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Sanchez vs Stafford

Originally posted by RichmondPete:
As much as I do not trust 1 year sensations it definatly does not help that Sanchez is from USC. It seems like every year a QB from USC is getting drooled on by the media and then fails to deliver.

Not true.
I was wondering... Besides possibly the Jets and the Bears, maybe even Tennessee, is there any other team that would go for a quarterback in the first round? If neither Detroit or KC picks a quarterback, could Detroit possibly get one of them at their later draft choice in the first?

It may sound dumb, but I was just trying to figure who would splurge for a quarterback in the first this year..
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
As much as I do not trust 1 year sensations it definatly does not help that Sanchez is from USC. It seems like every year a QB from USC is getting drooled on by the media and then fails to deliver.

Not true.

Besides Palmer name one that has lived up to the billing
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
As much as I do not trust 1 year sensations it definatly does not help that Sanchez is from USC. It seems like every year a QB from USC is getting drooled on by the media and then fails to deliver.

Not true.

Besides Palmer name one that has lived up to the billing

I simply disagreed with the fact that EVERY YEAR there is a USC QB who underperforms in the NFL... There has only been one (Leinart) who fits that description - but then you have Matt Cassel who exceeded everyone's expectations.
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
As much as I do not trust 1 year sensations it definatly does not help that Sanchez is from USC. It seems like every year a QB from USC is getting drooled on by the media and then fails to deliver.

Not true.

Besides Palmer name one that has lived up to the billing

Name one with huge expectations that hasn't lived up to the billing other than Matt Leinart. You can play this game with any school. Like I mentioned earlier.. are you going to judge Colt McCoy next year because Vince Young has sucked? Are you going to list all of the QB busts in history and then eliminate those schools where they attended?

Your comment is juvenile and nonsensical. With your logic Peyton Manning should not have been drafted first because he followed the huge bust Heath Shuler who was drafted #3 in the draft, went to Tennessee, and was out of the league in a couple of years. In fact, in 2008 ESPN listed him as the 4th biggest draft bust of all time. I guess Indy is pretty lucky they didnt follow your flawed logic.
Originally posted by ninerfaninLA:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
As much as I do not trust 1 year sensations it definatly does not help that Sanchez is from USC. It seems like every year a QB from USC is getting drooled on by the media and then fails to deliver.

Not true.

Besides Palmer name one that has lived up to the billing

Name one with huge expectations that hasn't lived up to the billing other than Matt Leinart. You can play this game with any school. Like I mentioned earlier.. are you going to judge Colt McCoy next year because Vince Young has sucked? Are you going to list all of the QB busts in history and then eliminate those schools where they attended?

Your comment is juvenile and nonsensical. With your logic Peyton Manning should not have been drafted first because he followed the huge bust Heath Shuler who was drafted #3 in the draft, went to Tennessee, and was out of the league in a couple of years. In fact, in 2008 ESPN listed him as the 4th biggest draft bust of all time. I guess Indy is pretty lucky they didnt follow your flawed logic.


Lol god not you again. Listen LAniner fan I am Bay Area born and raised and we HATE USC. Go root for the chargers in your Matt Cassel hat

[ Edited by RichmondPete on Feb 23, 2009 at 00:15:13 ]
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by ninerfaninLA:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
As much as I do not trust 1 year sensations it definatly does not help that Sanchez is from USC. It seems like every year a QB from USC is getting drooled on by the media and then fails to deliver.

Not true.

Besides Palmer name one that has lived up to the billing

Name one with huge expectations that hasn't lived up to the billing other than Matt Leinart. You can play this game with any school. Like I mentioned earlier.. are you going to judge Colt McCoy next year because Vince Young has sucked? Are you going to list all of the QB busts in history and then eliminate those schools where they attended?

Your comment is juvenile and nonsensical. With your logic Peyton Manning should not have been drafted first because he followed the huge bust Heath Shuler who was drafted #3 in the draft, went to Tennessee, and was out of the league in a couple of years. In fact, in 2008 ESPN listed him as the 4th biggest draft bust of all time. I guess Indy is pretty lucky they didnt follow your flawed logic.


Lol god not you again. Listen LAniner fan I am Bay Area born and raised and we HATE USC. Go root for the chargers in your Matt Cassel hat

Who's we??? Im Bay Area born and I went to USC... FIGT ON b***hES!!!
Originally posted by boomer49er:
Originally posted by adrenaline:
Originally posted by Icelandic49er:
I have serious questions about Stafford decision making though as he does not hesitate to throw the ball into coverage. But he´s got the arm but that isnt everything and to be honest im not that impressed with Stafford overall.

Would be nice to know how MadDog and Boomer rate these two players!

view their top draft boards

Stafford has the better arm, it's really strong. Sanchez has a nice arm too, but it's not rare. Stafford is a better athlete, but Sanchez isn't far behind. Stafford is a lot bigger and does a great job breaking out of sacks (a lot like Big Ben), I haven't seen that from Sanchez. Stafford has better mechanics and a much faster release. Sanchez gets sloppy and has what I consider a slow release. Stafford is great at reading the field and getting the ball out, and with his great release he drops backa dn the ball is out on time. He also doesn't need to see an open receiver to have the confidence to let it go knowing the receiver will come open before it gets there, which is a must in the NFL. Stafford has accuracy issues, especially on the long ball which he tends to overthrow, which is still better than the underthrows I saw on the Sanchez film.

So basically you have a big athletic QB in Stafford who reads defenses well and has a great release and elite arm strength but still has issues with his accuracy Vs. a guy in Sanchez who still has work to do in terms of mechanics and the mental aspect of the game.

To go along with this, Stafford has far more game experience than Sanchez.

I think Stafford is ready to come to the NFL and win games now, and I don't think he's going to get his spirit or confidence broken with a rough start for a bad team, he's pretty confident in his abilities.

Sanchez has never really experienced a rough time in term of performance and when that happens in the NFL I'm not sure what might happen, coule go any direction.

When you compare these guys to Matt Ryan however, it's not very close. The only question I had on Ryan was his football IQ because of some dumb choices I had seen him make in terms of clock managment and field general stuff, but he either fixed those, or I overstated them. Ryan was really an ideal prospect.

To all the sanchez dissenters - get ready to eat your words... According the Rex Ryan, he's already earned the starting job for the next preseason game, and I personally dont see him relinquishing it.
everybody was trippin' balls over how good matt leinart looked early in preseason for the Cards, look how that turned out...
Originally posted by WestCoast:
everybody was trippin' balls over how good matt leinart looked early in preseason for the Cards, look how that turned out...

Leinart looked awful during preseason... Just wait.
Both could be good.

But I'm telling you right now, Stafford is almost guaranteed to be the one who throws more interceptions. He forces throws far more often.
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by WestCoast:
everybody was trippin' balls over how good matt leinart looked early in preseason for the Cards, look how that turned out...

Leinart looked awful during preseason... Just wait.

I'm talking about his rookie year
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Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
As much as I do not trust 1 year sensations it definatly does not help that Sanchez is from USC. It seems like every year a QB from USC is getting drooled on by the media and then fails to deliver.

Not true.

Besides Palmer name one that has lived up to the billing

Name one with huge expectations that hasn't lived up to the billing other than Matt Leinart. You can play this game with any school. Like I mentioned earlier.. are you going to judge Colt McCoy next year because Vince Young has sucked? Are you going to list all of the QB busts in history and then eliminate those schools where they attended?

Your comment is juvenile and nonsensical. With your logic Peyton Manning should not have been drafted first because he followed the huge bust Heath Shuler who was drafted #3 in the draft, went to Tennessee, and was out of the league in a couple of years. In fact, in 2008 ESPN listed him as the 4th biggest draft bust of all time. I guess Indy is pretty lucky they didnt follow your flawed logic.

I think what the RichmondPete is referring too is, several high profile USC players have failed to live up to their expectations at the the next level recently. Leinart was just one of them. Mike Williams and Jarret are well know busts. Reggie Bush (though I don't consider him a bust by any standard) has failed to live up to his billing as well. Winston Justice is another such player who was supposed to get drafted in top 10, then fell to second round and is a bust today. Many USC players have fallen in the draft itself because of poor preparations for combine.

There is a growing sentiment in the league, that several players coming out of USC are not as focused on football as they should be. I remember hearing this on ESPN a while back, especially on the offensive side of the ball.

If there is one example of failure, then you can brush it aside, but when several high profile players from one program turn out to be busts year after year - NFL takes notice of that. Florida WRs had such notoriety, QBs coached by Tedford were looked at the same way. With Aaron Rodgers' success that may change quickly and it will with couple of superstars coming out of USC.
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
As much as I do not trust 1 year sensations it definatly does not help that Sanchez is from USC. It seems like every year a QB from USC is getting drooled on by the media and then fails to deliver.

Not true.

Besides Palmer name one that has lived up to the billing

Name one with huge expectations that hasn't lived up to the billing other than Matt Leinart. You can play this game with any school. Like I mentioned earlier.. are you going to judge Colt McCoy next year because Vince Young has sucked? Are you going to list all of the QB busts in history and then eliminate those schools where they attended?

Your comment is juvenile and nonsensical. With your logic Peyton Manning should not have been drafted first because he followed the huge bust Heath Shuler who was drafted #3 in the draft, went to Tennessee, and was out of the league in a couple of years. In fact, in 2008 ESPN listed him as the 4th biggest draft bust of all time. I guess Indy is pretty lucky they didnt follow your flawed logic.

I think what the RichmondPete is referring too is, several high profile USC players have failed to live up to their expectations at the the next level recently. Leinart was just one of them. Mike Williams and Jarret are well know busts. Reggie Bush (though I don't consider him a bust by any standard) has failed to live up to his billing as well. Winston Justice is another such player who was supposed to get drafted in top 10, then fell to second round and is a bust today. Many USC players have fallen in the draft itself because of poor preparations for combine.

There is a growing sentiment in the league, that several players coming out of USC are not as focused on football as they should be. I remember hearing this on ESPN a while back, especially on the offensive side of the ball.

If there is one example of failure, then you can brush it aside, but when several high profile players from one program turn out to be busts year after year - NFL takes notice of that. Florida WRs had such notoriety, QBs coached by Tedford were looked at the same way. With Aaron Rodgers' success that may change quickly and it will with couple of superstars coming out of USC.

I completely agree with you, but with each of those players, there were glaring weaknesses in each of the players game: Leinart - arm strength, Jarrett & Williams - quickness in and out of breaks, Booty - Pocket Presence, Justice - Extreme Character and Work Ethic issues.

I am probably the biggest USC supporter on the zone (attended 2002-2006), but I am certainly not a blind supporter of every prospect that enters the draft... For example, I openly objected to drafting both Leinart and Dwayne Jarrett when there was lots of support to go after both, because I felt their respective skills wouldn't translate well to the NFL... Next year, there are lots of people hoping we go after Taylor Mays where as I certainly would not spend a 1st rounder on him and would be hesitant to 2nd rounder.

To this day, the 4 players that I have showed the most support for have been Carson Palmer (pro-bowler), Sedrick Ellis (will-be a pro-bowler), Reggie Bush (under achieved), and Mark Sanchez (we will see).

Throughout this offseason, I debated against several webzoners about the prospect of selecting Sanchez, something I feel the niners would have done had he been available at #10 instead of Crabtree... Dissenters claimed that he didnt have enough experience, had a elongated delivery, and was overly inaccurate.

I am confident that he will prove all of the naysayers wrong and wouldn't be surprised if he put up numbers similar to Matt Ryan this year... I realize those are very lofty expectations, but I feel he is very capable of achieving that level of play.
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Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
As much as I do not trust 1 year sensations it definatly does not help that Sanchez is from USC. It seems like every year a QB from USC is getting drooled on by the media and then fails to deliver.

Not true.

Besides Palmer name one that has lived up to the billing

Name one with huge expectations that hasn't lived up to the billing other than Matt Leinart. You can play this game with any school. Like I mentioned earlier.. are you going to judge Colt McCoy next year because Vince Young has sucked? Are you going to list all of the QB busts in history and then eliminate those schools where they attended?

Your comment is juvenile and nonsensical. With your logic Peyton Manning should not have been drafted first because he followed the huge bust Heath Shuler who was drafted #3 in the draft, went to Tennessee, and was out of the league in a couple of years. In fact, in 2008 ESPN listed him as the 4th biggest draft bust of all time. I guess Indy is pretty lucky they didnt follow your flawed logic.

I think what the RichmondPete is referring too is, several high profile USC players have failed to live up to their expectations at the the next level recently. Leinart was just one of them. Mike Williams and Jarret are well know busts. Reggie Bush (though I don't consider him a bust by any standard) has failed to live up to his billing as well. Winston Justice is another such player who was supposed to get drafted in top 10, then fell to second round and is a bust today. Many USC players have fallen in the draft itself because of poor preparations for combine.

There is a growing sentiment in the league, that several players coming out of USC are not as focused on football as they should be. I remember hearing this on ESPN a while back, especially on the offensive side of the ball.

If there is one example of failure, then you can brush it aside, but when several high profile players from one program turn out to be busts year after year - NFL takes notice of that. Florida WRs had such notoriety, QBs coached by Tedford were looked at the same way. With Aaron Rodgers' success that may change quickly and it will with couple of superstars coming out of USC.

I completely agree with you, but with each of those players, there were glaring weaknesses in each of the players game: Leinart - arm strength, Jarrett & Williams - quickness in and out of breaks, Booty - Pocket Presence, Justice - Extreme Character and Work Ethic issues.

I am probably the biggest USC supporter on the zone (attended 2002-2006), but I am certainly not a blind supporter of every prospect that enters the draft... For example, I openly objected to drafting both Leinart and Dwayne Jarrett when there was lots of support to go after both, because I felt their respective skills wouldn't translate well to the NFL... Next year, there are lots of people hoping we go after Taylor Mays where as I certainly would not spend a 1st rounder on him and would be hesitant to 2nd rounder.

To this day, the 4 players that I have showed the most support for have been Carson Palmer (pro-bowler), Sedrick Ellis (will-be a pro-bowler), Reggie Bush (under achieved), and Mark Sanchez (we will see).

Throughout this offseason, I debated against several webzoners about the prospect of selecting Sanchez, something I feel the niners would have done had he been available at #10 instead of Crabtree... Dissenters claimed that he didnt have enough experience, had a elongated delivery, and was overly inaccurate.

I am confident that he will prove all of the naysayers wrong and wouldn't be surprised if he put up numbers similar to Matt Ryan this year... I realize those are very lofty expectations, but I feel he is very capable of achieving that level of play.

I have had a discussion with you in the past and I think you are one of least biased alumni not just from USC but any college. I went to Cal ('03-'06) and I find it amusing when other Cal fans want Niners to draft players that don't even fit their defensive schemes. I love Cal football, but Niners are my first love. Their interest is most important to me when it comes to football. I too really liked Palmer and Bush coming out of college and wanted Niners to draft them somehow.

SC is the finest program in the country and it's only a matter of time they produce new pro-bowl players in NFL again. I think their defense has been consistently good at this, but the offensive side has been sub-par recently. Sanchez in a perfect situation to succeed, good OL and good ground game. I think he will do fine. If Bush stays healthy, I think he will put some solid numbers. I like Ellis and Rivers a lot.

I am not a fan of Mays, but mostly because I think he is strictly a SS and we don't need one. We need a FS unless of course Goldson stays healthy for 16 games AND puts up pro-bowl type numbers.

Either is highly unlikely...unfortunately.