Who Wants to Draft Cameron Jordan?

in my opinion it would be a reach, theres gonna be better talent when we pick anyways so i dont really see it happening. our dline wasnt our weakness and jordan is neither bpa or a need this soon in draft

Originally posted by CrabsAndVD:
in my opinion it would be a reach, theres gonna be better talent when we pick anyways so i dont really see it happening. our dline wasnt our weakness and jordan is neither bpa or a need this soon in draft

I don't think it was our main weakness, probably a strength, but it wasn't as good as people made it out to be either. Not even in the run game. Plus Franklin is a FA and may not be back. Jordan would not be bad in that case, moving Soap to NT and having RJF in there too.

Originally posted by CrabsAndVD:
in my opinion it would be a reach, theres gonna be better talent when we pick anyways so i dont really see it happening. our dline wasnt our weakness and jordan is neither bpa or a need this soon in draft

Saying the D-line isn't a need is a little naive. Considering that the Niners have had to depend on a platoon at RDE for a few years now, since they don't have one guy that can stay in there for 3 downs. You have two guys trying to do the work of one guy.

Further, DE in a 3-4 is more valuable than OLB or CB, since it is very hard to find guys that are actually good at it.

Next, has has been stated numerous times already, Fangio runs more of a hybrid 3-4, which sees the D-Line running a 4 man front almost as much as running a 3 man front. When running a 4 man front you need the line to get pressure on the QB from the D-Line, which, apart from Justin Smith, hasn't been very good at it.

Cameron Jordan has flashed a skill set along the lines of a Justin Smith, with a ton of pass rush moves to get to the QB. He was in a 3-4 at CAL, so he doesn't need to be taught the position, unlike many other guys coming out of college. It typically takes at least 3 years, according to most Defensive Coaches in order to even train a guy to be the 5 technique.

Also, Cameron Jordan is very flexible and you could move him around the line.

At the Senior Bowl practices he manhandled everyone and was unblockable. Jordan was one of the first, if not the first, guy that Baalke was seen talking to. And, Cameron Jordan is now projected Top 10.

I think you underestimate his abilities. If you have a shot of having two Justin Smiths on the DL in a 3-4, you do it.

Further, you don't draft based on need, you draft based on the value of the player. As has already been stated, 3-4 DE's are more valuable than any other, outside of NT, for a team running the 3-4.

[ Edited by RedWaltz24 on Jan 29, 2011 at 11:22:07 ]

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by SF69ers:
I would not be mad if we drafted him as long as Patrick Peterson wasn't on the board.

even if he is...pass-rush>>>secondary.

Peterson is a special kind of talent. He's #1 on my draft board and it would be a blessing if he fell to us at 7.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by RedWaltz24:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by RedWaltz24:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by RedWaltz24:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by RedWaltz24:

Originally posted by Sjceruti:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by Sjceruti:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by Sjceruti:
Well seeing you wrote the thread I assume you're all aboard the bandwagon. If were taking an end at 7 it better be Marcel Dareus. I'm not saying Jordan wont be good but not at 7.

Not to mention our ends are solid.

Also you mentioned Tyson Jackson. That didn't quite pan out did it?

Yeah it did for them. There defense is much improved and hes a good player.

He wasn't nearly worthy of the #3 pick. I'm sorry but if you think he is thats awful.
Hes a okay player.

He wasnt really worth the pick but he's still a good player. Not to mention I see that when you're saying"thats awful" your really just saying "youre an idiot". Im not stupid.

BTW Jordan is a better pass rusher than Jackson with a different body type and we're not picking at 3, we're picking at 7 where we should take the BPA. If he can give us a Justin Smith type effort at the spot we should take him.

Yes, I'm the idiot because I think we should improve our weaknesses rather than our strengths. That makes sense bro.

Listen I'm in the minority here obviously because all you apparently want to take the 5th or 6th rated DE at number 7. I'd much rather use the pick on a corner or pass rusher where we actually need a playmaker.

Now you are being silly and haven't paid attention one lick during the off-season if you think Cameron Jordan is the 5th or 6th rated 3-4 DE in the draft.

And if you don't think Cameron Jordan is a "playmaker" then you haven't been paying attention either. That is like saying Justin Smith isn't a playmaker. Imagine having 2 Justin Smiths on the DL at the same time.
BTW, Willis wasn't calling you an idiot in his post. He was revealing the idea that you were calling him an idiot when you said "that's awful" in your previous post.

Agreed and yeah I wasn't calling the guy an idiot. It's like if you can get a guy similar to Justin Smith than you do it. Jordan has the long arms, great technique, a nonstop motor, and a lot of athleticism that would let him have a similar technique. He has quite a few pass rush moves. He will either command a double team or get to the QB. Not to mention the fact than on 3rd downs you pretty much arent in your base D anyway unless its 3rd and 3, you're usually in a nickle situation with 4 DL and 5 DBs. So he could play the end in the 4-2-5 or be moved inside, there's quite a few different things you can do with him. You can move him around quite a bit.

He's a solid player without much weaknesses and quite a bit of potential to get even better. He'll most likely have an immediate impact.

Yeah, my sentiments exactly. The fact that he has been playing a DE in a 3-4 already puts him far ahead of most DE drafted by teams who want to use them as 3-4 DE's. Most are DT in college and have to learn the position, which can take years.

And as you stated, in the Nickle you use a 4 DL front anyway and our Nickle DL front hasn't been able to put much pressure on the QB, except for Justin Smith. Cameron would definitely change that.

Yeah so there will be less of a learning curve for him and he is a beast. I mean everyone wants Fangio to mimic the Packers D with Capers as DC, but what they dont understand is there are some games where they spend very little time in their base defense and they actually play a 4-2-5 for the majority of the game. In fact I believe the guys on NFL network's playbook show were saying there was a game where they only spent 2 plays in their base D, the rest was the nickle.

A team like the Steelers stays in their base defense a lot more, but still. Against teams like Philly with a QB who can scramble or multiple fast WRs you are going to need to be in your nickle D quite a bit. Then you can spy the QB with a hard hitting corner or safety(Packers used Charles Woodson to spy Mike Vick), you can still blitz creatively by sending CB blitzes or safety blitzes, etc. A good DL is a huge part of this. If you look at GB's defense they have Jenkins at DE and Raji and then Pickett. They only have 1 LB that rushes the passer(Matthews). But their DL and DBs are really good.

I would take Cam Jordan without a doubt. I might not take him over Marcel Dareus or Patrick Peterson though. I might not take him over Von Miller. But the QBs or a WR? Yeah definitely. Maybe over Amukamara. But I definitely like his game a lot and he could help us out quite a bit.

To echo your statement. In an interview with that DL NT from Stanford earlier this week who is entering the draft, he stated that they almost spent more time in a 4 DL front than a 3 man front under Fangio. Like I said earlier, Fangio runs more of a hybrid 3-4 than a pure one.

lol Nice. Sounds like we are on the same exact page then. They most likely went 4-2-5 when they faced a spread offense then but I could be wrong. Either way, we are going to need another guy to generate pressure on third downs. Jordan or Dareus FTW

I really do think the Niners should take advantage of the special talent at the top of this draft in the DE position. This a very good year for that position and they aren't easy to find.

Yeah not to mention you can find good DBs later on. Look at the Packers. Woodson was a trade or FA, Tramon Williams was a UDFA, and Sam Shields was a 7th round pick. The Steelers also don't have a first round CB on the team, Ike Taylor was a 3rd, McFadden was a 2nd, and Gay was a 5th round pick. Guys like Aaron Williams and Jimmy Smith will be available in the 2nd round. Kendrick Burney in the 4th or Rashad Carmichael in the 3rd. We can find good DBs outside of the first round.

I would take Peterson if he's there though and I'd consider Amukamara. But would I love it if we drafted Cam Jordan? Definitely.

I bump thee...I totally want to chime in that DB's honestly are a dime a dozen, yeah they're a special breed, but when you have a pass rush, they're not sitting on an island all the time, which is what happen to our squad a lot this year.

Give Nate and Shawntae more time and they'll get burned every time b/c the QB is sitting there, chilling like a villian slicing up our D like Mike Myers on Steroids.

He looks good, but we can get a great player that also fills an immediate need. Defensive line is not a need for rounds 1-3. We have nothing on the outside for a pass rush. Manny Lawson is solid, but Parys shouldn't even be a starter.

If Peterson and Miller are gone Cameron Jordan is next on my wishlist.

sure at 45 or if we trade down but id rather have peterson miller quinn or prince

I still want to draft the guy. He has so much versatility (he has even played standing up) and he is in beast mode on pass rush in a position usually not known for it. I know it won't happen, but I can hope.

Originally posted by Stuuk:
If Peterson and Miller are gone Cameron Jordan is next on my wishlist.

My thoughts also.

ironically usc has a tight end coming out in the draft named jordan cameron...would be really confusing if niners took cameron jordan and jordan cameron

He seems to be a high effort kind of player, and one of the safer choice's in the top part of round # 1. For the large amount of $$$ that the #7 pick would receive on his rookie contract it would be a prudent pick. I am more of a "bird in the hand kind of guy" so geting him at # 7 would work for me, even if it was a slight reach.

Originally posted by hofer36:
ironically usc has a tight end coming out in the draft named jordan cameron...would be really confusing if niners took cameron jordan and jordan cameron

Ironically Cameron's dad Steve was a tight end for the Minnesota Vikings. Would be really scary if Jordan's dad was named Steve.

This has gone too far and el guapo is here to lay down the law and clear this up. There is NO WAY a de is more important in a 3 -4 or hybrid 4 -3 than a pass rushing olb. Ever heard of ware woodley harrison matthews?????? And last time i checked the de we have in justin smith is a lot better than any 3 - 4 de in the league and harrison woodley matthews and ware are all more valuable than even smith a great de. So the statement is not only wrong bit useless to argue.

Sure jordan could help the niners a lot but not as much a great pass rushing lb like miller. Quinn is also better at getting to the qb than jordan....although jordan or quinn would be fine is pp and miller are gone.

And if you think a de in a 3 -4 is more important than a cb you are wrong again. If gb did not have woodson they would lose 3 - 4 more games a year....not true with losing their de. Gbs other 2 cbs getting moved up on the depth chart williams and shields would not nearly be as good without matthews and would struggle on any other team besides maybe pitt and bal.

Originally posted by elguapo:
This has gone too far and el guapo is here to lay down the law and clear this up. There is NO WAY a de is more important in a 3 -4 or hybrid 4 -3 than a pass rushing olb. Ever heard of ware woodley harrison matthews?????? And last time i checked the de we have in justin smith is a lot better than any 3 - 4 de in the league and harrison woodley matthews and ware are all more valuable than even smith a great de. So the statement is not only wrong bit useless to argue.

Sure jordan could help the niners a lot but not as much a great pass rushing lb like miller. Quinn is also better at getting to the qb than jordan....although jordan or quinn would be fine is pp and miller are gone.

And if you think a de in a 3 -4 is more important than a cb you are wrong again. If gb did not have woodson they would lose 3 - 4 more games a year....not true with losing their de. Gbs other 2 cbs getting moved up on the depth chart williams and shields would not nearly be as good without matthews and would struggle on any other team besides maybe pitt and bal.

Everyone else thought that way too and snickered when the Patriots started building their D with their DL (Seymore, Warren, Wilfork). That defense carried them to a few titles. Everyone else also knocked the chiefs for reaching for Tyson Jackson as the Chiefs implimented their D. Hali was concinered a good DE, but behind Jackson he became among the best pass rushers in the league, totaling 14.5.

The Dline is crucial in football, regardless of set.