Decison Time: Von vs Prince at 7

I'm not sold on miller at all and feel he is overated I say take prince then take someone n round 2 at olb for our pass rush needs I just feel prince is way better and we need a cb more than an olb. Yes harlson is overated and yes we do need an upgrade but let's be logical about this, just cuz we don't have an elite pass rusher doesn't mean we don't have people to get to the qb we've proven that. Were the team that has 4 to 5 guys with 6 plus sacks which means it's a team effort I say let's start with one problem (cb) then adress olb the next round

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Between Miller and Prince, I go Miller. Now, if it's between Miller and Peterson, I go Peterson. P2 is either going to be a lock-down type of CB or at worst, be an all-pro, ball-hawking FS for you.

Assuming they are of equal value, do you pick pass rusher or CB?

Just interested in your opinion...

I think though that Miller will be gone by 7, Buffalo at 3 is a darkhorse

Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
I think though that Miller will be gone by 7, Buffalo at 3 is a darkhorse

No way bills go with miller at 3 one of either fairly bowers or daerius would be there those are the clear cut top 3 dl players in the draft

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Between Miller and Prince, I go Miller. Now, if it's between Miller and Peterson, I go Peterson. P2 is either going to be a lock-down type of CB or at worst, be an all-pro, ball-hawking FS for you.

Assuming they are of equal value, do you pick pass rusher or CB?

Just interested in your opinion...

Me personally, talent being equal, I would always go with the stud pass rusher over the stud CB. Teams have found ways to soundly beat the Raiders over the years even though they have the top CB in the league. But the Packers have been a terror on defense since drafting Clay Matthews (who is a similar player to Miller), even when they're playing two undrafted free agents at CB (Tramon Williams and Sam Shields).

At the end of the day, I don't think you can go wrong either way, again, if the talent level is equal. But if I had to choose between the two, I'd rather start with a stud pass rusher and a patchwork secondary in year one, then upgrade the talent in the secondary in year two or three.

I will take the shutdown corner any day... a good one will take a way half the field in pass coverage. The good/great pass rusher can be neutralized by game planning.

Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
I think though that Miller will be gone by 7, Buffalo at 3 is a darkhorse

I could see the Bills going for Miller as well, if they feel they can get the other pieces in place for a 3-4. Given how much better their defense was as a 4-3, they might just stick with that and draft a traditional DE like Bowers. Or they could go with a guy like Dareus who could give them much more flexibility along their d-line (DE in a 3-4, or DT in a 4-3).

Voted Prince, but I'm OK with either really.

We can address the other position later, eg. Jimmy Smith at CB or Brooks Reed as a pass rushing OLB. Miller could have trouble with blockers in the NFL, Prince could get burned worse or throw up a high 4.5 at the combine like Malcolm Jenkins or Antrel Rolle.

Basically as long as the first 4 rounds include some combination of CB, OLB/DE, and QB I'll be pretty happy.

Originally posted by submoa:
I will take the shutdown corner any day... a good one will take a way half the field in pass coverage. The good/great pass rusher can be neutralized by game planning.

great point

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Between Miller and Prince, I go Miller. Now, if it's between Miller and Peterson, I go Peterson. P2 is either going to be a lock-down type of CB or at worst, be an all-pro, ball-hawking FS for you.

Assuming they are of equal value, do you pick pass rusher or CB?

Just interested in your opinion...

Me personally, talent being equal, I would always go with the stud pass rusher over the stud CB. Teams have found ways to soundly beat the Raiders over the years even though they have the top CB in the league. But the Packers have been a terror on defense since drafting Clay Matthews (who is a similar player to Miller), even when they're playing two undrafted free agents at CB (Tramon Williams and Sam Shields).

At the end of the day, I don't think you can go wrong either way, again, if the talent level is equal. But if I had to choose between the two, I'd rather start with a stud pass rusher and a patchwork secondary in year one, then upgrade the talent in the secondary in year two or three.

Total agreement here. Matthews is just the latest example. It will be interesting to see how Pittsburgh deals with him. If they have to rely on using Miller to help the OL, it will take away one of Ben's main weapons. A good example of how a pass rush forces teams to adjust.

Originally posted by submoa:
I will take the shutdown corner any day... a good one will take a way half the field in pass coverage. The good/great pass rusher can be neutralized by game planning.

Great CBs can be neutralized as well. You can run that CB out of an area and bring someone in front of him (TE, slot WR, RB), so though he might be able to take away 1 WR, he can't really take away an entire half of the field. However, a stud pass rusher will usually require a double team of some kind (TE, RB or inside OG help), giving other players an opportunity to make plays one-on-one.

Don't get me wrong, both are important...but both can be neutralized (see Nnamdi and Champ) as well.

How did Matthews do against a rookie in Anthony Davis?

Originally posted by TMays_isaBEAST23:
How did Matthews do against a rookie in Anthony Davis?

Are you saying Matthews isn't very good?

[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Feb 2, 2011 at 11:02:21 ]

Clements renegotiating will have an influence on the pick.

I would have a hard time passing up on Peterson at 7 but if I liked Prince Amukamara then I would trade up into the mid first round if he was still around.

Von Miller looks like a good fit for the teams needs and scheme (it would close the karma circle on a 235 lb OLB not being right for pass rushing duties).

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
I think though that Miller will be gone by 7, Buffalo at 3 is a darkhorse

No way bills go with miller at 3 one of either fairly bowers or daerius would be there those are the clear cut top 3 dl players in the draft

I think Patrick Peterson might disagree with that assessment. I think Buffalo will take Dareus or Peterson at #3. Bowers will go to Denver at #2 in my opinion.