Von Miller is a must in Rd 1

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by ads_2006:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
I really think we trade up to get this player. We have 2 3rd round picks I believe.

I'd rather keep those two third rounders

We have one 3rd round pick and two 4th rounders.

But yah, that I wouldn't do. I like Miller and think he's going to be a very good 3-4 OLB when it's all said and done, but I wouldn't trade up to get him. I think Robert Quinn, Ryan Kerrigan, Aldon Smith and even Justin Houston can be just as impactful in our 3-4 as Miller.

Ryan Kerrigan would be my pick if we had to choose a pass rushing OLB with our 1st round pick.

Originally posted by NinerGM:
I really think we trade up to get this player. We have 2 3rd round picks I believe.

So you think AZ, too, is eyeing him with #5? I can see it unless they fall for one of the QBs or trades down from that spot for someone wanting one of the QBs.

I hope Baalke leaks out that we want a QB badly at #7 all the while knowing that QB wouldn't be the pick making those behind us with QB needs nervous. They may jump the gun and trade up allowing maybe Peterson and VM to drop.

I really don't want to trade up and lose those picks especially when we can stay put and still land a starter from day one.

Though I'm with GM, I sure love this kid's speed. Who was the last prospect with that kind of explosion in round one?



Graham?
Hughes?
Pierre-Paul?
Maybin?
Orakpo?
English?
Matthews?
Harvey?

BTW, none of those above where top 10 picks. I think Harvey went at #8.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by rayn36:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by rayn36:

Originally posted by ninertico:

Originally posted by rayn36:


VM made a lot of plays in college, but I actually agree with Genus regarding his run def - at least from what I saw in college. He gets swallowed up by linemen. He does not have the size and strength to shed blocks. Too often, when he did not beat the blocker initially, he was not effective. He was hit or miss when pass rushing or in the run.

The only redeeming factor is that I think he will have many free lanes in an aggressive blitzing scheme where his instincts can take over. Also, the fat guys in front of him should make his life easier in more frequently keeping blockers off of him.

But that's the thing, EVERYONE knows about his supposedly lack in run D when all the tape does show a kid willing and able to take on a fattie at over 300 plus, a kid who will drop in coverage against a RB or TE and a kid when we ask to pin the ears back, he does.

When the pros acknowledge his ability to be a three-down backer AND be able to bring it when needed, I just don't understand the stuborness to continue to say that this kid is one-dimensional. He's far from that and the fact that he's now also considered a 4-3 SAM as well, only magnifies his VERSATILITY.

at the fact that Von Miller is a one-dimensional player.

Seriously.

You are right! Those people are very stubborn. He is adequate in coverage and is not a one trick pony.

But it is one thing to be willing to take on blockers and another thing to win those battles. He simply does not have the strength right now.

In the top 10, you should expect to get a difference maker with few weaknesses. Now, if we can hide his lack of stoutness vs the run, we may have something going.

Whoever drafts Miller isn't going to start him right away, or play him on every down in his rookie year (if they're smart). They'll ease him in by placing him in situations that play to his strengths (pass rush) while he works on his technique and strength against the run. By year 2, he should be fine...much stronger, much better technique and understanding of his responsibilities and probably even just as dangerous (if not more) off the edge).

So he's definitely a risk in the top 10-15, but because his skill-set is in such high demand, teams will likely take that risk.

Conceptually, that is a brilliant approach. But most teams - esp those picking in the top half of the draft - don't have the luxury to ease a 1st rounder in. Let's just say that we traded down and picked him in the 10-15 range. Wouldn't you be pissed off to see that we are easing in a top 15 pick? If I am New England, obviously I have that luxury and am in a better position to risk taking him very high.

But it is still early. VM has stated that he is disappointed with his weigh in. He exhibits great work ethic and I am beyond curious as to what his combine weight will be. I think he has the frame to add 10 lbs without sacrificing too much speed because of his wiry frame. Perhaps he will silence all critics come combine time. Idk but we will see.

I wouldn't be pissed off to see us easing in a top 15 pick at all. I wish more teams did that. That said, some prospects have the frame, mentality and the skill to jump right in and succeed (see Iupati), whereas others would benefit from watching first, increasing their knowledge, honing their technique and getting stronger (see Anthony Davis). So long as you're not throwing guys in to the fire that aren't ready yet, you should be fine as a franchise.

Btw, I agree with you on Miller. My initial thought was that we as too small/not stout enough to be a top-10 pick. But I can see the Cards pulling the trigger on him at #5, and wouldn't be at all disappointed if we drafted him at #7 either.

To me, he is a Julian Peterson clone. Peterson was amazing in college as a pass-rusher, and good at the pro-level - but best suited for 4-3 alignment, where he can get protection from the DE.

Top 5 pick is way too high for him, especially when you look at the talent of defensive players at the top of this draft. For a 4-3 team, he will make a lot of sense in top 10, but for a 3-4 team - I am not so sure.

I think Miller is a much more skilled pass rusher than Peterson was (who was a great speed rusher, but didn't have a ton of moves at Michigan St.). That said, if he ended up like JP (5X pro-bowler, 3X all-pro, nearly 50 career sacks for a guy who wasn't primarily asked to rush the passer throughout his career), that wouldn't be a terrible thing for a #7 overall pick. Maybe I'm just a little more conservative in my expectations of these guys than most.

No no, that will be great if he turns out like JP in the pros. I wasn't knocking him for being like JP. I was saying JP's numbers came mostly in a 4-3 defense. So, for a 4-3 team - Miller will make a lot of sense in top 10.

Anytime you draft a guy who makes couple of pro-bowls means you have done exceptionally well. But, I'm not sure if Von Miller is right for our system. He may still be a good player for us, but I think he can be great in 4-3 (like JP).

Quote:
Von Miller-LB-Player Jan. 27 - 12:33 pm et

According to the San Francisco Chronicle, 49ers GM Trent Baalke "hovered" around Texas A&M OLB Von Miller at Wednesday's Senior Bowl practice.

Baalke had his eyes on Miller during pass rush drills, and the former Aggies' Joker end proceeded to blow past a left tackle one-on-one. According to the Chronicle, Miller has been "the playmaker of Senior Bowl week," and South coach Chan Gailey believes Miller would "fit in any (defensive) system." The 49ers draft seventh overall, and have an outside shot at getting him.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=6500

Originally posted by NinerGM:
I really think we trade up to get this player. We have 2 3rd round picks I believe.

Jesus you guys are getting ridiculous now.


Now you want to trade UP to get him?

I'm looking forward to seeing how he does in the game Saturday. I know most scouts and coaches don't care so much about the game but the North clearly has the better offensive line talent.

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by rayn36:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by rayn36:

Originally posted by ninertico:

Originally posted by rayn36:


VM made a lot of plays in college, but I actually agree with Genus regarding his run def - at least from what I saw in college. He gets swallowed up by linemen. He does not have the size and strength to shed blocks. Too often, when he did not beat the blocker initially, he was not effective. He was hit or miss when pass rushing or in the run.

The only redeeming factor is that I think he will have many free lanes in an aggressive blitzing scheme where his instincts can take over. Also, the fat guys in front of him should make his life easier in more frequently keeping blockers off of him.

But that's the thing, EVERYONE knows about his supposedly lack in run D when all the tape does show a kid willing and able to take on a fattie at over 300 plus, a kid who will drop in coverage against a RB or TE and a kid when we ask to pin the ears back, he does.

When the pros acknowledge his ability to be a three-down backer AND be able to bring it when needed, I just don't understand the stuborness to continue to say that this kid is one-dimensional. He's far from that and the fact that he's now also considered a 4-3 SAM as well, only magnifies his VERSATILITY.

at the fact that Von Miller is a one-dimensional player.

Seriously.

You are right! Those people are very stubborn. He is adequate in coverage and is not a one trick pony.

But it is one thing to be willing to take on blockers and another thing to win those battles. He simply does not have the strength right now.

In the top 10, you should expect to get a difference maker with few weaknesses. Now, if we can hide his lack of stoutness vs the run, we may have something going.

Whoever drafts Miller isn't going to start him right away, or play him on every down in his rookie year (if they're smart). They'll ease him in by placing him in situations that play to his strengths (pass rush) while he works on his technique and strength against the run. By year 2, he should be fine...much stronger, much better technique and understanding of his responsibilities and probably even just as dangerous (if not more) off the edge).

So he's definitely a risk in the top 10-15, but because his skill-set is in such high demand, teams will likely take that risk.

Conceptually, that is a brilliant approach. But most teams - esp those picking in the top half of the draft - don't have the luxury to ease a 1st rounder in. Let's just say that we traded down and picked him in the 10-15 range. Wouldn't you be pissed off to see that we are easing in a top 15 pick? If I am New England, obviously I have that luxury and am in a better position to risk taking him very high.

But it is still early. VM has stated that he is disappointed with his weigh in. He exhibits great work ethic and I am beyond curious as to what his combine weight will be. I think he has the frame to add 10 lbs without sacrificing too much speed because of his wiry frame. Perhaps he will silence all critics come combine time. Idk but we will see.

I wouldn't be pissed off to see us easing in a top 15 pick at all. I wish more teams did that. That said, some prospects have the frame, mentality and the skill to jump right in and succeed (see Iupati), whereas others would benefit from watching first, increasing their knowledge, honing their technique and getting stronger (see Anthony Davis). So long as you're not throwing guys in to the fire that aren't ready yet, you should be fine as a franchise.

Btw, I agree with you on Miller. My initial thought was that we as too small/not stout enough to be a top-10 pick. But I can see the Cards pulling the trigger on him at #5, and wouldn't be at all disappointed if we drafted him at #7 either.

To me, he is a Julian Peterson clone. Peterson was amazing in college as a pass-rusher, and good at the pro-level - but best suited for 4-3 alignment, where he can get protection from the DE.

Top 5 pick is way too high for him, especially when you look at the talent of defensive players at the top of this draft. For a 4-3 team, he will make a lot of sense in top 10, but for a 3-4 team - I am not so sure.

I think Miller is a much more skilled pass rusher than Peterson was (who was a great speed rusher, but didn't have a ton of moves at Michigan St.). That said, if he ended up like JP (5X pro-bowler, 3X all-pro, nearly 50 career sacks for a guy who wasn't primarily asked to rush the passer throughout his career), that wouldn't be a terrible thing for a #7 overall pick. Maybe I'm just a little more conservative in my expectations of these guys than most.

No no, that will be great if he turns out like JP in the pros. I wasn't knocking him for being like JP. I was saying JP's numbers came mostly in a 4-3 defense. So, for a 4-3 team - Miller will make a lot of sense in top 10.

Anytime you draft a guy who makes couple of pro-bowls means you have done exceptionally well. But, I'm not sure if Von Miller is right for our system. He may still be a good player for us, but I think he can be great in 4-3 (like JP).

The biggest problem Miller will have in our system is setting the edge in the run game. With his size/frame, I think he could stack on enough weight/strength to mitigate that concern. But what he does best (kill the QB), is what we need the most on defense (IMO).

Originally posted by theginz2004:

Quote:
Von Miller-LB-Player Jan. 27 - 12:33 pm et

According to the San Francisco Chronicle, 49ers GM Trent Baalke "hovered" around Texas A&M OLB Von Miller at Wednesday's Senior Bowl practice.

Baalke had his eyes on Miller during pass rush drills, and the former Aggies' Joker end proceeded to blow past a left tackle one-on-one. According to the Chronicle, Miller has been "the playmaker of Senior Bowl week," and South coach Chan Gailey believes Miller would "fit in any (defensive) system." The 49ers draft seventh overall, and have an outside shot at getting him.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=6500

Sick em Baalke! That's how you do it, up close and personal!

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by ads_2006:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
I really think we trade up to get this player. We have 2 3rd round picks I believe.

I'd rather keep those two third rounders

We have one 3rd round pick and two 4th rounders.

But yah, that I wouldn't do. I like Miller and think he's going to be a very good 3-4 OLB when it's all said and done, but I wouldn't trade up to get him. I think Robert Quinn, Ryan Kerrigan, Aldon Smith and even Justin Houston can be just as impactful in our 3-4 as Miller.

Ryan Kerrigan would be my pick if we had to choose a pass rushing OLB with our 1st round pick.

Well, here you go sir:

"Purdue DE Ryan Kerrigan is the real deal as a pass rusher. He comes off the edge with an exceptional first step, and has the capability to turn speed into power on bull rushes. As a relentless, high-motor rusher with strong hands, he has a knack for quickly shedding blockers. He repeatedly overwhelmed the opposition with his energy, and his ability to get to the quarterback has been impressive. Although there might be other pass rushers with more physical gifts in the draft, Kerrigan has the potential to consistently put up double-digit sacks on the next level."--Bucky Brooks, NFL.com

He definitely could set the edge better now than VM, but VM still beats him in pass rushing which is the focus of our pick, not setting the edge. Still, I love this kid's motor and aggressiveness with his size. Wouldn't be mad if we traded back, but I believe that he won't get passed Wade Phillips at #11.

Now is Kerrigan a top 10 pick?

Originally posted by ninertico:

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by ads_2006:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
I really think we trade up to get this player. We have 2 3rd round picks I believe.

I'd rather keep those two third rounders

We have one 3rd round pick and two 4th rounders.

But yah, that I wouldn't do. I like Miller and think he's going to be a very good 3-4 OLB when it's all said and done, but I wouldn't trade up to get him. I think Robert Quinn, Ryan Kerrigan, Aldon Smith and even Justin Houston can be just as impactful in our 3-4 as Miller.

Ryan Kerrigan would be my pick if we had to choose a pass rushing OLB with our 1st round pick.

Well, here you go sir:

"Purdue DE Ryan Kerrigan is the real deal as a pass rusher. He comes off the edge with an exceptional first step, and has the capability to turn speed into power on bull rushes. As a relentless, high-motor rusher with strong hands, he has a knack for quickly shedding blockers. He repeatedly overwhelmed the opposition with his energy, and his ability to get to the quarterback has been impressive. Although there might be other pass rushers with more physical gifts in the draft, Kerrigan has the potential to consistently put up double-digit sacks on the next level."--Bucky Brooks, NFL.com

He definitely could set the edge better now than VM, but VM still beats him in pass rushing which is the focus of our pick, not setting the edge. Still, I love this kid's motor and aggressiveness with his size. Wouldn't be mad if we traded back, but I believe that he won't get passed Wade Phillips at #11.

Now is Kerrigan a top 10 pick?

The interesting thing too about Kerrigan is that he mentioned in an interview that his football skills were a bit rusty coming into SB week, since Purdue didn't play in a bowl game. He'd been focused mostly on conditioning stuff, so he didn't have his "A" game the first few days. Once he got his legs under him, he began to dominate.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by ads_2006:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
I really think we trade up to get this player. We have 2 3rd round picks I believe.

I'd rather keep those two third rounders

We have one 3rd round pick and two 4th rounders.

But yah, that I wouldn't do. I like Miller and think he's going to be a very good 3-4 OLB when it's all said and done, but I wouldn't trade up to get him. I think Robert Quinn, Ryan Kerrigan, Aldon Smith and even Justin Houston can be just as impactful in our 3-4 as Miller.

I think his size is actually more comparable to a 3-4 ILB. He would be a player who consistently beats interior linemen and makes plays in the backfield. At this point, at OLB, his weaknesses would be magnified and exploited. Fortunately, he has the versatility to be moved around a la Matthews and hopefully will be put in positions to make plays.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by ninertico:

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by ads_2006:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
I really think we trade up to get this player. We have 2 3rd round picks I believe.

I'd rather keep those two third rounders

We have one 3rd round pick and two 4th rounders.

But yah, that I wouldn't do. I like Miller and think he's going to be a very good 3-4 OLB when it's all said and done, but I wouldn't trade up to get him. I think Robert Quinn, Ryan Kerrigan, Aldon Smith and even Justin Houston can be just as impactful in our 3-4 as Miller.

Ryan Kerrigan would be my pick if we had to choose a pass rushing OLB with our 1st round pick.

Well, here you go sir:

"Purdue DE Ryan Kerrigan is the real deal as a pass rusher. He comes off the edge with an exceptional first step, and has the capability to turn speed into power on bull rushes. As a relentless, high-motor rusher with strong hands, he has a knack for quickly shedding blockers. He repeatedly overwhelmed the opposition with his energy, and his ability to get to the quarterback has been impressive. Although there might be other pass rushers with more physical gifts in the draft, Kerrigan has the potential to consistently put up double-digit sacks on the next level."--Bucky Brooks, NFL.com

He definitely could set the edge better now than VM, but VM still beats him in pass rushing which is the focus of our pick, not setting the edge. Still, I love this kid's motor and aggressiveness with his size. Wouldn't be mad if we traded back, but I believe that he won't get passed Wade Phillips at #11.

Now is Kerrigan a top 10 pick?

The interesting thing too about Kerrigan is that he mentioned in an interview that his football skills were a bit rusty coming into SB week, since Purdue didn't play in a bowl game. He'd been focused mostly on conditioning stuff, so he didn't have his "A" game the first few days. Once he got his legs under him, he began to dominate.

I truly do see and agree with your points about VM's lack of girth being a liability in the run. That is certainly not the case with Kerrigan. Kerrigan reminds me a lot of Graham, relentless and always around the ball. Kerrigan moves OTs, VM doesn't, yet, not like that anyway. You could see the difference in the small amounts of clips out there on both players.

There's a Youtube vid of VM against Texas. He gets stonewalled so many times, yet he's just an incredible pass rusher. With Kerrigan, he stonewalls OTs. Can VM bulk up to Kerrigan's girth, just won't happen.

That's why this game will be telling when VM goes against the best OTs on the North squad.

I'm not feeling Miller at 7, something just screams NO to me.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by rayn36:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by rayn36:

Originally posted by ninertico:

Originally posted by rayn36:


VM made a lot of plays in college, but I actually agree with Genus regarding his run def - at least from what I saw in college. He gets swallowed up by linemen. He does not have the size and strength to shed blocks. Too often, when he did not beat the blocker initially, he was not effective. He was hit or miss when pass rushing or in the run.

The only redeeming factor is that I think he will have many free lanes in an aggressive blitzing scheme where his instincts can take over. Also, the fat guys in front of him should make his life easier in more frequently keeping blockers off of him.

But that's the thing, EVERYONE knows about his supposedly lack in run D when all the tape does show a kid willing and able to take on a fattie at over 300 plus, a kid who will drop in coverage against a RB or TE and a kid when we ask to pin the ears back, he does.

When the pros acknowledge his ability to be a three-down backer AND be able to bring it when needed, I just don't understand the stuborness to continue to say that this kid is one-dimensional. He's far from that and the fact that he's now also considered a 4-3 SAM as well, only magnifies his VERSATILITY.

at the fact that Von Miller is a one-dimensional player.

Seriously.

You are right! Those people are very stubborn. He is adequate in coverage and is not a one trick pony.

But it is one thing to be willing to take on blockers and another thing to win those battles. He simply does not have the strength right now.

In the top 10, you should expect to get a difference maker with few weaknesses. Now, if we can hide his lack of stoutness vs the run, we may have something going.

Whoever drafts Miller isn't going to start him right away, or play him on every down in his rookie year (if they're smart). They'll ease him in by placing him in situations that play to his strengths (pass rush) while he works on his technique and strength against the run. By year 2, he should be fine...much stronger, much better technique and understanding of his responsibilities and probably even just as dangerous (if not more) off the edge).

So he's definitely a risk in the top 10-15, but because his skill-set is in such high demand, teams will likely take that risk.

Conceptually, that is a brilliant approach. But most teams - esp those picking in the top half of the draft - don't have the luxury to ease a 1st rounder in. Let's just say that we traded down and picked him in the 10-15 range. Wouldn't you be pissed off to see that we are easing in a top 15 pick? If I am New England, obviously I have that luxury and am in a better position to risk taking him very high.

But it is still early. VM has stated that he is disappointed with his weigh in. He exhibits great work ethic and I am beyond curious as to what his combine weight will be. I think he has the frame to add 10 lbs without sacrificing too much speed because of his wiry frame. Perhaps he will silence all critics come combine time. Idk but we will see.

I wouldn't be pissed off to see us easing in a top 15 pick at all. I wish more teams did that. That said, some prospects have the frame, mentality and the skill to jump right in and succeed (see Iupati), whereas others would benefit from watching first, increasing their knowledge, honing their technique and getting stronger (see Anthony Davis). So long as you're not throwing guys in to the fire that aren't ready yet, you should be fine as a franchise.

Btw, I agree with you on Miller. My initial thought was that we as too small/not stout enough to be a top-10 pick. But I can see the Cards pulling the trigger on him at #5, and wouldn't be at all disappointed if we drafted him at #7 either.

To me, he is a Julian Peterson clone. Peterson was amazing in college as a pass-rusher, and good at the pro-level - but best suited for 4-3 alignment, where he can get protection from the DE.

Top 5 pick is way too high for him, especially when you look at the talent of defensive players at the top of this draft. For a 4-3 team, he will make a lot of sense in top 10, but for a 3-4 team - I am not so sure.

I think Miller is a much more skilled pass rusher than Peterson was (who was a great speed rusher, but didn't have a ton of moves at Michigan St.). That said, if he ended up like JP (5X pro-bowler, 3X all-pro, nearly 50 career sacks for a guy who wasn't primarily asked to rush the passer throughout his career), that wouldn't be a terrible thing for a #7 overall pick. Maybe I'm just a little more conservative in my expectations of these guys than most.

No no, that will be great if he turns out like JP in the pros. I wasn't knocking him for being like JP. I was saying JP's numbers came mostly in a 4-3 defense. So, for a 4-3 team - Miller will make a lot of sense in top 10.

Anytime you draft a guy who makes couple of pro-bowls means you have done exceptionally well. But, I'm not sure if Von Miller is right for our system. He may still be a good player for us, but I think he can be great in 4-3 (like JP).

The biggest problem Miller will have in our system is setting the edge in the run game. With his size/frame, I think he could stack on enough weight/strength to mitigate that concern. But what he does best (kill the QB), is what we need the most on defense (IMO).

Yea, he is a damn good pass rusher. But, wouldn't you agree that there are couple other just as good rushers as Von that will be available at 7? And, if we are picking a pass rusher at 7, shouldn't we get one who can play the pass and the run?

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by rayn36:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by rayn36:

Originally posted by ninertico:

Originally posted by rayn36:


VM made a lot of plays in college, but I actually agree with Genus regarding his run def - at least from what I saw in college. He gets swallowed up by linemen. He does not have the size and strength to shed blocks. Too often, when he did not beat the blocker initially, he was not effective. He was hit or miss when pass rushing or in the run.

The only redeeming factor is that I think he will have many free lanes in an aggressive blitzing scheme where his instincts can take over. Also, the fat guys in front of him should make his life easier in more frequently keeping blockers off of him.

But that's the thing, EVERYONE knows about his supposedly lack in run D when all the tape does show a kid willing and able to take on a fattie at over 300 plus, a kid who will drop in coverage against a RB or TE and a kid when we ask to pin the ears back, he does.

When the pros acknowledge his ability to be a three-down backer AND be able to bring it when needed, I just don't understand the stuborness to continue to say that this kid is one-dimensional. He's far from that and the fact that he's now also considered a 4-3 SAM as well, only magnifies his VERSATILITY.

at the fact that Von Miller is a one-dimensional player.

Seriously.

You are right! Those people are very stubborn. He is adequate in coverage and is not a one trick pony.

But it is one thing to be willing to take on blockers and another thing to win those battles. He simply does not have the strength right now.

In the top 10, you should expect to get a difference maker with few weaknesses. Now, if we can hide his lack of stoutness vs the run, we may have something going.

Whoever drafts Miller isn't going to start him right away, or play him on every down in his rookie year (if they're smart). They'll ease him in by placing him in situations that play to his strengths (pass rush) while he works on his technique and strength against the run. By year 2, he should be fine...much stronger, much better technique and understanding of his responsibilities and probably even just as dangerous (if not more) off the edge).

So he's definitely a risk in the top 10-15, but because his skill-set is in such high demand, teams will likely take that risk.

Conceptually, that is a brilliant approach. But most teams - esp those picking in the top half of the draft - don't have the luxury to ease a 1st rounder in. Let's just say that we traded down and picked him in the 10-15 range. Wouldn't you be pissed off to see that we are easing in a top 15 pick? If I am New England, obviously I have that luxury and am in a better position to risk taking him very high.

But it is still early. VM has stated that he is disappointed with his weigh in. He exhibits great work ethic and I am beyond curious as to what his combine weight will be. I think he has the frame to add 10 lbs without sacrificing too much speed because of his wiry frame. Perhaps he will silence all critics come combine time. Idk but we will see.

I wouldn't be pissed off to see us easing in a top 15 pick at all. I wish more teams did that. That said, some prospects have the frame, mentality and the skill to jump right in and succeed (see Iupati), whereas others would benefit from watching first, increasing their knowledge, honing their technique and getting stronger (see Anthony Davis). So long as you're not throwing guys in to the fire that aren't ready yet, you should be fine as a franchise.

Btw, I agree with you on Miller. My initial thought was that we as too small/not stout enough to be a top-10 pick. But I can see the Cards pulling the trigger on him at #5, and wouldn't be at all disappointed if we drafted him at #7 either.

To me, he is a Julian Peterson clone. Peterson was amazing in college as a pass-rusher, and good at the pro-level - but best suited for 4-3 alignment, where he can get protection from the DE.

Top 5 pick is way too high for him, especially when you look at the talent of defensive players at the top of this draft. For a 4-3 team, he will make a lot of sense in top 10, but for a 3-4 team - I am not so sure.

I think Miller is a much more skilled pass rusher than Peterson was (who was a great speed rusher, but didn't have a ton of moves at Michigan St.). That said, if he ended up like JP (5X pro-bowler, 3X all-pro, nearly 50 career sacks for a guy who wasn't primarily asked to rush the passer throughout his career), that wouldn't be a terrible thing for a #7 overall pick. Maybe I'm just a little more conservative in my expectations of these guys than most.

No no, that will be great if he turns out like JP in the pros. I wasn't knocking him for being like JP. I was saying JP's numbers came mostly in a 4-3 defense. So, for a 4-3 team - Miller will make a lot of sense in top 10.

Anytime you draft a guy who makes couple of pro-bowls means you have done exceptionally well. But, I'm not sure if Von Miller is right for our system. He may still be a good player for us, but I think he can be great in 4-3 (like JP).

The biggest problem Miller will have in our system is setting the edge in the run game. With his size/frame, I think he could stack on enough weight/strength to mitigate that concern. But what he does best (kill the QB), is what we need the most on defense (IMO).

Yea, he is a damn good pass rusher. But, wouldn't you agree that there are couple other just as good rushers as Von that will be available at 7? And, if we are picking a pass rusher at 7, shouldn't we get one who can play the pass and the run?

Yah, I'm not saying we have to or should grab Miller at #7. I'd be very happy with some of the other guys at #7, or even trading back a bit and grabbing talent a little bit later. I'm just saying, focusing too much on what a guy weighs in late January is a little short-sighted as a draft strategy.

In other words, with his frame (almost 6'3" and not a lot of muscle tone according to observers), it's not really a stretch to imagine him at 245 by the time the combine rolls around in a month, or even showing up to an August training camp at 250 (with more weight/muscle/strength).

By his second season, it's not beyond the realm for him to be a solid 250-255, which is on point with a lot of 3-4 OLBs.