Houston Astros stole signs throughout their 2017 championship season.

Originally posted by Niners99:
Im telling you why baseball isn't vacating the title. Ive said this many times. They know that decades from now, this entire situation, which makes the game look horrible, will be FAR less remembered if they just leave the 2017 WS alone. If they vacate the title, it becomes a glaring reminder for all of history. Baseball isn't going to put that kind of scar on itself just to punish the Astros.

You also have to remain consistent. The 2004 Red Sox had Manny and Ortiz. If the Astros are forced to vacate for cheating, why shouldn't the Red Sox be forced to vacate 2004 for having cheaters? The 1989 A's had McGwire and Canseco. Vacated? If the Giants had won in 2002, should they have vacated the title because of Bonds? Or is it ok because Glaus was using?

Im all for punishing the Astros. Ban any of them who were actively participating in this for life for all I care. I just fundamentally disagree with vacating titles. You cant go back and change history no matter how bad you wish you could. Its a slippery slope.

Yea this is the entire point that seems to being eluding you. Every team in 02 and 04 had MANY, if not half including pitching and position guys using or like you say 'cheating'. Astros as far as we know and based off of player wide reaction - including a guy that thought it was so bad he had to whistleblow the entire situation on his prior team (when has that happened before?) - were the only ones practicing such an aggressive cheating scheme. How do you not see the difference between the two? College football took away USC's title for something that reggie bush that wasn't even on the field...no one is like OMG WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT 2004 NATIONAL CHAMP WHERE DID IT GO ALL FUTURE CHAMPS ARE NULL THE SPORT IS NOW POINTLESS! There were guys guilty of things Reggie did all the time they didn't vacate all the titles retrospectively lol cmon if it's egregious enough you can do something to set an example, SMU got the death penalty and their football program still haven't recovered and EVERYONE was paying players blatantly.

And you couldn't be more wrong about how history reflects on this. No one will care in 20 years that there wasn't a winner in 2017 just like SC and 04. EVERYONE will be talking about the biggest cheating scandal in the history of the sport went down during the time it had the worst commissioner and not a single player or title was affected. In 20 years you think people will look back and say MLB did the right thing to not keep the integrity of its game? Give me a break.

Ya im done explaing it to him, he obviously doesnt get it.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Ya im done explaing it to him, he obviously doesnt get it.

Ya alright im done too that was it lol

Lebron's take:

Originally posted by DynastyChile:

Yea this is the entire point that seems to being eluding you. Every team in 02 and 04 had MANY, if not half including pitching and position guys using or like you say 'cheating'. Astros as far as we know and based off of player wide reaction - including a guy that thought it was so bad he had to whistleblow the entire situation on his prior team (when has that happened before?) - were the only ones practicing such an aggressive cheating scheme. How do you not see the difference between the two? College football took away USC's title for something that reggie bush that wasn't even on the field...no one is like OMG WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT 2004 NATIONAL CHAMP WHERE DID IT GO ALL FUTURE CHAMPS ARE NULL THE SPORT IS NOW POINTLESS! There were guys guilty of things Reggie did all the time they didn't vacate all the titles retrospectively lol cmon if it's egregious enough you can do something to set an example.

And you couldn't be more wrong about how history reflects on this. No one will care in 20 years that there wasn't a winner in 2017 just like SC and 04. EVERYONE will be talking about the biggest cheating scandal in the history of the sport went down during the time it had the worst commissioner and not a single player or title was affected. In 20 years you think people will look back and say MLB did the right thing to not keep the integrity of its game? Give me a break.

The biggest cheating scandal in the history of the sport was PED's, and its not close. Nearly half the sport was using drugs for 25 years. Baseball's record books are now littered with falsely inflated stats and records because of it.

Baseball's integrity has been damaged for most of its history. I will continue to bring up the fact that the 1919 White Sox THREW THE WS to get a payout from the mafia, the Reds got a free title, and baseball let that stand in the books. Imagine if that happened today. How can the 2017 WS be wiped off the books and not the 1919 WS? The integrity of the game is LONG gone.

You're just making blanket assumptions about every 02-04 team to dismiss that argument. You dont know if the 2004 Cards had any significant PED guys. The Red Sox best players were juicing. You dont think that had anything to do with why they won? What it if comes out that the 2018 Red Sox indeed cheated? Vacate two straight titles? What if it comes out the 2017 Dodgers were cheating too? Now is the Astros title back on? Under your PED era parameters, the Astros would keep their WS if LA had been doing the same, correct?

BTW, college football elects its playoff teams with a voting panel, and they allow teams to write their own schedule based around how much money it will make them. They're a corrupt joke, and the way they handle their business is neither here nor there in this situation.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Ya im done explaing it to him, he obviously doesnt get it.

I get it 100%, I just disagree with you. Not everyone will share your opinion, get over it.

Originally posted by Niners99:
The biggest cheating scandal in the history of the sport was PED's, and its not close. Nearly half the sport was using drugs for 25 years. Baseball's record books are now littered with falsely inflated stats and records because of it.

Baseball's integrity has been damaged for most of its history. I will continue to bring up the fact that the 1919 White Sox THREW THE WS to get a payout from the mafia, the Reds got a free title, and baseball let that stand in the books. Imagine if that happened today. How can the 2017 WS be wiped off the books and not the 1919 WS? The integrity of the game is LONG gone.

You're just making blanket assumptions about every 02-04 team to dismiss that argument. You dont know if the 2004 Cards had any significant PED guys. The Red Sox best players were juicing. You dont think that had anything to do with why they won? What it if comes out that the 2018 Red Sox indeed cheated? Vacate two straight titles? What if it comes out the 2017 Dodgers were cheating too? Now is the Astros title back on? Under your PED era parameters, the Astros would keep their WS if LA had been doing the same, correct?

BTW, college football elects its playoff teams with a voting panel, and they allow teams to write their own schedule based around how much money it will make them. They're a corrupt joke, and the way they handle their business is neither here nor there in this situation.

Well its been over 100 years and you are still talking about 1919 being terrible for baseballs integrity. Doesn't that prove my point? You think if they vacate 17 anyone in the year 2121 will be talking about it? If they vacated 1919, you and I would have nooo idea that or why it was vacated. You know what it would do? Make the players and fans during that period feel better about their sport which is exactly what would happen now.

And the dodgers weren't doing it, so what the f**k are you talking about? You're reallllllllllllly starting reach

Originally posted by Niners99:
Baseball's integrity has been damaged for most of its history. I will continue to bring up the fact that the 1919 White Sox THREW THE WS to get a payout from the mafia, the Reds got a free title, and baseball let that stand in the books. Imagine if that happened today. How can the 2017 WS be wiped off the books and not the 1919 WS? The integrity of the game is LONG gone.

Imagine thinking punishing a team that did NOTHING wrong is the same as punishing a team who cheated to win the World Series. Couldnt be me.

https://twitter.com/Starting9/status/1230513225248145410?s=20

Here 99 scope out what Mike Clevinger thinks. What do you think about his comments? Is he being ridiculous not being mad at the 1919 situation or calling out every player that was juicing? Can you link anything to opposing players from the 04 cards or anyone in MLB mad about Manny?

Originally posted by DynastyChile:
https://twitter.com/Starting9/status/1230513225248145410?s=20

Here 99 scope out what Mike Clevinger thinks. What do you think about his comments? Is he being ridiculous not being mad at the 1919 situation or calling out every player that was juicing? Can you link anything to opposing players from the 04 cards or anyone in MLB mad about Manny?

Every single player who has mentioned steroids has strongly believed that this cheating scandal is exponentially worse than using steroids. That should say it all.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by DynastyChile:
https://twitter.com/Starting9/status/1230513225248145410?s=20

Here 99 scope out what Mike Clevinger thinks. What do you think about his comments? Is he being ridiculous not being mad at the 1919 situation or calling out every player that was juicing? Can you link anything to opposing players from the 04 cards or anyone in MLB mad about Manny?

Every single player who has mentioned steroids has strongly believed that this cheating scandal is exponentially worse than using steroids. That should say it all.

Well yes, I know that. Trying to spell it out for 99 though. Not sure why

Originally posted by DynastyChile:

Well its been over 100 years and you are still talking about 1919 being terrible for baseballs integrity. Doesn't that prove my point? You think if they vacate 17 anyone in the year 2121 will be talking about it? If they vacated 1919, you and I would have nooo idea that or why it was vacated. You know what it would do? Make the players and fans during that period feel better about their sport which is exactly what would happen now.

You just proved MY point. They didn't vacate 1919, but everyone still remembers it as a bad thing. They didn't need to erase history for people to understand the gravity of it.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Well its been over 100 years and you are still talking about 1919 being terrible for baseballs integrity. Doesn't that prove my point? You think if they vacate 17 anyone in the year 2121 will be talking about it? If they vacated 1919, you and I would have nooo idea that or why it was vacated. You know what it would do? Make the players and fans during that period feel better about their sport which is exactly what would happen now.

You just proved MY point. They didn't vacate 1919, but everyone still remembers it as a bad thing. They didn't need to erase history for people to understand the gravity of it.

Got it. So everyone that cheats keeps what they won to make sure everyone remembers they cheated to win it. LMAO

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by DynastyChile:

https://twitter.com/Starting9/status/1230513225248145410?s=20

Here 99 scope out what Mike Clevinger thinks. What do you think about his comments? Is he being ridiculous not being mad at the 1919 situation or calling out every player that was juicing? Can you link anything to opposing players from the 04 cards or anyone in MLB mad about Manny?

Every single player who has mentioned steroids has strongly believed that this cheating scandal is exponentially worse than using steroids. That should say it all.

Obviously its worse in an isolated instance if you're putting a PED team against a team with buzzers. But half the sport cheating for 25 years is worse than the Astros cheating for 2 years.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by DynastyChile:
https://twitter.com/Starting9/status/1230513225248145410?s=20

Here 99 scope out what Mike Clevinger thinks. What do you think about his comments? Is he being ridiculous not being mad at the 1919 situation or calling out every player that was juicing? Can you link anything to opposing players from the 04 cards or anyone in MLB mad about Manny?

Every single player who has mentioned steroids has strongly believed that this cheating scandal is exponentially worse than using steroids. That should say it all.

Obviously its worse in an isolated instance if you're putting a PED team against a team with buzzers. But half the sport cheating for 25 years is worse than the Astros cheating for 2 years.

Lmao. WE KNOW