Originally posted by Schulzy: The problem I have with the Spiller pick is that it's a luxury pick. I don't think the 49ers are in the position right now to be taking luxury picks in the 1st round. They are improving talent-wise, but the team still has holes to fill. The biggest holes are OT, OG, S, and CB.
With Gore in the backfield and a 3rd round pick invested in a running back last year in Coffee, it's not a necessity that we take Spiller.
Now, I would not be upset at all with the Spiller pick because he's a speed guy with the ability to return. I just think that building up the OL is something that has not been addressed and needs to be.
Offensive tackle and Iupati is still my ideal first round scenario.
Agreed. Don't waste a high pick on Spiller. I think Jahvid Best is better than Spiller. I would rather get a late 1st or early second for Best. Or just get a WR/PR/KR in rd 3-5.
By what standard is Jahvid Best better than CJ Spiller?
Originally posted by solidg2000: Iupati is overrated
He might be on this board. He's a Guard at Idaho. If he isn't good enough to play LT at Idaho what makes people think he can play it in the pros?...
These guys on the WZ honestly...LOL. "He can play all 5 positions." If he can do that why didn't he at least play Tackle at Idaho? You put your best and most atletic guys at Tackle. Everybody knows that.
He would be massively overdrafted at #13 & 16/17. He's more of a #28 - #45 value guy. I would pick him there but certainly not in the top 17.
He will not make it past Pittsburgh at 18, need meets BPA there and he fits their system. That is his floor. If you want one of the best interior linemen to come out in years you take him before that pick.
I don't know that he is that good. He seems more like a straight ahead maller when I've seen him. A bigger David Baas. But I will keep an open mind about how well he works out and tests out. If he is quick and fast and athletic for his size in all the combine stuff perhaps that will prove out his superior athleticism.
In that case I would be ok with OT (1A) and OG (1B) - Iupati. It's not like we don't need that.
However we need a Safety, CB, Speed RB & KR / PR and an additional WR too. So with 2 1st round picks I would probably just let the draft fall and don't panic. If we get the best available OT and S it's not like that is bad. Or if we get the best OT and CB it's not like that is bad. If we get the best available OT + C.J. Spiller that is far from bad for this team as well.
I think the best thing Scot M. can do is don't panic and just let it come to you. We still have holes and there is more than one. Don't trade up and waste all your picks for one guy you fall in love with. One guy can bust or get hurt anyway. If we stay put IMO we have 2 shots to shore up 2 holes. That will be good.
Agree with this during the draft for sure, we will be in a good position no matter how it falls.
Originally posted by Schulzy: The problem I have with the Spiller pick is that it's a luxury pick. I don't think the 49ers are in the position right now to be taking luxury picks in the 1st round. They are improving talent-wise, but the team still has holes to fill. The biggest holes are OT, OG, S, and CB.
With Gore in the backfield and a 3rd round pick invested in a running back last year in Coffee, it's not a necessity that we take Spiller.
Now, I would not be upset at all with the Spiller pick because he's a speed guy with the ability to return. I just think that building up the OL is something that has not been addressed and needs to be.
Offensive tackle and Iupati is still my ideal first round scenario.
Agreed. Don't waste a high pick on Spiller. I think Jahvid Best is better than Spiller. I would rather get a late 1st or early second for Best. Or just get a WR/PR/KR in rd 3-5.
By what standard is Jahvid Best better than CJ Spiller?
Originally posted by Schulzy: The problem I have with the Spiller pick is that it's a luxury pick. I don't think the 49ers are in the position right now to be taking luxury picks in the 1st round. They are improving talent-wise, but the team still has holes to fill. The biggest holes are OT, OG, S, and CB.
With Gore in the backfield and a 3rd round pick invested in a running back last year in Coffee, it's not a necessity that we take Spiller.
Now, I would not be upset at all with the Spiller pick because he's a speed guy with the ability to return. I just think that building up the OL is something that has not been addressed and needs to be.
Offensive tackle and Iupati is still my ideal first round scenario.
Agreed. Don't waste a high pick on Spiller. I think Jahvid Best is better than Spiller. I would rather get a late 1st or early second for Best. Or just get a WR/PR/KR in rd 3-5.
By what standard is Jahvid Best better than CJ Spiller?
Because he plays in Northern CA?
Best may have world class speed, but he doesn't have the elusiveness/shiftiness that Spiller has. Speed only matters once you're in open space, but elusiveness WILL GIVE YOU the open space that you want in order to use your speed.
Originally posted by Schulzy: The problem I have with the Spiller pick is that it's a luxury pick. I don't think the 49ers are in the position right now to be taking luxury picks in the 1st round. They are improving talent-wise, but the team still has holes to fill. The biggest holes are OT, OG, S, and CB.
With Gore in the backfield and a 3rd round pick invested in a running back last year in Coffee, it's not a necessity that we take Spiller.
Now, I would not be upset at all with the Spiller pick because he's a speed guy with the ability to return. I just think that building up the OL is something that has not been addressed and needs to be.
Offensive tackle and Iupati is still my ideal first round scenario.
Agreed. Don't waste a high pick on Spiller. I think Jahvid Best is better than Spiller. I would rather get a late 1st or early second for Best. Or just get a WR/PR/KR in rd 3-5.
By what standard is Jahvid Best better than CJ Spiller?
Because he plays in Northern CA?
Best may have world class speed, but he doesn't have the elusiveness/shiftiness that Spiller has. Speed only matters once you're in open space, but elusiveness WILL GIVE YOU the open space that you want in order to use your speed.
Spiller > Best
Well, maybe I should have said J. Best is a better value (based on draft projections)
Spiller Career YPC: 5.9 (his last 3 years averaged under 5.5 YPC)
J. Best Career YPC: 7.3
5.5 YPC isn’t that great; isn’t worth the #16/17 pick while we already have a pro bowl running back plus a high 3rd rd RB. Also Spiller is too small to be a full-time back, and he’s not that elusive (same size as Best, but not as elusive as Best). Glen Coffee averaged 5.9 YPC last year in the tougher SEC.
When I first saw Spiller run, I said to myself, “Hey, I’ve seen that before! Who does he run like?” I watched a few highlight reels and it was obvious: Spiller is the second coming of Billy Sims. The same acceleration from a standing start. The same stop step then accelerate away from the defender(s) to the end zone. The stop again, this time with a jump step to the left or right and off into the open field. The shake and bake and go (usually a bad idea in the NFL) at a speed that leaves the defender clutching air. The cutbacks in traffic that leave him all alone. Following his blocking to the outside into a hole that wasn’t there a fraction of a second ago. Spinning out of a tackle at full speed. And more. Much more.
Should the Niners draft Spiller?
Should they have drafted Emmit Smith? Or Gale Sayers? Or Walter Payton? Jim Brown?
Dickerson?
Billy Sims?
I don’t think he will be there for our first pick. There are a lot of old guys on NFL teams who remember Billy Sims. But maybe…
Originally posted by Schulzy: The problem I have with the Spiller pick is that it's a luxury pick. I don't think the 49ers are in the position right now to be taking luxury picks in the 1st round. They are improving talent-wise, but the team still has holes to fill. The biggest holes are OT, OG, S, and CB.
With Gore in the backfield and a 3rd round pick invested in a running back last year in Coffee, it's not a necessity that we take Spiller.
Now, I would not be upset at all with the Spiller pick because he's a speed guy with the ability to return. I just think that building up the OL is something that has not been addressed and needs to be.
Offensive tackle and Iupati is still my ideal first round scenario.
Agreed. Don't waste a high pick on Spiller. I think Jahvid Best is better than Spiller. I would rather get a late 1st or early second for Best. Or just get a WR/PR/KR in rd 3-5.
By what standard is Jahvid Best better than CJ Spiller?
Because he plays in Northern CA?
Best may have world class speed, but he doesn't have the elusiveness/shiftiness that Spiller has. Speed only matters once you're in open space, but elusiveness WILL GIVE YOU the open space that you want in order to use your speed.
Spiller > Best
Well, maybe I should have said J. Best is a better value (based on draft projections)
Spiller Career YPC: 5.9 (his last 3 years averaged under 5.5 YPC)
J. Best Career YPC: 7.3
5.5 YPC isn’t that great; isn’t worth the #16/17 pick while we already have a pro bowl running back plus a high 3rd rd RB. Also Spiller is too small to be a full-time back, and he’s not that elusive (same size as Best, but not as elusive as Best). Glen Coffee averaged 5.9 YPC last year in the tougher SEC.
Best's 7.3 yards per carry career is awesome
Best is not durable. He spends too much time missing games. And look at the 2009 total yards. Spiller has more.
Originally posted by Schulzy: The problem I have with the Spiller pick is that it's a luxury pick. I don't think the 49ers are in the position right now to be taking luxury picks in the 1st round. They are improving talent-wise, but the team still has holes to fill. The biggest holes are OT, OG, S, and CB.
With Gore in the backfield and a 3rd round pick invested in a running back last year in Coffee, it's not a necessity that we take Spiller.
Now, I would not be upset at all with the Spiller pick because he's a speed guy with the ability to return. I just think that building up the OL is something that has not been addressed and needs to be.
Offensive tackle and Iupati is still my ideal first round scenario.
Agreed. Don't waste a high pick on Spiller. I think Jahvid Best is better than Spiller. I would rather get a late 1st or early second for Best. Or just get a WR/PR/KR in rd 3-5.
By what standard is Jahvid Best better than CJ Spiller?
Because he plays in Northern CA?
Best may have world class speed, but he doesn't have the elusiveness/shiftiness that Spiller has. Speed only matters once you're in open space, but elusiveness WILL GIVE YOU the open space that you want in order to use your speed.
Spiller > Best
Well, maybe I should have said J. Best is a better value (based on draft projections)
Spiller Career YPC: 5.9 (his last 3 years averaged under 5.5 YPC)
J. Best Career YPC: 7.3
5.5 YPC isn’t that great; isn’t worth the #16/17 pick while we already have a pro bowl running back plus a high 3rd rd RB. Also Spiller is too small to be a full-time back, and he’s not that elusive (same size as Best, but not as elusive as Best). Glen Coffee averaged 5.9 YPC last year in the tougher SEC.
Best's 7.3 yards per carry career is awesome
Best is not durable. He spends too much time missing games. And look at the 2009 total yards. Spiller has more.
Spiller also is more versatile than Best: RB, slot receiver, kickoff returns, punt returns and does them all well. We are drafting Spiller not as an every down back (which we already have with Gore) but as an extra dimension to the offense, ala Reggie Bush/Pery Harvin.
YPC is misleading sometimes because a RB can have a terrific oline, or perhaps runs a spread formation in college and therefore defenses do not have an extra tackling LB in the box and has a smaller CB instead.
Jan 22, 2010 at 11:01 PM
#70
smileyman
Info N/A
Originally posted by DarthNiner:
Spiller also is more versatile than Best: RB, slot receiver, kickoff returns, punt returns and does them all well. We are drafting Spiller not as an every down back (which we already have with Gore) but as an extra dimension to the offense, ala Reggie Bush/Pery Harvin.
YPC is misleading sometimes because a RB can have a terrific oline, or perhaps runs a spread formation in college and therefore defenses do not have an extra tackling LB in the box and has a smaller CB instead.
Spiller's longest run in 2009 was 66 yards. Best's longest run was 93. That means Spiller was a much more consistent back in getting the yardage and that's much more important to a team's success.
Originally posted by endz0ne: When I first saw Spiller run, I said to myself, “Hey, I’ve seen that before! Who does he run like?” I watched a few highlight reels and it was obvious: Spiller is the second coming of Billy Sims. The same acceleration from a standing start. The same stop step then accelerate away from the defender(s) to the end zone. The stop again, this time with a jump step to the left or right and off into the open field. The shake and bake and go (usually a bad idea in the NFL) at a speed that leaves the defender clutching air. The cutbacks in traffic that leave him all alone. Following his blocking to the outside into a hole that wasn’t there a fraction of a second ago. Spinning out of a tackle at full speed. And more. Much more.
Should the Niners draft Spiller?
Should they have drafted Emmit Smith? Or Gale Sayers? Or Walter Payton? Jim Brown? Dickerson? Billy Sims?
I don’t think he will be there for our first pick. There are a lot of old guys on NFL teams who remember Billy Sims. But maybe…
Marcus Allen? Orenthal James?
Billy Sims?
CJ Spiller isn’t nearly as good as Billy Sims. Plus he's much smaller than Sims, who was a solid 6 ft 212 lbs.
Billy Sims:
Junior: 1,762 yards on 231 carries for an amazing average of 7.6 yards/carry, won Heisman Trophy
Senior: led the nation in rushing with 1,896 yards and had 22 touchdowns. Had four 200-yard games in a single season. Sims averaged over 7 YPC for career.
CJ Spiller is very good, I just think that Best is a better value in early 2nd than Spiller at #16
Spiller also is more versatile than Best: RB, slot receiver, kickoff returns, punt returns and does them all well. We are drafting Spiller not as an every down back (which we already have with Gore) but as an extra dimension to the offense, ala Reggie Bush/Pery Harvin.
YPC is misleading sometimes because a RB can have a terrific oline, or perhaps runs a spread formation in college and therefore defenses do not have an extra tackling LB in the box and has a smaller CB instead.
Spiller's longest run in 2009 was 66 yards. Best's longest run was 93. That means Spiller was a much more consistent back in getting the yardage and that's much more important to a team's success.
Originally posted by kronik: I'd replace Trent Williams with Iupati. Then maybe trade up to late 1st or top of 2nd to get Ducasse. I'm willing to give up next year's 1st, or maybe Gore and a 3rd. We end up with
Iupati, Spiller, Ducasse.
Two guards and a utility back? That would be very disappointing. You aren't going to have to be in the top of the 2nd to get Ducasse. NFL Draftscout rates him as a 3rd at number 82 overall and he's number 71 on Draft Tek's big board. You don't happen to be a UMass grad do you?
Originally posted by mayo63: I was surprise to hear that Wright didn't see Spiller as an every down player. I thought for sure he could be the future starting Rb for us.
People see him that way bc of his small frame. They also saw Chris Johnson and MJD the same way. To me its kinda dumb bc there just aren't too many "everydown" backs anymore in the league. They all split carriers now.
To me its going to be this, how far up is Spiller on our board? McC will pick BPA with one of our picks, If Spiller is there and he's on our board then I think we will get him. After looking at the teams ahead of us, I don't see too many that would take him. Seattle could. Wash and KC could but that would be a little high and then there is Cleveland who has Jerome Harrison but nobody else. Cleveland also has as many holes as we did a few years ago so I doubt Spiller goes there.
Me, I'm sold on the kid. He is our answer for KR and could be something special in the running game too. What if he turns out to be a Chris Johnson type back?
[ Edited by miked1978 on Jan 23, 2010 at 08:13:22 ]
