2016-2017 NBA FINALS: Cavs v. Warriors

Originally posted by Niners99:

The NBA today is a watered down league. So many irrelevant teams. To say there was no competition back then is ridiculous. Plenty of high quality teams that just got overshadowed by Jordan.

Plenty of would be champions. Denied Magic and Lakers a final chip. Denied Ewing and the Knicks coached by Riley that would've won multiple chips. Denied Reggie Miller and the Pacers coached by Bird that could've won multiple chips. Denied Shaq and Penny and the Magic prompting Shaqs exodus that could've won multiple chips. And then out West denied Drexler and the Trailblazers that could've won multiple, GP Kemp and the Sonics which were a 65 win team and a champion most years, Barkley KJ and the Suns who were great and finally Stockton. Malone Jerry Sloan and the Jazz who could've won multiple chips.

All those HOF coaches and players denied by the tenacity and greatness of the CHI Bulls. And then we saw up above that MJ might be one of the best players to grace the game. Smh. MJ is most players standard in this game. He is considered by most to be the best to play this game all things considered. There are arguments for others past and present to surpass him and I think LeBron is working towards that but right now I have MJ as if not the best he's tied for the top spot with whoever your favorite players are. He's earned it

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by ads_2006:

Originally posted by Niners99:
How can LeBron be the GOAT when he's about to lose in 5 of his 8 Finals appearances?

jordan had HOFers for teammates man and faced weak ass west

lebron aint got nobody

Jordan always had Pippen. He didn't go recruit him and his buddies to band together like LeBron.

Jordan had to get through a real Eastern conference to get to the Finals. LeBron's path to the Finals has been a bunch of cupcakes this last decade.

If you had seen Jordan play, youd know why this isn't even a debate.

The game is also officiated much different the flagrant foul wasn't introduced until 1990 and players could commit multiple ones a game until 1994 without ejection.
The flagrant two was not introduced until Jordan was long gone. A lot of teams would spend the 6 fouls of the deep bench players to knock Jordan around. He probably was the only player other than Wilt and Shaq to draw triple teams. Look up Jordan rules. In today's game all the superstars get the calls, in Jordan's day they got welts. I can remember them interviewing Jordan after a late 80's play-off game against Detroit, the guy had lumps and welts all over his head, The guy looked like he was being interviewed after a 15 round boxing match, not an NBA game.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Erik Spoelstra is one of the best coaches in the NBA.

LeBron runs the show wherever he goes. You cant suggest the GM isnt making the right moves, because LeBron tells him what to do. He literally orchestrated the Wiggins/Love trade. Hes had multiple coaches replaced. Hes in charge of his entire team, and he still cries when they lose, and points the finger at someone else.

LeBron is a great player but like most greats he has his character flaws as well. It won't stop me from enjoying his greatness though

Originally posted by BobS:

The game is also officiated much different the flagrant foul wasn't introduced until 1990 and players could commit multiple ones a game until 1994 without ejection.
The flagrant two was not introduced until Jordan was long gone. A lot of teams would spend the 6 fouls of the deep bench players to knock Jordan around. He probably was the only player other than Wilt and Shaq to draw triple teams. Look up Jordan rules. In today's game all the superstars get the calls, in Jordan's day they got welts. I can remember them interviewing Jordan after a late 80's play-off game against Detroit, the guy had lumps and welts all over his head, The guy looked like he was being interviewed after a 15 round boxing match, not an NBA game.

This was the Eastern Conference basketball I loved. You had to really want it and be willing to endure the price you had to pay to become champion

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by BobS:

The game is also officiated much different the flagrant foul wasn't introduced until 1990 and players could commit multiple ones a game until 1994 without ejection.
The flagrant two was not introduced until Jordan was long gone. A lot of teams would spend the 6 fouls of the deep bench players to knock Jordan around. He probably was the only player other than Wilt and Shaq to draw triple teams. Look up Jordan rules. In today's game all the superstars get the calls, in Jordan's day they got welts. I can remember them interviewing Jordan after a late 80's play-off game against Detroit, the guy had lumps and welts all over his head, The guy looked like he was being interviewed after a 15 round boxing match, not an NBA game.

This was the Eastern Conference basketball I loved. You had to really want it and be willing to endure the price you had to pay to become champion

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Jordan always had Pippen. He didn't go recruit him and his buddies to band together like LeBron.

Jordan had to get through a real Eastern conference to get to the Finals. LeBron's path to the Finals has been a bunch of cupcakes this last decade.

If you had seen Jordan play, youd know why this isn't even a debate.

Free Agency wasn't even close to being as big back then as it is now. MJ also played in a major market city with a GM willing to bring in vital pieces and a HC that is considered one of the best...the exact opposite was true for LeBron when he left for MIA. Then he came back to CLE and what buddies did he recruit? His GM saw what he was capable of doing with some help in MIA and got with the program like he should've done before but he didn't think he would leave. Nobody did that's why his owner was so damn butt hurt over how The Decision played out.

MJs team was so stacked they won 55 games without him in 94! Then went to a game 7 in the ECF!! None of that will/have happen with these teams LeBron has been on.

Erik Spoelstra is one of the best coaches in the NBA.

LeBron runs the show wherever he goes. You cant suggest the GM isnt making the right moves, because LeBron tells him what to do. He literally orchestrated the Wiggins/Love trade. Hes had multiple coaches replaced. Hes in charge of his entire team, and he still cries when they lose, and points the finger at someone else.

LeBron tells the GM what to do NOW. His first 7 years was not like that. His GM was more interested in aging players and expiring contracts than he was for building a team around his cash cow. Wiggins/Love trade was just that, a trade. Minnesota wasn't going anywhere with Love as the first option so they got a talent that was projected to be a superstar while CLE had no reason to hold on to Wiggins because he played the same position as LeBron and they needed a PF. That was smart and they were building to beat SA. GS however took over the West that year and Draymond creates a problem for Love. Who has he pointed the finger at when he loses?

Spoelstra is not one of the best coaches in the league lol he's not even top 3 in the East!

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
You just love to make these statements dont you. EVERY player/coach. LOL You dont think winning games gives a team confidence and builds momentum? You dont believe that winning Game 5 after Draymonds suspension gave the Cavs a feeling that they could really win the series? Did you ever play sports at all because I would think that if you did you would understand how winning breeds confidence which builds momentum for a team.

Confidence and/or momentum from winning a game is short lived at best. Momentum can be changed multiple times during a game...hell it can change with couple of plays.

You need confidence to win. Winning just validates what you're doing is right but doesn't guarantee or makes it more likely that you'll win next time.

I'm sorry I'm not in HOF of all 3 sports like you but hard work and preparation builds real long lasting confidence...and this is true in any profession.

Just 2 sports for me and close to HOF status.. I played enough in several sports beyond just baseball and basketball though to know how you can build confidence and momentum and how it can carry over. . Of course it doesnt guarantee a win. But it does give a team much more of a likelihood for success.

Bottom line is you dont want to admit that Draymond's suspension was the key turning point in the series and without that happening it is unlikely the Cavs come back to win. I get it.. you are the ultimate Lebron fanboy and would never think otherwise. But as for the momentum argument. you are so far off that I am done with this.

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:
Jordan always had Pippen. He didn't go recruit him and his buddies to band together like LeBron.

Jordan had to get through a real Eastern conference to get to the Finals. LeBron's path to the Finals has been a bunch of cupcakes this last decade.

If you had seen Jordan play, youd know why this isn't even a debate.

Free Agency wasn't even close to being as big back then as it is now. MJ also played in a major market city with a GM willing to bring in vital pieces and a HC that is considered one of the best...the exact opposite was true for LeBron when he left for MIA. Then he came back to CLE and what buddies did he recruit? His GM saw what he was capable of doing with some help in MIA and got with the program like he should've done before but he didn't think he would leave. Nobody did that's why his owner was so damn butt hurt over how The Decision played out.

MJs team was so stacked they won 55 games without him in 94! Then went to a game 7 in the ECF!! None of that will/have happen with these teams LeBron has been on.

You make some good points but I think most people who have watched them both play hundreds of games or more would agree that MJ was the greater talent and the GOAT. That doesnt take away from Lebron's greatness. Nothing wrong with being #2 or #3 all time.

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
The Cavs had nothing to do with the Dubs adding KD. Every team in the league, regardless of their record the previous season, wanted Kevin Durant. The Warriors were just smart enough and fortunate enough to be in a position to sign him.

I think it was damn close GS actually getting Durant. I think had GS won in five like most assumed had there been no suspension that GS keeps Barnes and tries for the three peat. Also KD may have not been receptive as to how he could leave OKC to join a defending champion as the key piece that could get them over some imaginary hump.

By GS losing this gave them ammunition to let Barnes go and join the chase for KD. Plus KD could then convince himself that GS needed him instead of going to SA

I dont know if KD would have wanted to come to the Dubs if that had happened but Joe Lacob is a very aggressive owner and I believe he still would have done whatever possible to make his team better and get Durant. I just dont think that losing to Cleveland was the reason they went hard after him. All teams that could went hard after him.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

You just love to make these statements dont you. EVERY player/coach. LOL You dont think winning games gives a team confidence and builds momentum? You dont believe that winning Game 5 after Draymonds suspension gave the Cavs a feeling that they could really win the series? Did you ever play sports at all because I would think that if you did you would understand how winning breeds confidence which builds momentum for a team.

Confidence and/or momentum from winning a game is short lived at best. Momentum can be changed multiple times during a game...hell it can change with couple of plays.

You need confidence to win. Winning just validates what you're doing is right but doesn't guarantee or makes it more likely that you'll win next time.

I'm sorry I'm not in HOF of all 3 sports like you but hard work and preparation builds real long lasting confidence...and this is true in any profession.

Just 2 sports for me and close to HOF status.. I played enough in several sports beyond just baseball and basketball though to know how you can build confidence and momentum and how it can carry over. . Of course it doesnt guarantee a win. But it does give a team much more of a likelihood for success.

Bottom line is you dont want to admit that Draymond's suspension was the key turning point in the series and without that happening it is unlikely the Cavs come back to win. I get it.. you are the ultimate Lebron fanboy and would never think otherwise. But as for the momentum argument. you are so far off that I am done with this.

lol right. Yes, please move on from the lame excuses.

Warriors won game 2 by about 30pts and then go on to lose game 3 by about 30 points and then won game 4.

So much for confidence and momentum...lol

Weakest argument I've have ever heard.

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Jordan always had Pippen. He didn't go recruit him and his buddies to band together like LeBron.

Jordan had to get through a real Eastern conference to get to the Finals. LeBron's path to the Finals has been a bunch of cupcakes this last decade.

If you had seen Jordan play, youd know why this isn't even a debate.

Free Agency wasn't even close to being as big back then as it is now. MJ also played in a major market city with a GM willing to bring in vital pieces and a HC that is considered one of the best...the exact opposite was true for LeBron when he left for MIA. Then he came back to CLE and what buddies did he recruit? His GM saw what he was capable of doing with some help in MIA and got with the program like he should've done before but he didn't think he would leave. Nobody did that's why his owner was so damn butt hurt over how The Decision played out.

MJs team was so stacked they won 55 games without him in 94! Then went to a game 7 in the ECF!! None of that will/have happen with these teams LeBron has been on.

The 1994 ecf was the Knicks and pacers

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
You just love to make these statements dont you. EVERY player/coach. LOL You dont think winning games gives a team confidence and builds momentum? You dont believe that winning Game 5 after Draymonds suspension gave the Cavs a feeling that they could really win the series? Did you ever play sports at all because I would think that if you did you would understand how winning breeds confidence which builds momentum for a team.

Confidence and/or momentum from winning a game is short lived at best. Momentum can be changed multiple times during a game...hell it can change with couple of plays.

You need confidence to win. Winning just validates what you're doing is right but doesn't guarantee or makes it more likely that you'll win next time.

I'm sorry I'm not in HOF of all 3 sports like you but hard work and preparation builds real long lasting confidence...and this is true in any profession.

Just 2 sports for me and close to HOF status.. I played enough in several sports beyond just baseball and basketball though to know how you can build confidence and momentum and how it can carry over. . Of course it doesnt guarantee a win. But it does give a team much more of a likelihood for success.

Bottom line is you dont want to admit that Draymond's suspension was the key turning point in the series and without that happening it is unlikely the Cavs come back to win. I get it.. you are the ultimate Lebron fanboy and would never think otherwise. But as for the momentum argument. you are so far off that I am done with this.

lol right. Yes, please move on from the lame excuses.

Like I said.. you wont admit that the suspension had anything to do with the series outcome. Now, that is lame. Like I also said, no excuses for Game 7. I give Cleveland all the credit in the world for that win and have never faulted the refs. But for anyone to actually not admit that the suspension was key is fricking stupid. But, no surprise coming from the #1 Lebron fanboy in the world.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

You just love to make these statements dont you. EVERY player/coach. LOL You dont think winning games gives a team confidence and builds momentum? You dont believe that winning Game 5 after Draymonds suspension gave the Cavs a feeling that they could really win the series? Did you ever play sports at all because I would think that if you did you would understand how winning breeds confidence which builds momentum for a team.

Confidence and/or momentum from winning a game is short lived at best. Momentum can be changed multiple times during a game...hell it can change with couple of plays.

You need confidence to win. Winning just validates what you're doing is right but doesn't guarantee or makes it more likely that you'll win next time.

I'm sorry I'm not in HOF of all 3 sports like you but hard work and preparation builds real long lasting confidence...and this is true in any profession.

Just 2 sports for me and close to HOF status.. I played enough in several sports beyond just baseball and basketball though to know how you can build confidence and momentum and how it can carry over. . Of course it doesnt guarantee a win. But it does give a team much more of a likelihood for success.

Bottom line is you dont want to admit that Draymond's suspension was the key turning point in the series and without that happening it is unlikely the Cavs come back to win. I get it.. you are the ultimate Lebron fanboy and would never think otherwise. But as for the momentum argument. you are so far off that I am done with this.

lol right. Yes, please move on from the lame excuses.

Like I said.. you wont admit that the suspension had anything to do with the series outcome. Now, that is lame. Like I also said, no excuses for Game 7. I give Cleveland all the credit in the world for that win and have never faulted the refs. But for anyone to actually not admit that the suspension was key is fricking stupid. But, no surprise coming from the #1 Lebron fanboy in the world.

Uhh so now you're basically agreeing with me. I said - it made difference in game 5 but not in game 6 and 7. Series outcome wasn't decided in game 5. Warriors still had the control of the series. They won game 6 in 2015 in Cleveland.

lol @ calling me a fanboy. That's all you can respond with. Sometimes I feel I'm talking to a post-millennial than a grown man.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
You just love to make these statements dont you. EVERY player/coach. LOL You dont think winning games gives a team confidence and builds momentum? You dont believe that winning Game 5 after Draymonds suspension gave the Cavs a feeling that they could really win the series? Did you ever play sports at all because I would think that if you did you would understand how winning breeds confidence which builds momentum for a team.

Confidence and/or momentum from winning a game is short lived at best. Momentum can be changed multiple times during a game...hell it can change with couple of plays.

You need confidence to win. Winning just validates what you're doing is right but doesn't guarantee or makes it more likely that you'll win next time.

I'm sorry I'm not in HOF of all 3 sports like you but hard work and preparation builds real long lasting confidence...and this is true in any profession.

Just 2 sports for me and close to HOF status.. I played enough in several sports beyond just baseball and basketball though to know how you can build confidence and momentum and how it can carry over. . Of course it doesnt guarantee a win. But it does give a team much more of a likelihood for success.

Bottom line is you dont want to admit that Draymond's suspension was the key turning point in the series and without that happening it is unlikely the Cavs come back to win. I get it.. you are the ultimate Lebron fanboy and would never think otherwise. But as for the momentum argument. you are so far off that I am done with this.

lol right. Yes, please move on from the lame excuses.

Like I said.. you wont admit that the suspension had anything to do with the series outcome. Now, that is lame. Like I also said, no excuses for Game 7. I give Cleveland all the credit in the world for that win and have never faulted the refs. But for anyone to actually not admit that the suspension was key is fricking stupid. But, no surprise coming from the #1 Lebron fanboy in the world.

Hahahahaha. Soooo funny. Still whining about a suspsension that absolutely cost the Warriors a chance to repeat. There was no doubt. They would have won easily no question at all. LMAO.