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Junipero Serra High School (San Mateo) - the house that Brady built

Originally posted by sacniner:
Montana and Young may have not been HoFers without the best organization in sports at the time, and HoF or elite/pro bowl level talent surrounding them on both sides of the ball. Plus an innovative system that was leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the league

WRs production is largely based on the qb obviously, although, Jerry woulda been special no matter what. My point: you are slightly discrediting Jerry by bringing up his qbs. His QBs were also largely dependant on external factors that largely benefited them. Mutually beneficial relationship

I dont think its discrediting at ALL to mention Joe Montana and Steve Young as being factors in Rice becoming the GOAT. Rice himself would laugh at anyone who downplayed their importance in his career and how things turned out. Montana was great before Rice. Its not disrespecting Jerry in any way to say that Montana and Young were a key part of his massive success. Its just common sense.

Jerry would've had varying levels of success on different teams, but it's safe to assume that being on the 49ers got his max value. I dont see any other team getting as much, or more success from his career than SF did. Maybe with Elway or Marino? But even then those teams didn't have anywhere near the supporting cast as the 49ers did.
Joe Montana would not have had the same success if he had been drafted by the Cleveland Browns instead of the Niners. He benefited from having the greatest offensive mind of his era coaching him on a daily basis and molding his game to what it became. The same can be said for Jerry Rice. Incredible talent who would have been great wherever he went but its hard to imagine that he would have had the same success on a mediocre team than he had with the 49ers.

The only thing that I would say regarding GOAT is this. There is zero doubt that Rice is the GOAT at his position while I dont believe that is the case for Montana.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Joe Montana would not have had the same success if he had been drafted by the Cleveland Browns instead of the Niners. He benefited from having the greatest offensive mind of his era coaching him on a daily basis and molding his game to what it became. The same can be said for Jerry Rice. Incredible talent who would have been great wherever he went but its hard to imagine that he would have had the same success on a mediocre team than he had with the 49ers.

The only thing that I would say regarding GOAT is this. There is zero doubt that Rice is the GOAT at his position while I dont believe that is the case for Montana.

I agree with this. That's my point. Jerry, Joe, and Steve all benefited from a great organization, coaching and talents. Not only Jerry lol
Originally posted by sacniner:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Joe Montana would not have had the same success if he had been drafted by the Cleveland Browns instead of the Niners. He benefited from having the greatest offensive mind of his era coaching him on a daily basis and molding his game to what it became. The same can be said for Jerry Rice. Incredible talent who would have been great wherever he went but its hard to imagine that he would have had the same success on a mediocre team than he had with the 49ers.

The only thing that I would say regarding GOAT is this. There is zero doubt that Rice is the GOAT at his position while I dont believe that is the case for Montana.

I agree with this. That's my point. Jerry, Joe, and Steve all benefited from a great organization, coaching and talents. Not only Jerry lol

Steve Young was not on a HOF path while in Tampa, Rice remained on his HOF path when he went to Oakland. Jerry Rice himself argued that he should have been the mvp of one of the SB's where Montana revived the MVP.

If anything, you could argue that Montana was established before Rice got there. But one could also argue that Jerry also got to a SB without Montana when he went to the raiders while Montana came up short with the Chiefs.
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by sacniner:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Joe Montana would not have had the same success if he had been drafted by the Cleveland Browns instead of the Niners. He benefited from having the greatest offensive mind of his era coaching him on a daily basis and molding his game to what it became. The same can be said for Jerry Rice. Incredible talent who would have been great wherever he went but its hard to imagine that he would have had the same success on a mediocre team than he had with the 49ers.

The only thing that I would say regarding GOAT is this. There is zero doubt that Rice is the GOAT at his position while I dont believe that is the case for Montana.

I agree with this. That's my point. Jerry, Joe, and Steve all benefited from a great organization, coaching and talents. Not only Jerry lol

Steve Young was not on a HOF path while in Tampa, Rice remained on his HOF path when he went to Oakland. Jerry Rice himself argued that he should have been the mvp of one of the SB's where Montana revived the MVP.

If anything, you could argue that Montana was established before Rice got there. But one could also argue that Jerry also got to a SB without Montana when he went to the raiders while Montana came up short with the Chiefs.
Well that had to be SB 24. Rice was amazing but Joe threw 5 TD passes that day. When a QB throws 5 TDS in a game its pretty hard to not award him the MVP.
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by sacniner:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Joe Montana would not have had the same success if he had been drafted by the Cleveland Browns instead of the Niners. He benefited from having the greatest offensive mind of his era coaching him on a daily basis and molding his game to what it became. The same can be said for Jerry Rice. Incredible talent who would have been great wherever he went but its hard to imagine that he would have had the same success on a mediocre team than he had with the 49ers.

The only thing that I would say regarding GOAT is this. There is zero doubt that Rice is the GOAT at his position while I dont believe that is the case for Montana.

I agree with this. That's my point. Jerry, Joe, and Steve all benefited from a great organization, coaching and talents. Not only Jerry lol

Steve Young was not on a HOF path while in Tampa, Rice remained on his HOF path when he went to Oakland. Jerry Rice himself argued that he should have been the mvp of one of the SB's where Montana revived the MVP.

If anything, you could argue that Montana was established before Rice got there. But one could also argue that Jerry also got to a SB without Montana when he went to the raiders while Montana came up short with the Chiefs.

lol you cant use an example of the very beginning of Young's career in crappy TB, and then compare it to a veteran Rice with the MVP Rich Gannon and a SB contending Oakland team.

Jerry Rice won the MVP of SB23, despite Montana orchestrating the most famous last minute drive in NFL history. Montana didnt win the MVP in his most iconic moment. He won 2 SB MVP's without Rice on the team, and in SB24 he had the greatest QB performance in Super Bowl history to that point. There were zero SB MVP's that Montana won unjustly over Rice.

Montana was Montana before Rice, so thats not an argument. Montana only played 5 seasons of his career with Jerry being Jerry. In 1985 Rice was terrible as a rookie, and by 1991 Young had taken over.

Rice being Rice after his SF days doesn't really prove anything, because Gannon was arguably the best QB in the league.

But anyways, im tired of arguing against Jerry Rice just because you're being unrealistic.
Originally posted by Niners99:
lol you cant use an example of the very beginning of Young's career in crappy TB, and then compare it to a veteran Rice with the MVP Rich Gannon and a SB contending Oakland team.

Jerry Rice won the MVP of SB23, despite Montana orchestrating the most famous last minute drive in NFL history. Montana didnt win the MVP in his most iconic moment. He won 2 SB MVP's without Rice on the team, and in SB24 he had the greatest QB performance in Super Bowl history to that point. There were zero SB MVP's that Montana won unjustly over Rice.

Montana was Montana before Rice, so thats not an argument. Montana only played 5 seasons of his career with Jerry being Jerry. In 1985 Rice was terrible as a rookie, and by 1991 Young had taken over.

Rice being Rice after his SF days doesn't really prove anything, because Gannon was arguably the best QB in the league.

But anyways, im tired of arguing against Jerry Rice just because you're being unrealistic.
The only point I would disagree with is that Rice was "terrible" as a rookie. Now, there is no doubt he had a lot of drops early in the season, but he did end up with close to 1000 yards and was named NFC Offensive Rookie of the Year. I remember going to the Rams game on a Monday night where he just dominated with 10 catches and over 200 yards. But he certainly had some growing pains at the start.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by 4ML:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Garce:
Barry Bonds went to Serra

Crazy that the greatest baseball player and arguably football player went to the same HS.

You call yourself a 49ers fan?

I hate Brady but do ppl still question that Brady isn't the greatest QB of all time?

How the rings were won matters. I think Montana won his 4 more decisively and dominantly than Brady did. People weren't really comfortable saying Brady was better until he won his 5th ring, yet one of those 5 was literally handed over by the Seahawks. Factor in Adam Vinatieri, the Falcons idiotically not running clock out and guaranteeing the victory, Deflate-gate, Spy-gate, etc.

Im comfortable called Montana at a perfect 4-0 with 0 picks, and a clean record the GOAT. He didn't get the benefits of ref protection either.

Stop this nonsense, Brady is the GOAT.
.
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Stop this nonsense, Brady is the GOAT.

The GOAT doesn't need Adam Vinatieri and Russell Wilson to win him his rings. He also doesn't lose Super Bowls or throw picks in Super Bowls. Not to mention Deflategate and Spygate.

I just think it's funny that his 5th ring and 4th MVP is what made him the GOAT to people, when the Seahawks literally gifted him a ring. So the difference between Brady being the GOAT and Montana being the GOAT is a stupid goal line decision by the opposing team?

Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Stop this nonsense, Brady is the GOAT.

The GOAT doesn't need Adam Vinatieri and Russell Wilson to win him his rings. He also doesn't lose Super Bowls or throw picks in Super Bowls. Not to mention Deflategate and Spygate.

I just think it's funny that his 5th ring and 4th MVP is what made him the GOAT to people, when the Seahawks literally gifted him a ring. So the difference between Brady being the GOAT and Montana being the GOAT is a stupid goal line decision by the opposing team?
Montana would have 1 less ring if that Bengal player doesn't drop that INT in the end zone prior to That Pass to Taylor
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Stop this nonsense, Brady is the GOAT.

The GOAT doesn't need Adam Vinatieri and Russell Wilson to win him his rings. He also doesn't lose Super Bowls or throw picks in Super Bowls. Not to mention Deflategate and Spygate.

I just think it's funny that his 5th ring and 4th MVP is what made him the GOAT to people, when the Seahawks literally gifted him a ring. So the difference between Brady being the GOAT and Montana being the GOAT is a stupid goal line decision by the opposing team?
Montana would have 1 less ring if that Bengal player doesn't drop that INT in the end zone prior to That Pass to Taylor

Maybe 2 if Dan Bunz and Hacksaw Reynolds dont make an amazing goal line stand in SB16. Joe was MVP in that game but he was not special.

I dont think SBs should be the only games looked at anyway when determining GOAT. What Brady is doing at age 40 is pretty fricking remarkable. I think a case can easily be made for him as GOAT.
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Stop this nonsense, Brady is the GOAT.

The GOAT doesn't need Adam Vinatieri and Russell Wilson to win him his rings. He also doesn't lose Super Bowls or throw picks in Super Bowls. Not to mention Deflategate and Spygate.

I just think it's funny that his 5th ring and 4th MVP is what made him the GOAT to people, when the Seahawks literally gifted him a ring. So the difference between Brady being the GOAT and Montana being the GOAT is a stupid goal line decision by the opposing team?
Montana would have 1 less ring if that Bengal player doesn't drop that INT in the end zone prior to That Pass to Taylor

That dropped pick happened in the beginning of the 4th quarter, not on that final drive.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Stop this nonsense, Brady is the GOAT.

The GOAT doesn't need Adam Vinatieri and Russell Wilson to win him his rings. He also doesn't lose Super Bowls or throw picks in Super Bowls. Not to mention Deflategate and Spygate.

I just think it's funny that his 5th ring and 4th MVP is what made him the GOAT to people, when the Seahawks literally gifted him a ring. So the difference between Brady being the GOAT and Montana being the GOAT is a stupid goal line decision by the opposing team?
Montana would have 1 less ring if that Bengal player doesn't drop that INT in the end zone prior to That Pass to Taylor

That dropped pick happened in the beginning of the 4th quarter, not on that final drive.

Yep. But it truly was a huge turning point because Montana hit Rice for a TD on the next play (i believe) to tie the game.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Stop this nonsense, Brady is the GOAT.

The GOAT doesn't need Adam Vinatieri and Russell Wilson to win him his rings. He also doesn't lose Super Bowls or throw picks in Super Bowls. Not to mention Deflategate and Spygate.

I just think it's funny that his 5th ring and 4th MVP is what made him the GOAT to people, when the Seahawks literally gifted him a ring. So the difference between Brady being the GOAT and Montana being the GOAT is a stupid goal line decision by the opposing team?
Montana would have 1 less ring if that Bengal player doesn't drop that INT in the end zone prior to That Pass to Taylor

Maybe 2 if Dan Bunz and Hacksaw Reynolds dont make an amazing goal line stand in SB16. Joe was MVP in that game but he was not special.

I dont think SBs should be the only games looked at anyway when determining GOAT. What Brady is doing at age 40 is pretty fricking remarkable. I think a case can easily be made for him as GOAT.

Theres a million variables. Imagine if Montana had played in an era where the QB was protected from harm, and he and Walsh were together for 18 years. Not to mention how easy the path to the Super Bowl has been in the AFC the last 5+ years. The Patriots always draw some weak matchup in the divisional round like KC, Indy, or Houston, and then just had to take out Manning's playoff choking self in the title game. Montana had to get through the Bears, Giants, Vikings, Cowboys, Redskins, etc. all while being brutalized.

Brady has had an incredible career, but between the tuck rule game, which would've taken away his first SB ring, Vinatieri being super clutch and nailing all his winning kicks, the Seahawks being total morons on the goal line, and even the Falcons for not burning any clock with a huge lead late, Brady's titles have been less impressive to me.

Brady has the bigger accumulation of accolades, but he isnt Joe. On the biggest stage in the biggest moments, Joe never lost. And he got there taking out some of the fiercest, most savage defenses in history, who were very much allowed to inflict bodily harm on him.

When I think about who the GOAT is, I say "what would Brady have done in the 80's?" Not a chance he accomplishes what Montana did. Ive seen games when Brady gets knocked around, and hes flustered. He isn the same guy. Montana dealt with that as a usual thing. And then Montana in this era would've been even better.
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