Junipero Serra High School (San Mateo) - the house that Brady built

Originally posted by btthepunk:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Garce:

Barry Bonds went to Serra

Crazy that the greatest baseball player and arguably football player went to the same HS.

You call yourself a 49ers fan?

I hate Brady but do ppl still question that Brady isn't the greatest QB of all time?

How the rings were won matters. I think Montana won his 4 more decisively and dominantly than Brady did. People weren't really comfortable saying Brady was better until he won his 5th ring, yet one of those 5 was literally handed over by the Seahawks. Factor in Adam Vinatieri, the Falcons idiotically not running clock out and guaranteeing the victory, Deflate-gate, Spy-gate, etc.

Im comfortable called Montana at a perfect 4-0 with 0 picks, and a clean record the GOAT. He didn't get the benefits of ref protection either.

You're not wrong but you also have to factor in the team around them. Joe had the biggest offensive innovator ever at HC, and assistant coaches who went on to be HC. His defenses are the most underrated possibly ever. He had the greatest player of all time for 2 of his super bowls. A RB who had 1000 yards rushing and receiving.

The Super Bowls that Brady won, he never had that kind of talent around him.

Id counter that by saying Montana didn't get to play for Walsh for 17+ years. Imagine an injury free Joe with 17+ seasons with Walsh.

And lets be honest with Jerry Rice. His entire career was spent playing for Joe Montana and Steve Young. His GOAT status was afforded by his mutually beneficial situation. Montana went 18-1 and blew out Marino in the SB before he had Rice.

To me the biggest factor is era. Joe Montana was bashed around like a crash test dummy, and the refs had zero issues with it. He had career shortening back and elbow problems that caused chronic issues, and needed countless surgeries. He was a pretty small guy for the abuse he took.

Between the scandals, the Vinatieri bailouts, and the Seahawks choke job, I just cant call Brady the superior player in the biggest moments. Brady lost thr Super Bowl, twice. He threw picks. Its just not the same. Ill take quality over quantity.

Originally posted by Niners99:
Id counter that by saying Montana didn't get to play for Walsh for 17+ years. Imagine an injury free Joe with 17+ seasons with Walsh.

And lets be honest with Jerry Rice. His entire career was spent playing for Joe Montana and Steve Young. His GOAT status was afforded by his mutually beneficial situation. Montana went 18-1 and blew out Marino in the SB before he had Rice.

To me the biggest factor is era. Joe Montana was bashed around like a crash test dummy, and the refs had zero issues with it. He had career shortening back and elbow problems that caused chronic issues, and needed countless surgeries. He was a pretty small guy for the abuse he took.

Between the scandals, the Vinatieri bailouts, and the Seahawks choke job, I just cant call Brady the superior player in the biggest moments. Brady lost thr Super Bowl, twice. He threw picks. Its just not the same. Ill take quality over quantity.

Joe is the GOAT, but gtfo with your crap on Jerry. He is the goat. His work ethic, precision route running, extremely healthy career early on. You ignant. Guy was triple covered and was an animal.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by btthepunk:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Garce:

Barry Bonds went to Serra

Crazy that the greatest baseball player and arguably football player went to the same HS.

You call yourself a 49ers fan?

I hate Brady but do ppl still question that Brady isn't the greatest QB of all time?

How the rings were won matters. I think Montana won his 4 more decisively and dominantly than Brady did. People weren't really comfortable saying Brady was better until he won his 5th ring, yet one of those 5 was literally handed over by the Seahawks. Factor in Adam Vinatieri, the Falcons idiotically not running clock out and guaranteeing the victory, Deflate-gate, Spy-gate, etc.

Im comfortable called Montana at a perfect 4-0 with 0 picks, and a clean record the GOAT. He didn't get the benefits of ref protection either.

You're not wrong but you also have to factor in the team around them. Joe had the biggest offensive innovator ever at HC, and assistant coaches who went on to be HC. His defenses are the most underrated possibly ever. He had the greatest player of all time for 2 of his super bowls. A RB who had 1000 yards rushing and receiving.

The Super Bowls that Brady won, he never had that kind of talent around him.

Id counter that by saying Montana didn't get to play for Walsh for 17+ years. Imagine an injury free Joe with 17+ seasons with Walsh.

And lets be honest with Jerry Rice. His entire career was spent playing for Joe Montana and Steve Young. His GOAT status was afforded by his mutually beneficial situation. Montana went 18-1 and blew out Marino in the SB before he had Rice.

To me the biggest factor is era. Joe Montana was bashed around like a crash test dummy, and the refs had zero issues with it. He had career shortening back and elbow problems that caused chronic issues, and needed countless surgeries. He was a pretty small guy for the abuse he took.

Between the scandals, the Vinatieri bailouts, and the Seahawks choke job, I just cant call Brady the superior player in the biggest moments. Brady lost thr Super Bowl, twice. He threw picks. Its just not the same. Ill take quality over quantity.

I can agree with all of this, but I was surprised you didn't mention the other HOF's Montana destroyed in the SB as well as the defenses (NYG with Taylor and co., Chicago Bears when they were considered the best, and so on) he faced just to get to the SB!

Also, Joe was never owned by a team (NYG) in the SB the way Brady was and the league wasn't designed for Joe to succeed ala the Brady rule (no contact below the knees) or the tuck rule.

With that said they are both great players and Brady's Highschool killed it this season!

Originally posted by sacniner:

Joe is the GOAT, but gtfo with your crap on Jerry. He is the goat. His work ethic, precision route running, extremely healthy career early on. You ignant. Guy was triple covered and was an animal.

Way to take what I said WAY out of context. Would he have been the GOAT if the Bengals had drafted him instead of Eddie Brown? No. He was great, but it was the perfect storm of being great AND only ever having elite QB's throwing to him.

Nobody is taking anything away from Rice. He was my favorite player growing up. But if you dont think he benefited from having 2 of the top 10 QB's of all time throwing him passes for 15 years, you're kidding yourself.

Originally posted by Garce:
Barry Bonds went to Serra

Crazy that the greatest baseball player and arguably football player went to the same HS.

and both have arguably the greatest asterisks in all of sports.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Way to take what I said WAY out of context. Would he have been the GOAT if the Bengals had drafted him instead of Eddie Brown? No. He was great, but it was the perfect storm of being great AND only ever having elite QB's throwing to him.

Nobody is taking anything away from Rice. He was my favorite player growing up. But if you dont think he benefited from having 2 of the top 10 QB's of all time throwing him passes for 15 years, you're kidding yourself.

Would Joe be the goat if the bengals drafted him? No Walsh? Innovative, new offense? HOF squad?

I think Jerry woulda been the GOAT still.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by sacniner:

Joe is the GOAT, but gtfo with your crap on Jerry. He is the goat. His work ethic, precision route running, extremely healthy career early on. You ignant. Guy was triple covered and was an animal.

Way to take what I said WAY out of context. Would he have been the GOAT if the Bengals had drafted him instead of Eddie Brown? No. He was great, but it was the perfect storm of being great AND only ever having elite QB's throwing to him.

Nobody is taking anything away from Rice. He was my favorite player growing up. But if you dont think he benefited from having 2 of the top 10 QB's of all time throwing him passes for 15 years, you're kidding yourself.

Rice was the single most self driven individual/athlete ever! Steve Young was horrible in Tampa and Jeff Garcia was great in Canada. If the Bengals has Rice they would have probably beaten us in both Super Bowls.

.

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by sacniner:

Joe is the GOAT, but gtfo with your crap on Jerry. He is the goat. His work ethic, precision route running, extremely healthy career early on. You ignant. Guy was triple covered and was an animal.

Way to take what I said WAY out of context. Would he have been the GOAT if the Bengals had drafted him instead of Eddie Brown? No. He was great, but it was the perfect storm of being great AND only ever having elite QB's throwing to him.

Nobody is taking anything away from Rice. He was my favorite player growing up. But if you dont think he benefited from having 2 of the top 10 QB's of all time throwing him passes for 15 years, you're kidding yourself.

Rice was the single most self driven individual/athlete ever! Steve Young was horrible in Tampa and Jeff Garcia was great in Canada. If the Bengals has Rice they would have probably beaten us in both Super Bowls.

Rice was a freshman in college in 1981, so it would've been hard for him to help Cincinnati in the 1st Super Bowl.

Rice was very blessed to have pro bowl or hall of fame level QB's his entire career. Montana to Young to Gannon to Hasselbeck. WR's are totally dependent on the QB to deliver the ball. You cant just assume that Rice carries whatever team that drafts him into being a dynasty. Like I said, it was the perfect storm.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by sacniner:

Joe is the GOAT, but gtfo with your crap on Jerry. He is the goat. His work ethic, precision route running, extremely healthy career early on. You ignant. Guy was triple covered and was an animal.

Way to take what I said WAY out of context. Would he have been the GOAT if the Bengals had drafted him instead of Eddie Brown? No. He was great, but it was the perfect storm of being great AND only ever having elite QB's throwing to him.

Nobody is taking anything away from Rice. He was my favorite player growing up. But if you dont think he benefited from having 2 of the top 10 QB's of all time throwing him passes for 15 years, you're kidding yourself.

Rice was the single most self driven individual/athlete ever! Steve Young was horrible in Tampa and Jeff Garcia was great in Canada. If the Bengals has Rice they would have probably beaten us in both Super Bowls.

Rice was a freshman in college in 1981, so it would've been hard for him to help Cincinnati in the 1st Super Bowl.

Rice was very blessed to have pro bowl or hall of fame level QB's his entire career. Montana to Young to Gannon to Hasselbeck. WR's are totally dependent on the QB to deliver the ball. You cant just assume that Rice carries whatever team that drafts him into being a dynasty. Like I said, it was the perfect storm.

Rice had a drive that most peopls just don't have. I'm around he and Lott on a daily basis. Rice would have been a star no matter what as he showed with different QB's and teams.

Once again, Steve Young without Rice would have hurt Steve not Rice. Ask T.O who he credits with making him a complete WR.

No disrespect to none of our HOF QB's, but JR is the very best football player that has ever walked this planet!

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Rice had a drive that most peopls just don't have. I'm around he and Lott on a daily basis. Rice would have been a star no matter what as he showed with different QB's and teams.

Once again, Steve Young without Rice would have hurt Steve not Rice. Ask T.O who he credits with making him a complete WR.

No disrespect to none of our HOF QB's, but JR is the very best football player that has ever walked this planet!

And I agree with you, but he wouldn't have been the GOAT in just any situation. By very nature a WR does not touch the football without the QB getting it to him. Look at Marquise Goodwin before and after Garoppolo. The level of QB play can be the difference between a WR being a non factor and a pro bowl caliber player.

Rice would've been a great player in most of the situations he could've ended up in, but hes not the GOAT without the right situation. He literally had 2 of the top 10 QB's in NFL history throwing him the ball for 15 years. You cant tell me he would've put up similar numbers with Vinny Testaverde and Trent Dilfer.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Rice had a drive that most peopls just don't have. I'm around he and Lott on a daily basis. Rice would have been a star no matter what as he showed with different QB's and teams.

Once again, Steve Young without Rice would have hurt Steve not Rice. Ask T.O who he credits with making him a complete WR.

No disrespect to none of our HOF QB's, but JR is the very best football player that has ever walked this planet!

And I agree with you, but he wouldn't have been the GOAT in just any situation. By very nature a WR does not touch the football without the QB getting it to him. Look at Marquise Goodwin before and after Garoppolo. The level of QB play can be the difference between a WR being a non factor and a pro bowl caliber player.

Rice would've been a great player in most of the situations he could've ended up in, but hes not the GOAT without the right situation. He literally had 2 of the top 10 QB's in NFL history throwing him the ball for 15 years. You cant tell me he would've put up similar numbers with Vinny Testaverde and Trent Dilfer.

Goodwin isn't Jerry Rice.

Between Lynn Sean, Barry Bonds, T. Brady, Baktiari (sp) from the packers just to name a few.

Serra high school has a long history of successful athletes. What is it about this school?

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Rice had a drive that most peopls just don't have. I'm around he and Lott on a daily basis. Rice would have been a star no matter what as he showed with different QB's and teams.

Once again, Steve Young without Rice would have hurt Steve not Rice. Ask T.O who he credits with making him a complete WR.

No disrespect to none of our HOF QB's, but JR is the very best football player that has ever walked this planet!

And I agree with you, but he wouldn't have been the GOAT in just any situation. By very nature a WR does not touch the football without the QB getting it to him. Look at Marquise Goodwin before and after Garoppolo. The level of QB play can be the difference between a WR being a non factor and a pro bowl caliber player.

Rice would've been a great player in most of the situations he could've ended up in, but hes not the GOAT without the right situation. He literally had 2 of the top 10 QB's in NFL history throwing him the ball for 15 years. You cant tell me he would've put up similar numbers with Vinny Testaverde and Trent Dilfer.

Goodwin isn't Jerry Rice.

I never said he was. I was using that as an example for how a WR can look good or bad based on how competent his QB is.

Would Rice have been the GOAT on the Buccaneers with Vinny Testaverde and Trent Dilfer as his QB's instead of Montana and Young? Of course not. You're essentially selling Montana and Young short by assuming that Rice would've been that good with just any QB. They complemented eachother. Montana use to put the ball in the perfect place. He was the master of throwing WR's open. Young had one of the most accurate, tight spirals ever.

Nobody here is trying to put down Jerry Rice. Its just very obvious that having 2 of the best ever throwing him passes for the vast majority of his career allowed him to pair his talent and tireless work ethic with the situation, and it resulted in being the greatest ever.

Originally posted by Niners99:

And I agree with you, but he wouldn't have been the GOAT in just any situation. By very nature a WR does not touch the football without the QB getting it to him. Look at Marquise Goodwin before and after Garoppolo. The level of QB play can be the difference between a WR being a non factor and a pro bowl caliber player.

Rice would've been a great player in most of the situations he could've ended up in, but hes not the GOAT without the right situation. He literally had 2 of the top 10 QB's in NFL history throwing him the ball for 15 years. You cant tell me he would've put up similar numbers with Vinny Testaverde and Trent Dilfer.

Montana and Young may have not been HoFers without the best organization in sports at the time, and HoF or elite/pro bowl level talent surrounding them on both sides of the ball. Plus an innovative system that was leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the league

WRs production is largely based on the qb obviously, although, Jerry woulda been special no matter what. My point: you are slightly discrediting Jerry by bringing up his qbs. His QBs were also largely dependant on external factors that largely benefited them. Mutually beneficial relationship