot of two TE sets, but that's cuz we run the ball a lot. Look at New Orleans and how well they did with Jimmy Graham, one TE, cuz they had Colston outside. A lot to do with their success is cuz of Brees and the system they run. Yet, in our game against NO, Vernon Davis outshined Jimmy Graham.

Actually I like Fleener because

A. He knows the system, that means he's ready to contribute, muy importante for a team that was one Butter-Fingers away from the Super Bowl this year. WR's notoriously can take time to develop while a guy like Fleener would be an instant threat in the red-zone and down the middle of the field which is what this team needs.

B. He has the physical size that this team has been so desperately lacking. A 6'6" guy is one, a 6'6" guy with agility, great route running and good hands playing on the field the same time as VD is an absolute nightmare.

C. The guy won't get lost in the red-zone. During the season it seemed like the red-zone was a black hole at times, receivers would go in and just vanish, guys weren't getting separation whereas Fleener has tremendous physical size to go up and make plays. On top of that, you can even line him up at WR against a CB and see if they can stop him.

D. You put Fleener and VD on the field at the same time and the defense has to react, they could be in there to receive, they could be in there to block, the defense has to prepare for both possibilities and it keeps them on their tip-toes. That's one nifty way to clear out a run-heavy box, sending VD and Fleener up field, run a delayed handoff, give Gore some more daylight, let the two big TE's block downfield...etc

E. He's a mis-match plain and simple. Delanie Walker was shut down several times by teams putting a safety on him. He's a wide body, but he's short for a tight-end, thus making him an easier cover. Doing the same thing to Fleener would be incredibly difficult, especially if you've got to worry about VD on the other side. There's very few teams who can handle defending ONE very good tight-end, put two out there and something has to give. At that point its up to the other guys on the field to be able to make plays and for Roman to use creative play-calling to put them in the most advantageous positions.


My ideal situation is the 49ers signing Meachem and then drafting as follows.


1-Fleener
2-Kendall Reyes
3-Streeter
4-CB/OLB
5-OLB/FS/C
6-WR/RB
7-RB/FS

So you're choosing Fleener mainly cuz of his history in Harbaugh's offense, correct? You don't think Harbaugh could get the best out of Egnew or Green? Two talented tight ends in their own rights.
Originally posted by SF69ers:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by SF69ers:
I know that. I've been on record saying I wouldn't be pissed if we selected him. But then again, I wouldn't be terribly upset if we passed up on him and had a draft like this:

1st: Alameda Ta'amu
2nd: Casey Hayward
3rd: Tommy Streeter/Stephen Hill
4th: Ladarius Green

You're so fixated on Fleener cuz of the success NE had with Gronk and Hernandez. We don't even run the same kind of offense they do. Sure, we run a lot of two TE sets, but that's cuz we run the ball a lot. Look at New Orleans and how well they did with Jimmy Graham, one TE, cuz they had Colston outside. A lot to do with their success is cuz of Brees and the system they run. Yet, in our game against NO, Vernon Davis outshined Jimmy Graham.

Actually I like Fleener because

A. He knows the system, that means he's ready to contribute, muy importante for a team that was one Butter-Fingers away from the Super Bowl this year. WR's notoriously can take time to develop while a guy like Fleener would be an instant threat in the red-zone and down the middle of the field which is what this team needs.

B. He has the physical size that this team has been so desperately lacking. A 6'6" guy is one, a 6'6" guy with agility, great route running and good hands playing on the field the same time as VD is an absolute nightmare.

C. The guy won't get lost in the red-zone. During the season it seemed like the red-zone was a black hole at times, receivers would go in and just vanish, guys weren't getting separation whereas Fleener has tremendous physical size to go up and make plays. On top of that, you can even line him up at WR against a CB and see if they can stop him.

D. You put Fleener and VD on the field at the same time and the defense has to react, they could be in there to receive, they could be in there to block, the defense has to prepare for both possibilities and it keeps them on their tip-toes. That's one nifty way to clear out a run-heavy box, sending VD and Fleener up field, run a delayed handoff, give Gore some more daylight, let the two big TE's block downfield...etc

E. He's a mis-match plain and simple. Delanie Walker was shut down several times by teams putting a safety on him. He's a wide body, but he's short for a tight-end, thus making him an easier cover. Doing the same thing to Fleener would be incredibly difficult, especially if you've got to worry about VD on the other side. There's very few teams who can handle defending ONE very good tight-end, put two out there and something has to give. At that point its up to the other guys on the field to be able to make plays and for Roman to use creative play-calling to put them in the most advantageous positions.


My ideal situation is the 49ers signing Meachem and then drafting as follows.


1-Fleener
2-Kendall Reyes
3-Streeter
4-CB/OLB
5-OLB/FS/C
6-WR/RB
7-RB/FS

So you're choosing Fleener mainly cuz of his history in Harbaugh's offense, correct? You don't think Harbaugh could get the best out of Egnew or Green? Two talented tight ends in their own rights.

Green seems more like a lanky WR to me. Egnew seems more like an athlete than a football player at times (like VD, who took 3-4 years to really show up), but if the coaches think they can slow down the game for him, I'll trust their eyes over mine (especially if they take him in the 3rd or later). Orson Charles is a more athletic Delanie Walker, IMO. Allen looks pretty good, but he will possibly go before Fleener, and he doesn't look quite as natural/comfortable in space. All just my opinion, and I've been wrong before (wanted Spiller BAD, but I also wanted Jordy Nelson and Carl Nicks, so I do alright on occasion )