Would you Trade away our #1 in 2012 to Move up for Luck?

Originally posted by j3xperience:
I would only if Harbaugh is attached. I think the BCS screwing him and his brother doing well in the NFL he comes.

I think Luck only comes out if the CBA is in place for no lock out or he stays and does 1 more year of college.

But to answer the question, yes, but only for Luck. My dream would be draft patterson out of LSU this year luck stays in. We end up wit hthe 1st pick overall next year and draft Luck.

We are way to talented to be the worst team in the league with new a new coaching staff next year to win the top overall pick

Originally posted by SF69ers:

The NY Giants traded away their 2004 first round pick (Phillip Rivers) and their 2005 first round pick (Shawne Merriman) for Eli Manning.

and where is your argument? merriman was one of the best pass-rushers of the league in his first years and rivers is the much better QB...eli plays a good season but he benefits from a wonderful running game and a tremendous defense, too.

Yes, I would. There's always time to move back up into the 1st round in 2012.

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by SF69ers:

The NY Giants traded away their 2004 first round pick (Phillip Rivers) and their 2005 first round pick (Shawne Merriman) for Eli Manning.

and where is your argument? merriman was one of the best pass-rushers of the league in his first years and rivers is the much better QB...eli plays a good season but he benefits from a wonderful running game and a tremendous defense, too.

Merriman was good when he was on the juice....."his first few years"

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by SF69ers:

The NY Giants traded away their 2004 first round pick (Phillip Rivers) and their 2005 first round pick (Shawne Merriman) for Eli Manning.

and where is your argument? merriman was one of the best pass-rushers of the league in his first years and rivers is the much better QB...eli plays a good season but he benefits from a wonderful running game and a tremendous defense, too.

Merriman was good when he was on the juice....."his first few years"

Merriman posted a 12.5 sack season after the juice, it was after his knee injury he hasn't done a thing. But save that for another thread.

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by SF69ers:

The NY Giants traded away their 2004 first round pick (Phillip Rivers) and their 2005 first round pick (Shawne Merriman) for Eli Manning.

and where is your argument? merriman was one of the best pass-rushers of the league in his first years and rivers is the much better QB...eli plays a good season but he benefits from a wonderful running game and a tremendous defense, too.

My argument was that it has been done before and has been successful for both teams. You really can't say Rivers is better than Manning. If you look at numbers, than yes, Rivers is a better fantasy football option, but Manning has the ring. Under Norv Turner, they are a pass happy team that IMO had way more talent than the Giants on offense. LT, Michael Turner, Sproles, Vincent Jackson, Gates, etc. which is why helps Rivers succeed.

Eli Manning works in an offense that does rely on the running game more, but he can make plays through the air. And he also does this with less talent. With Jacobs' production declining, Bradshaw not performing well, Manning has to throw more often and the Giants are considered the team to beat in the NFC.

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You really can't say Rivers is better than Manning.

I can't??? I've done it already.

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If you look at numbers, than yes, Rivers is a better fantasy football option, but Manning has the ring.

that's the problem with rivers and eli...only b/c eli has the ring, he is such a good QB.

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Under Norv Turner, they are a pass happy team that IMO had way more talent than the Giants on offense. LT, Michael Turner, Sproles, Vincent Jackson, Gates, etc. which is why helps Rivers succeed.

Lt is gone, turner is gone, sproles isn't a factor at all, VJ was suspended the first 6 games...only gates is there. and rivers still succeeds.

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Eli Manning works in an offense that does rely on the running game more, but he can make plays through the air. And he also does this with less talent. With Jacobs' production declining, Bradshaw not performing well, Manning has to throw more often and the Giants are considered the team to beat in the NFC.

rivers proved the whole season that he can work with non-talent...

Originally posted by communist:

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You really can't say Rivers is better than Manning.

I can't??? I've done it already.

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If you look at numbers, than yes, Rivers is a better fantasy football option, but Manning has the ring.

that's the problem with rivers and eli...only b/c eli has the ring, he is such a good QB.

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Under Norv Turner, they are a pass happy team that IMO had way more talent than the Giants on offense. LT, Michael Turner, Sproles, Vincent Jackson, Gates, etc. which is why helps Rivers succeed.

Lt is gone, turner is gone, sproles isn't a factor at all, VJ was suspended the first 6 games...only gates is there. and rivers still succeeds.

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Eli Manning works in an offense that does rely on the running game more, but he can make plays through the air. And he also does this with less talent. With Jacobs' production declining, Bradshaw not performing well, Manning has to throw more often and the Giants are considered the team to beat in the NFC.

rivers proved the whole season that he can work with non-talent...

You place so much emphasis in statistics. Well guess what, Rivers hasn't helped his team through the hump. They couldn't even beat the Jets last year when they were the heavy favorites. And how about when LT was still legit and they had all their players, they still couldn't do it. How about right now in the weak AFC West? The Chargers are second to last in their division. He's still putting up great numbers but it doesn't help his team win.

Originally posted by SF69ers:

You place so much emphasis in statistics. Well guess what, Rivers hasn't helped his team through the hump. They couldn't even beat the Jets last year when they were the heavy favorites. And how about when LT was still legit and they had all their players, they still couldn't do it. How about right now in the weak AFC West? The Chargers are second to last in their division. He's still putting up great numbers but it doesn't help his team win.

you wouldn't argue that way if u have seen a few chargers'games...
let's look at the pats game:
a lot of turnovers by the chargers, incl. a rivers' 2 fumbles and int...still, rivers could manage to come from a 6-23 deficit with about 11 minutes to play and they would have gone in OT if the kicker didn't miss the field goal in the last second. rivers did his job there!!!
look at the seahawks game...T W O special teams TDs and 3 fumbles...what should he do??? he killed the chickens' secondary...he even managed to throw a TD and a 2p-conversion in back-to-back tries (b/c of penalties).
yes, the 2nd int was a costly one but it happens...he didn't lose this game, the special teams and the fumblers did.
yesterday he managed throwing to a unknown...

it's all about rivers in san diego...

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by SF69ers:

You place so much emphasis in statistics. Well guess what, Rivers hasn't helped his team through the hump. They couldn't even beat the Jets last year when they were the heavy favorites. And how about when LT was still legit and they had all their players, they still couldn't do it. How about right now in the weak AFC West? The Chargers are second to last in their division. He's still putting up great numbers but it doesn't help his team win.

you wouldn't argue that way if u have seen a few chargers'games...
let's look at the pats game:
a lot of turnovers by the chargers, incl. a rivers' 2 fumbles and int...still, rivers could manage to come from a 6-23 deficit with about 11 minutes to play and they would have gone in OT if the kicker didn't miss the field goal in the last second. rivers did his job there!!!
look at the seahawks game...T W O special teams TDs and 3 fumbles...what should he do??? he killed the chickens' secondary...he even managed to throw a TD and a 2p-conversion in back-to-back tries (b/c of penalties).
yes, the 2nd int was a costly one but it happens...he didn't lose this game, the special teams and the fumblers did.
yesterday he managed throwing to a unknown...

it's all about rivers in san diego...

Like I stated before, Rivers is good, but I'd take Eli Manning over him. He has done more for his whole team with less talent IMO than Rivers has.

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Like I stated before, Rivers is good, but I'd take Eli Manning over him. He has done more for his whole team with less talent IMO than Rivers has.

no, he didn't...eli is overrated and the reason is the ring.

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Like I stated before, Rivers is good, but I'd take Eli Manning over him. He has done more for his whole team with less talent IMO than Rivers has.

no, he didn't...eli is overrated and the reason is the ring.

How is he overrated?! Cus his last name is Manning?! Come on. You never give credit when it's due. When your mind is made up, you stick with it even when your argument is ridiculous. Manning is a very good QB and it shows even with less talent.

He won the Super Bowl with Plaxico Burriss as his main target. Amani Toomer was his second option. Shockey was injured most of that yr and he succeed with Kevin Boss as his tight end. Brandon Jacobs was the main back. Now compare that to Rivers that same yr with LT, Turner, Sproles, Jackson, Chambers, Gates.

But you're right. Never going over the hump shouldn't all fall to Rivers' lap.

From ProFootballWeekly:

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With yet another huge outing Sunday in which he threw for 290 yards and three TDs, Giants QB Eli Manning(notes) is officially on a tear. He's up to 17 scoring tosses on the season; only Philip Rivers(notes) and Drew Brees(notes) have more, and they have each played an extra game. Manning also has New York on a five-game winning streak.

While he's been far from perfect this year with 11 interceptions, Eli has been prolific more often than not. He has a whopping 12 TD passes in his last four games, and he has six multi-TD outings in eight contests this season.

Originally posted by SF69ers:



How is he overrated?! Cus his last name is Manning?! Come on. You never give credit when it's due. When your mind is made up, you stick with it even when your argument is ridiculous. Manning is a very good QB and it shows even with less talent.

He won the Super Bowl with Plaxico Burriss as his main target. Amani Toomer was his second option. Shockey was injured most of that yr and he succeed with Kevin Boss as his tight end. Brandon Jacobs was the main back. Now compare that to Rivers that same yr with LT, Turner, Sproles, Jackson, Chambers, Gates.

But you're right. Never going over the hump shouldn't all fall to Rivers' lap.

like i have already said: look at the chargers now...no real help by the RBs and no talent at all, except of gates...rivers still do it.
i wanna see eli manning in the same situation...and with burress and a working running game it's not the same situation at all.

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Of course the play calling needs to be better. However, the NFL is a QB league and you simply arent going to win unless you have a very good one. The Niners don't and wont win until they do. Alex Smith sucks. It's time to go get a real impact player and do what it takes to get Andrew Luck.

only stupid organisations like the raiders the last few years trade their future 1st-rounders away...or like the bears (nothing against cutler but this was way too much...).

The Giants gave up a TON of picks including 2 first rounders to get Eli.
How do you think that has worked out for them?

We have enough pieces of the pie. A young OL gaining experience by the minute. A future studdly WR, a Beast at RB and TE. All we need is a QB that isnt afraid with all the intangibles....Luck. I would trade our future 1st to a QB coached up by NFL coaches....and a local guy that would make sense for the organization to reach for.

Thankfully this draft is loaded with QBs this year. So if we possibly make a move with Buffalo, they can still get a good QB, Locker, or Mallet.

I agree with this 100%. Trade up for Luck and sign Harbaugh as our coach and we will become a force within 2 years in my opinion. Luck has everything you need to be successful in the NFL... smart, good arm, excellent feet. Dradt him and coach him well and giving up a first round pick will be WELL WORTH IT.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

I agree with this 100%. Trade up for Luck and sign Harbaugh as our coach and we will become a force within 2 years in my opinion. Luck has everything you need to be successful in the NFL... smart, good arm, excellent feet. Dradt him and coach him well and giving up a first round pick will be WELL WORTH IT.

if we will success, we have to wait until the late 2nd round of the draft...and we have too many future holes in the team to pass up on so much talent. look at FS, both CBs, ilb, at least one olb and perhaps a nt.
and if we still suck, it means that we can't get a top-draft prospect...

no, thx...let's get a good qb-coach and draft a QB with our REGULAR first- or 2nd-round pick.