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OT Tiers Drop-off after Williams)...Might need to pass on OT in the first round

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I think they should pass at #13 almost for sure. They will get a 2nd tier Tackle if they take one there. The top 4 - 5 could easily be gone. Why get a 2nd tier Tackle when they can get CJ Spiller at #13 and Brandon Graham at #17?

Get a Tackle in the 2nd round. You should be able to find a RT in the 2nd round. It's overrated to say you need a RT in the 1st round. In fact if you picking in the 1st that person should be able to play LT.

Yeah that sounds good if the top 5 are gone. But the OP was asking if the top three were gone. If either Campbell or Davis are still around, do we take one of the 'flawed' 1st round tackles?
I believe that Okung, Bulaga and Williams and maybe even Campbell will all be off the board by the time 13 rolls around.

Davis scares me.. I think there is a lot of Andre Smith in him and who needs an immature, overweight, overpaid and unmotivated OT..

I am not sure I like the Gaither trade idea.. If he was any good, why would Baltimore be letting him walk this early in his career, besides, he would be looking for LT money.

So, as someone else suggested, our best play might just be to trade back in the first to somewhere around 25 and grab Saffold of Brown and pick up another 2nd in the process.
If the top 4 OTs are gone by #13, I think McCloughan will go BPA with that first pick (Joe Haden, Derrick Morgan or maybe JPP) then look hard at trading back with the #17 pick and grabbing someone like Charles Brown or Rodger Saffold later in the 1st.

Worse case, I think they grab Iupati at #17 and convert him to RT.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Mar 13, 2010 at 11:51 AM ]
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Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
I believe that Okung, Bulaga and Williams and maybe even Campbell will all be off the board by the time 13 rolls around.

Davis scares me.. I think there is a lot of Andre Smith in him and who needs an immature, overweight, overpaid and unmotivated OT..

I am not sure I like the Gaither trade idea.. If he was any good, why would Baltimore be letting him walk this early in his career, besides, he would be looking for LT money.

So, as someone else suggested, our best play might just be to trade back in the first to somewhere around 25 and grab Saffold of Brown and pick up another 2nd in the process.

From the way it looks on some mocks, can't drop past #22 of NE.,cause GB #23 & Bal.#25 both may grab an OT.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
If the top 4 OTs are gone by #13, I think McCloughan will go BPA with that first pick (Joe Haden, Derrick Morgan or maybe JPP) then look hard at trading back with the #17 pick and grabbing someone like Charles Brown or Rodger Saffold later in the 1st.

Worse case, I think they grab Iupati at #17 and convert him to RT.

BPA!!! If we got, for example, JPP and Spiller (who I see there at 17), and another good player, whether it be OL or not, in the 2nd, our team gains the talent to be a playoff team. We would have been in the playoffs last year if instead of Battle fumbling punts, we would have Spiller taking them all the way back. If we had Spiller in the backfield to stretch the defense horizontally, instead of stacking 9 down the middle to try and stop Gore. If we had JPP actually chasing down VY and Shaub, and maybe even Manning. If we could constantly pressure QBs the way we did with Warner last year. If we had a CB with speed, if we had a QB of course. etc etc etc. Of course O-line is a huge need, but if we upgrade all across the board, we can be a playoff team without upgrading this one position. We should only draft an OT if he's the BPA
[ Edited by RollinWith21n52 on Mar 13, 2010 at 1:06 PM ]
Originally posted by cupcheck:
Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
I believe that Okung, Bulaga and Williams and maybe even Campbell will all be off the board by the time 13 rolls around.

Davis scares me.. I think there is a lot of Andre Smith in him and who needs an immature, overweight, overpaid and unmotivated OT..

I am not sure I like the Gaither trade idea.. If he was any good, why would Baltimore be letting him walk this early in his career, besides, he would be looking for LT money.

So, as someone else suggested, our best play might just be to trade back in the first to somewhere around 25 and grab Saffold of Brown and pick up another 2nd in the process.

From the way it looks on some mocks, can't drop past #22 of NE.,cause GB #23 & Bal.#25 both may grab an OT.

You may be right, I just threw the #25 out there arbitrarily.

OTs are always in demand and this year is no different than recent years. There could potentially be 7 OTs selected in the first round if Brown and Saffold get picked in the 1st.

If that turns out to be the case then nearly 22% of all 1st rounders will have been OTs.
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
If the top 4 OTs are gone by #13, I think McCloughan will go BPA with that first pick (Joe Haden, Derrick Morgan or maybe JPP) then look hard at trading back with the #17 pick and grabbing someone like Charles Brown or Rodger Saffold later in the 1st.

Worse case, I think they grab Iupati at #17 and convert him to RT.

BPA!!! If we got, for example, JPP and Spiller (who I see there at 17), and another good player, whether it be OL or not, in the 2nd, our team gains the talent to be a playoff team. We would have been in the playoffs last year if instead of Battle fumbling punts, we would have Spiller taking them all the way back. If we had Spiller in the backfield to stretch the defense horizontally, instead of stacking 9 down the middle to try and stop Gore. If we had JPP actually chasing down VY and Shaub, and maybe even Manning. If we could constantly pressure QBs the way we did with Warner last year. If we had a CB with speed, if we had a QB of course. etc etc etc. Of course O-line is a huge need, but if we upgrade all across the board, we can be a playoff team without upgrading this one position. We should only draft an OT if he's the BPA

I just can't see us being a playoff team with the worst line in professional football. I hear what you are saying about BPA. But everything starts with the lines. And our O was dismal. Ignore it at your peril.
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
If the top 4 OTs are gone by #13, I think McCloughan will go BPA with that first pick (Joe Haden, Derrick Morgan or maybe JPP) then look hard at trading back with the #17 pick and grabbing someone like Charles Brown or Rodger Saffold later in the 1st.

Worse case, I think they grab Iupati at #17 and convert him to RT.

BPA!!! If we got, for example, JPP and Spiller (who I see there at 17), and another good player, whether it be OL or not, in the 2nd, our team gains the talent to be a playoff team. We would have been in the playoffs last year if instead of Battle fumbling punts, we would have Spiller taking them all the way back. If we had Spiller in the backfield to stretch the defense horizontally, instead of stacking 9 down the middle to try and stop Gore. If we had JPP actually chasing down VY and Shaub, and maybe even Manning. If we could constantly pressure QBs the way we did with Warner last year. If we had a CB with speed, if we had a QB of course. etc etc etc. Of course O-line is a huge need, but if we upgrade all across the board, we can be a playoff team without upgrading this one position. We should only draft an OT if he's the BPA

I just can't see us being a playoff team with the worst line in professional football. I hear what you are saying about BPA. But everything starts with the lines. And our O was dismal. Ignore it at your peril.

Most would agree with your point. However, do you reach for a lesser talent at #13 just to fill a need, or do you choose the best talent available with that first 1st rounder then manuever to grab an OT a little later (getting better value and possibly even another pick or two)?

I say, especially in the 1st round, always draft for value with an eye towards need, but never reach JUST to fill a need and bypass great talent.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
If the top 4 OTs are gone by #13, I think McCloughan will go BPA with that first pick (Joe Haden, Derrick Morgan or maybe JPP) then look hard at trading back with the #17 pick and grabbing someone like Charles Brown or Rodger Saffold later in the 1st.

Worse case, I think they grab Iupati at #17 and convert him to RT.

BPA!!! If we got, for example, JPP and Spiller (who I see there at 17), and another good player, whether it be OL or not, in the 2nd, our team gains the talent to be a playoff team. We would have been in the playoffs last year if instead of Battle fumbling punts, we would have Spiller taking them all the way back. If we had Spiller in the backfield to stretch the defense horizontally, instead of stacking 9 down the middle to try and stop Gore. If we had JPP actually chasing down VY and Shaub, and maybe even Manning. If we could constantly pressure QBs the way we did with Warner last year. If we had a CB with speed, if we had a QB of course. etc etc etc. Of course O-line is a huge need, but if we upgrade all across the board, we can be a playoff team without upgrading this one position. We should only draft an OT if he's the BPA

I just can't see us being a playoff team with the worst line in professional football. I hear what you are saying about BPA. But everything starts with the lines. And our O was dismal. Ignore it at your peril.

Most would agree with your point. However, do you reach for a lesser talent at #13 just to fill a need, or do you choose the best talent available with that first 1st rounder then manuever to grab an OT a little later (getting better value and possibly even another pick or two)?

I say, especially in the 1st round, always draft for value with an eye towards need, but never reach JUST to fill a need and bypass great talent.



amen.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I think they should pass at #13 almost for sure. They will get a 2nd tier Tackle if they take one there. The top 4 - 5 could easily be gone. Why get a 2nd tier Tackle when they can get CJ Spiller at #13 and Brandon Graham at #17?

Get a Tackle in the 2nd round. You should be able to find a RT in the 2nd round. It's overrated to say you need a RT in the 1st round. In fact if you picking in the 1st that person should be able to play LT.

I think if Williams is there we have to pull the trigger on him. If he is gone, then Joe Haden or CJ Spiller is going to have to be there at 13 and we should take one of them. My preference is Haden but wouldnt be upset with Spiller at all. If either are still available at 17 then obiously I would want them. Graham would be a great alternative if they are gone.

#13 Williams, Haden, or Spiller
#17 Haden, Spiller, or Graham
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
If the top 4 OTs are gone by #13, I think McCloughan will go BPA with that first pick (Joe Haden, Derrick Morgan or maybe JPP) then look hard at trading back with the #17 pick and grabbing someone like Charles Brown or Rodger Saffold later in the 1st.

Worse case, I think they grab Iupati at #17 and convert him to RT.

BPA!!! If we got, for example, JPP and Spiller (who I see there at 17), and another good player, whether it be OL or not, in the 2nd, our team gains the talent to be a playoff team. We would have been in the playoffs last year if instead of Battle fumbling punts, we would have Spiller taking them all the way back. If we had Spiller in the backfield to stretch the defense horizontally, instead of stacking 9 down the middle to try and stop Gore. If we had JPP actually chasing down VY and Shaub, and maybe even Manning. If we could constantly pressure QBs the way we did with Warner last year. If we had a CB with speed, if we had a QB of course. etc etc etc. Of course O-line is a huge need, but if we upgrade all across the board, we can be a playoff team without upgrading this one position. We should only draft an OT if he's the BPA

I just can't see us being a playoff team with the worst line in professional football. I hear what you are saying about BPA. But everything starts with the lines. And our O was dismal. Ignore it at your peril.

Most would agree with your point. However, do you reach for a lesser talent at #13 just to fill a need, or do you choose the best talent available with that first 1st rounder then manuever to grab an OT a little later (getting better value and possibly even another pick or two)?

I say, especially in the 1st round, always draft for value with an eye towards need, but never reach JUST to fill a need and bypass great talent.

That's how you end up with Levi Brown over Adrian Peterson, Patrick Willis, or Derrelle Revis. The 2007 draft is a lesson for all !!!
Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
Originally posted by 9erred:
Jaguars Ebon Britton, 2nd round pick played well at RT. You can find RT's in round twol.

If the Niners got Spiller and Graham in round 1, they could package their 2nd and third rounder to move up for Sam Baker OT for RT.

Sam Baker? Who is that? You mean the OT for the Falcons?

Sam Young Notre Dame perhaps?

http://www.draftcountdown.com/ScoutingReports/OT/Sam-Young.php
[ Edited by GorefullBore on Mar 13, 2010 at 4:04 PM ]
After McCloughan continually preaching the mantra of BPA I'd be hard=pressed to believe the 49er draft board would have the 2nd tier tackles ranked above 17.

Although they could draft for need and tell the world they got a steal. In which case I won't even buy my copy of Lindy's draft magazine next year.
check out this mock that has us getting Bulaga

Spiller and Mathews going in the top 10 is something mocks here haven't done, but it's possible
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Everyone has seen the article with the worst OL. stats.The question I pose is the talent level that bad,or was change of philosophy from run to spread offense at mid season partially responsible?With less injures, and subsequent shuffling of positions would the OL looked better?The change of QB, and installing the shotgun, with 0 reps with starting offense, 0 reps with WR,requiring blocks to be held longer,.Can any of this be taken in to consideration as a circumstance that won't be repeated next yr?