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Mel Kiper mock

Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by Otter:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by tstej:
Quinn took illegal benefits while in college but what other character issues does he have? I doubt taking some money on the side while playing college ball is a major character issue for nfl teams.

I disagree. It speaks to his integrity, his willingness to break well-known rules and put himself over his team and it calls into question his personal motivation (money or football). Again, not saying he's a total scumbag, but these questions need to be answered to the satisfaction of a team that will be paying this kid millions of dollars to play a team sport.

Weren't you arguing the opposite of these things when it came to Cam Newton?


You guys really need to read what I'm writing. I'm not arguing for or against Cam or Quinn, nor do I personally care what either did. I (me, personally) don't believe either has character issues (like violence, drub habits, coaching issues, etc.) that should keep them from being considered...but teams will likely think differently, given the investment they're about to make.

I'm merely saying, these issues will compel teams to look deeper into their respective characters (more so than other prospects) to figure out what they're really all about. And if they don't like what they find, it will hurt their draft status.

So having a question (which will require due diligence, and that goes for both Quinn and Cam) about a guy's character is not the same as me saying, "this guy absolutely has character issues."

Reading comprehension, guys....please.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Jan 19, 2011 at 12:09 PM ]
Provided QB issues are adequately addressed, I approve of this pick over Prince. This guy could be a once in a blue moon type game changer on defense from what I've read. I doubt that he is available at #7.

The only DB I think may be considered over Quinn would be Peterson, and he'll be gone also. Not sure that Prince is a sure fire "shut-down", like Peterson would be . . . probably. And a disruptive DL is just a bit more valuable than a DB.

Niners can only dream about getting their hands on Quinn.

However, if the niners were lucky enough to select Quinn, I would support their trading back down (as they have done in the past) to pick up Brandon Harris.

All of this presupposes that Harbaugh meanwhile doesn't fall in love with some QB.
Originally posted by TX9R:
Originally posted by rayn36:
Originally posted by TexasNiner:
While I wouldn't hate the selection of Quinn, at this point, it would really make me doubt our drafting strategy if Prince and several others were still on the board.

For years now, I've been as big an advocate for us getting a pass rusher as anyone, and have been super-critical of the team for not drafting one with a higher pick.

However, unless Quinn has a stellar combine, pro-days and interviews, he will likely fall.

Given "character" issues, (which I think are bunk, but could scare off GMs needing to pay top 10 money), and more importantly, being out of football for so long, all it will take is one poor showing, a little extra weight, or even a rumor of bad work ethic, attitude, whatever, to see his stock plummet. He seems like too much of a boom or bust gamble at 7 for a team with RIGHT NOW needs.

Plus, even if he turns out to be great, he will probably need at least a year or so to get back into football shape and another year to really acclimate to the pro game. He's bound to be at least a year behind players who have played this year.

Just look at Michael Vick. Even having played pro ball at a very high level before, his first year back after being away, he was pretty terrible. It wasn't until after a full season of NFL play and a second off season and training camp that he got up to speed again.

Frankly, if we are going pass rusher at 7, I'd feel much safer with Ayers or Von Miller.

Didn't BJ Raji sit out a year at BC? He bounced back fine.

He played the year before he went in to the NFL, that's all that matters. Lotsof dudes miss a year in college for injury, Jordan Shipley missed 2, but the year they get drafted is what matters. There hasn't been a singe player I can think of that did not play for an entire season before entering the league. Dez Bryant had 4 or 5 games at least, but he also can't stay on the field either. this team isn't in the position to take a risk on those type of odds. Not on one year wonders either (Balmer, cough Balmer) you take the safe, solid 3-4 year performer like Prince..

Those are good points. Austin from UNC is showing that rust in Shrine practices. But regarding Balmer, Balmer was not nearly as productive as Quinn. And by all accounts, it seems as though Quinn is hard working and showed consistency. I am not sure what he has been doing all year, but if he shows up to workouts in shape (not worried about football shape at this point), I, personally, would be fine with that risk.
i dont have a problem with college athletes accepting benefits. if youve ever been a college student you know how hard it is with money especially if you arent even allowed to work a job. all athletes do it at some point maybe not thousands but they all are getting something.

i have no concerns about quinns character but what would be the effect of him sitting out for a year. look at clarett and mike williams. they didnt have the raw talent that quinn had but just look how it killed them. that is the only thing i would be concerned about even if he still is working out regularly. game speed is totally different
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by 80849er4life:
C'mon Mel we need the Prince not Bob.

They need both.

It looks like were only gonna be able to one or the other.
Originally posted by TX9R:
Originally posted by rayn36:
Originally posted by TexasNiner:
While I wouldn't hate the selection of Quinn, at this point, it would really make me doubt our drafting strategy if Prince and several others were still on the board.

For years now, I've been as big an advocate for us getting a pass rusher as anyone, and have been super-critical of the team for not drafting one with a higher pick.

However, unless Quinn has a stellar combine, pro-days and interviews, he will likely fall.

Given "character" issues, (which I think are bunk, but could scare off GMs needing to pay top 10 money), and more importantly, being out of football for so long, all it will take is one poor showing, a little extra weight, or even a rumor of bad work ethic, attitude, whatever, to see his stock plummet. He seems like too much of a boom or bust gamble at 7 for a team with RIGHT NOW needs.

Plus, even if he turns out to be great, he will probably need at least a year or so to get back into football shape and another year to really acclimate to the pro game. He's bound to be at least a year behind players who have played this year.

Just look at Michael Vick. Even having played pro ball at a very high level before, his first year back after being away, he was pretty terrible. It wasn't until after a full season of NFL play and a second off season and training camp that he got up to speed again.

Frankly, if we are going pass rusher at 7, I'd feel much safer with Ayers or Von Miller.

Didn't BJ Raji sit out a year at BC? He bounced back fine.

He played the year before he went in to the NFL, that's all that matters. Lotsof dudes miss a year in college for injury, Jordan Shipley missed 2, but the year they get drafted is what matters. There hasn't been a singe player I can think of that did not play for an entire season before entering the league. Dez Bryant had 4 or 5 games at least, but he also can't stay on the field either. this team isn't in the position to take a risk on those type of odds. Not on one year wonders either (Balmer, cough Balmer) you take the safe, solid 3-4 year performer like Prince..

Exactly. It's not about just time, it's about not playing and then coming back as an unknown commodity. Even proven NFL vets who come back from suspensions take time to adjust to the game again.

Let alone a kid who has never played at the NFL level. Who, even if he had played and been a beast this year, would still be a gamble (as is every player) to make the transition to the NFL. Add in that he hasn't played high-level, organized ball in over a year, and it just makes the risk of making that transition significantly higher.

At best, you basically give up a year or two of his first contract as "learning curve" time. At worst, he starts off so far behind the curve that he never catches up.

Just not worth the risk at #7. If we were talking a second rounder or later, for a guy with first round talent, but who fell because of these questions, it would be one thing.

But to invest that much money AND to pass on players with a much higher likelihood of succeeding in the NFL and helping you team in the near future, for me, it's just too big of a risk.
Originally posted by TalkinBoutWILLIS:
i dont have a problem with college athletes accepting benefits. if youve ever been a college student you know how hard it is with money especially if you arent even allowed to work a job. all athletes do it at some point maybe not thousands but they all are getting something.

i have no concerns about quinns character but what would be the effect of him sitting out for a year. look at clarett and mike williams. they didnt have the raw talent that quinn had but just look how it killed them. that is the only thing i would be concerned about even if he still is working out regularly. game speed is totally different

So you may not have a problem with it, but (not to be rude, here) that's irrelevant. The issue is, does your team (and others) have an issue with it, to the point where they decide not to invest top-10 money on a top-ten prospect because of potential character concerns? That's the real question.

Your opinion is duly noted, but you have to factor in what teams might discover as they conduct their due diligence on certain guys.
Me likey.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by TalkinBoutWILLIS:
i dont have a problem with college athletes accepting benefits. if youve ever been a college student you know how hard it is with money especially if you arent even allowed to work a job. all athletes do it at some point maybe not thousands but they all are getting something.

i have no concerns about quinns character but what would be the effect of him sitting out for a year. look at clarett and mike williams. they didnt have the raw talent that quinn had but just look how it killed them. that is the only thing i would be concerned about even if he still is working out regularly. game speed is totally different

So you may not have a problem with it, but (not to be rude, here) that's irrelevant. The issue is, does your team (and others) have an issue with it, to the point where they decide not to invest top-10 money on a top-ten prospect because of potential character concerns? That's the real question.

Your opinion is duly noted, but you have to factor in what teams might discover as they conduct their due diligence on certain guys.

I think the bottom line is that we all agree that it's more or less no big deal that he had a benefits violation.

However, you are right in the fact that, the results of that could hurt him. Not even so much in the true "character issue" way, they way some prospects come out of college with a bad rep.

But the results of his issue is two fold. First, there is now a red flag on him. So, anything that pops up, will now be amplified regardless of if it is legit or not. Teams will be over-analyzing every detail, and unless he is just outstanding at every level of the pre-draft process, any slip up could really affect him.

Plus, being out of football for a year (even if teams think his "character" is fantastic and that his punishment was excessive), means there is less to evaluate and a bigger questions of transitioning to the NFL with having spent a year away from competitive ball.

Once again, it will mean every detail of his workouts/combine will be magnified because he doesn't have a recent season or stellar bowl game to offset what could be one bad workout, 40 time, etc...

Ultimately, it's hard to me to imagine that SOMEWHERE in the process that sitting out a year and the pressure to perform at these events won't catch up with him, and cause him to have a bad performance somewhere. And that will probably end up affecting him more than it should.

He could end up being a steal for a team like the Pats with multiple first/second round picks if he slips a bit.
  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,846
If he's like Julius Peppers I say take him.
Originally posted by TexasNiner:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by TalkinBoutWILLIS:
i dont have a problem with college athletes accepting benefits. if youve ever been a college student you know how hard it is with money especially if you arent even allowed to work a job. all athletes do it at some point maybe not thousands but they all are getting something.

i have no concerns about quinns character but what would be the effect of him sitting out for a year. look at clarett and mike williams. they didnt have the raw talent that quinn had but just look how it killed them. that is the only thing i would be concerned about even if he still is working out regularly. game speed is totally different

So you may not have a problem with it, but (not to be rude, here) that's irrelevant. The issue is, does your team (and others) have an issue with it, to the point where they decide not to invest top-10 money on a top-ten prospect because of potential character concerns? That's the real question.

Your opinion is duly noted, but you have to factor in what teams might discover as they conduct their due diligence on certain guys.

I think the bottom line is that we all agree that it's more or less no big deal that he had a benefits violation.

However, you are right in the fact that, the results of that could hurt him. Not even so much in the true "character issue" way, they way some prospects come out of college with a bad rep.

But the results of his issue is two fold. First, there is now a red flag on him. So, anything that pops up, will now be amplified regardless of if it is legit or not. Teams will be over-analyzing every detail, and unless he is just outstanding at every level of the pre-draft process, any slip up could really affect him.

Plus, being out of football for a year (even if teams think his "character" is fantastic and that his punishment was excessive), means there is less to evaluate and a bigger questions of transitioning to the NFL with having spent a year away from competitive ball.

Once again, it will mean every detail of his workouts/combine will be magnified because he doesn't have a recent season or stellar bowl game to offset what could be one bad workout, 40 time, etc...

Ultimately, it's hard to me to imagine that SOMEWHERE in the process that sitting out a year and the pressure to perform at these events won't catch up with him, and cause him to have a bad performance somewhere. And that will probably end up affecting him more than it should.

He could end up being a steal for a team like the Pats with multiple first/second round picks if he slips a bit.

Agreed, 100%.
We need One of those CBs
He also doesn't have Locker going in the 1st round, I believe.

Personally, I'd be thrilled with either Quinn or Prince, and I'd be ecstatic getting one of those guys AND Locker in the 2nd round.

Locker is not ready at all, but he'd be the perfect developmental QB to turn into something special and he knows the WCO. And it's taking him in the 2nd round when he probably would've gone No. 1 last year had he declared.
  • ptw1
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 128
Originally posted by Gavintech:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I'd be shocked if the Niners picked Quinn. Not a high character guy, and in a position that is not as necessary as CB. The pick in this mock would probably be Prince, or Newton.

The reason I'd be shocked is because I think he's going to drafted before 7. If he's there I have no problem taking him. Talent-wise he may be top 2-3 in the entire draft.

this. if he has a good combine, he goes top 5 easy. if he has a bad combine, he falls to the teens. if he played this year and produced like last year, with his measurables and w/o luck, he would be in the discussion for #1 pick.
Originally posted by susweel:
The last D lineman from NC didn't turn out too well.


Do we draft players or schools?