Lebron vs. His Airness

Originally posted by sacniner:
Dude, you are taking stats out of context. Sometime superstars on these types of teams have to shoot a lot. Have to. If no one else is coming thru. Lebron was clutch in the 4th, and yes, didn't do anything in OT. Once it went to OT, home team had it. I don't know what you mean by his FG % padded since he was 7-10 on passes that woulda been assists. What does that mean? Where did you get that stat from? You may be reaching, but I have no clue what that even means

Jesus man, he is at his best if he has a 25+ point game near triple double? Well no s**t. Who isn't at their best then lol. The Dubs out rebounded the Cavs but not sure if that was by a wide margin. Tristan Thompson and Mosgov should be gobbling up boards. You are putting astronomical measurements on what constitutes a good game for Lebron.

Thompson had 15 (6 offensive) and Mozgov had 7 (3 offensive). 22 boards between your starting 4/5 is very good.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
it could be argued even though he won those MVP those times..he still wasn't playing his full potential/Prime

It could also be argued that his teammates when from below average to unbelievably, we-could-win-55-games-without-you good over that time.

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:

Originally posted by sacniner:
Dude, you are taking stats out of context. Sometime superstars on these types of teams have to shoot a lot. Have to. If no one else is coming thru. Lebron was clutch in the 4th, and yes, didn't do anything in OT. Once it went to OT, home team had it. I don't know what you mean by his FG % padded since he was 7-10 on passes that woulda been assists. What does that mean? Where did you get that stat from? You may be reaching, but I have no clue what that even means

Jesus man, he is at his best if he has a 25+ point game near triple double? Well no s**t. Who isn't at their best then lol. The Dubs out rebounded the Cavs but not sure if that was by a wide margin. Tristan Thompson and Mosgov should be gobbling up boards. You are putting astronomical measurements on what constitutes a good game for Lebron.

Overall, he was 18-38 from the field. He was 11-28 from the field on ISO plays (meaning, plays where just took the ball and said get the f**k out of my way to teammates). When he actually allowed somebody else to have the ball in their hands, he was 7-10 from the field. Does that make better sense now?

Most players can't put up triple doubles. Lebron can, and does it with ease at times. His game isn't at its best when he's trying to go ISO the whole time. He isn't the shooter that MJ / Kobe was from mid-range / post. What that means, is that Lebron wasn't playing his game. He's at his best and so is the team, when plays defense, get's other involved, and doesn't try to shoot mid-range shots the whole game.

Yeah, that does make more sense. Not doubting your stats, but I haven't researched his shots segmented so if you have a link that would be cool. I don't agree that him going 7-10, if that figure is correct, somehow pads his stats.

I agree, Lebron is best when he is getting others involved. But if that isn't working, he has to try and take it over. The Cavs have a lot of streaky shooters, JR is the biggest example. If those guys aren't on, he has to shoot more. Because he will always shoulder 99% of the blame. Do you disagree? Also, him getting triple doubles at ease as you put it is an amazing testament to him by itself.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by sacniner:
Dude, you are taking stats out of context. Sometime superstars on these types of teams have to shoot a lot. Have to. If no one else is coming thru. Lebron was clutch in the 4th, and yes, didn't do anything in OT. Once it went to OT, home team had it. I don't know what you mean by his FG % padded since he was 7-10 on passes that woulda been assists. What does that mean? Where did you get that stat from? You may be reaching, but I have no clue what that even means

Jesus man, he is at his best if he has a 25+ point game near triple double? Well no s**t. Who isn't at their best then lol. The Dubs out rebounded the Cavs but not sure if that was by a wide margin. Tristan Thompson and Mosgov should be gobbling up boards. You are putting astronomical measurements on what constitutes a good game for Lebron.

Thompson had 15 (6 offensive) and Mozgov had 7 (3 offensive). 22 boards between your starting 4/5 is very good.

Yes, that is great. I didn't say those guys didn't go good on the boards, more of why LBJ's rebounds may have been down...

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
On 15-35 from the field, with 1 rebound and 1 assist. His team scored 87 points, for chrissakes. LeBron did more to help his team win last night that Jordan's hangov....errr..."sick" game.

When MJ got replaced with Pete friggin' Myers, the Bulls were still a 55 win team, and were a Hue Hollins travesty away from the Conference Finals. Yet he somehow gets all of the credit for their success. He was great, but easily the most overrated athlete of my lifetime.

I know all I need to know about you and ball now. Nobody else was capable of scoring that game aside from Kukoc. Pippens back was shot. MJ carried em. He did what hadn't before. Led league in scoring while winning chip 6 for 6 finals MVP 6 times retired and came back for the repeat three peat. He could've won eight straight if he didn't mourn his pop. He did what he did how he did it and you throwing a hissy over how he rated? What? You say you about ball but you ain't appreciating MJ? How is he supposed to be rated? MJ earned his praise. He dominated ball from the wing in a big mans game. Cmon man! You ain't gotta like him but he ruled his time with an iron fist!

Originally posted by SoCold:
Just looked it up. Jordan won his first MVP in 88 and lost to the Pistons in the playoffs
Won his 2nd in 91 and beat the Pistons in the playoffs

I'd say the 5 years he won 3 MVP's was pretty much the prime of his career and he lost to the Pistons three times

MJ could've been MVP a few more years too. He stayed in CHI until they got a team around him. He retired came back and had more around him. He also took less money all his career so he could pay others until he unretired. He knew he was winning and was raking in $60 million in endorsements.

Originally posted by sacniner:
Yeah, that does make more sense. Not doubting your stats, but I haven't researched his shots segmented so if you have a link that would be cool. I don't agree that him going 7-10, if that figure is correct, somehow pads his stats.

I agree, Lebron is best when he is getting others involved. But if that isn't working, he has to try and take it over. The Cavs have a lot of streaky shooters, JR is the biggest example. If those guys aren't on, he has to shoot more. Because he will always shoulder 99% of the blame. Do you disagree? Also, him getting triple doubles at ease as you put it is an amazing testament to him by itself.

Sorry, Jon Barry had those stats. Was listening on the radio. I tried looking up some kind of link, but couldn't find it. I'm sure LA probably knows one of those sites that completely break down the stats. But it does sound about right, especially when taking into account he was 2-8 from three.

I'm just saying, this wasn't a great Lebron James game, he's had much much better games than this.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
It could also be argued that his teammates when from below average to unbelievably, we-could-win-55-games-without-you good over that time.

When MJ retired they added pieces namely Kukoc. Pippen stepped up and CHI should have made the finals. When MJ returned they had Kukoc Harper and Rodman. They were better for him leaving but at the end Pippen was suffering from back spasms and MJ had to carry em. He messed up the back 96 playoffs vs Bullets on a game one dunk game winner. Wasn't the same since. They needed MJ. Stars decide playoff series. MJ personified that. He was six for six in finals and nothing you say can change that. He deserves his praise

I don't know how anyone can look at what LeBron did last night and say it wasn't an amazing performance. The guy was literally inches away from stealing game 1 from a Dubs team that heavily outmatches the rest of the Cavs roster. If James continues to play like that he deserves the Finals MVP, even if the Cavs get swept.

Originally posted by TheSixthRing:
I don't know how anyone can look at what LeBron did last night and say it wasn't an amazing performance. The guy was literally inches away from stealing game 1 from a Dubs team that heavily outmatches the rest of the Cavs roster. If James continues to play like that he deserves the Finals MVP, even if the Cavs get swept.

You can make that argument. It's happened before. He is clearly the most valuable player on the court. He wasn't perfect but he is better than he ever has been especially in terms of his aggressiveness and confidence. He is trying to take it. This is what's been missing. If he loses it will be with great resistance. He throwing elbows playing with attitude and repping Eastern conference ball the right way

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
On 15-35 from the field, with 1 rebound and 1 assist. His team scored 87 points, for chrissakes. LeBron did more to help his team win last night that Jordan's hangov....errr..."sick" game.

When MJ got replaced with Pete friggin' Myers, the Bulls were still a 55 win team, and were a Hue Hollins travesty away from the Conference Finals. Yet he somehow gets all of the credit for their success. He was great, but easily the most overrated athlete of my lifetime.

I know all I need to know about you and ball now. Nobody else was capable of scoring that game aside from Kukoc. Pippens back was shot. MJ carried em. He did what hadn't before. Led league in scoring while winning chip 6 for 6 finals MVP 6 times retired and came back for the repeat three peat. He could've won eight straight if he didn't mourn his pop. He did what he did how he did it and you throwing a hissy over how he rated? What? You say you about ball but you ain't appreciating MJ? How is he supposed to be rated? MJ earned his praise. He dominated ball from the wing in a big mans game. Cmon man! You ain't gotta like him but he ruled his time with an iron fist!

Oh please, lol. Every other Bull combined to shoot 59% from the field in that game. Ya, no one else was capable of scoring. Steve Kerr, the highest % 3 point shooter of all time played half of the game and didn't even get to shoot.

Their defense is what carried them. That team, between Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Harper, and others was perhaps the greatest collection of defensive talent that the game's ever seen. They scored 87 points!

But it's a lot easier to believe in the Disney movie with the simple storyline, where our hero drags himself out of drunken...err...sickness to rally his team back at the end to win the championship. Forget nuance or analysis...this is Hollywood, baby!And it cracks me up how you guys talk about ME being the one who's mad, or throwing a hissy fit. Y'all are the ones who get upset at anything other than complete hero worship of your childhood idol, who happened to be the most well marketed athlete of all time. Sometimes I dream...that he is me...

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Oh please, lol. Every other Bull combined to shoot 59% from the field in that game. Ya, no one else was capable of scoring. Steve Kerr, the highest % 3 point shooter of all time played half of the game and didn't even get to shoot.

Their defense is what carried them. That team, between Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Harper, and others was perhaps the greatest collection of defensive talent that the game's ever seen. They scored 87 points!

But it's a lot easier to believe in the Disney movie with the simple storyline, where our hero drags himself out of drunken...err...sickness to rally his team back at the end to win the championship. Forget nuance or analysis...this is Hollywood, baby!And it cracks me up how you guys talk about ME being the one who's mad, or throwing a hissy fit. Y'all are the ones who get upset at anything other than complete hero worship of your childhood idol, who happened to be the most well marketed athlete of all time. Sometimes I dream...that he is me...

Dude, do you have all these stats memorized? Lol

Originally posted by TheSixthRing:
I don't know how anyone can look at what LeBron did last night and say it wasn't an amazing performance. The guy was literally inches away from stealing game 1 from a Dubs team that heavily outmatches the rest of the Cavs roster. If James continues to play like that he deserves the Finals MVP, even if the Cavs get swept.

Yeah, its pretty crazy. A lot of people just flat out don't like him and will always keep raising the bar of what constitutes him playing well. There will be the "he is a good player, but (barrage of obvious hate)."

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Oh please, lol. Every other Bull combined to shoot 59% from the field in that game. Ya, no one else was capable of scoring. Steve Kerr, the highest % 3 point shooter of all time played half of the game and didn't even get to shoot.

Their defense is what carried them. That team, between Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Harper, and others was perhaps the greatest collection of defensive talent that the game's ever seen. They scored 87 points!

But it's a lot easier to believe in the Disney movie with the simple storyline, where our hero drags himself out of drunken...err...sickness to rally his team back at the end to win the championship. Forget nuance or analysis...this is Hollywood, baby!And it cracks me up how you guys talk about ME being the one who's mad, or throwing a hissy fit. Y'all are the ones who get upset at anything other than complete hero worship of your childhood idol, who happened to be the most well marketed athlete of all time. Sometimes I dream...that he is me...

Your rage is coming through dude! CHI was a defensive team. That's Eastern conference ball! MJ was the teams offensive catalyst. Why you think they rode him with the flu. You talking to a brother that seen the games. I saw what I saw. You talking to a dude that ain't your average dummy so you can save the fairy tale talk. Smh

There is a lot of hate for lebron, it started with the decision then the douchery that was the "big 3" on the heat and now it's carried with him. For my perspective I am a "hater" of lebron and it seems to grow every time I watch him play. He is an amazing talent but it's his attitude and gestures on the court that I can't stand. He openly flails around if a call doesn't go his way, complains constantly to the refs, meanwhile he is committing offensive fouls more often then not whenever he drives the ball into the paint or post. The refs rarely call it because he is who he is and I understand that. I'm probably the opposite of 4ML and will openly root against lebron wherever he plays and get thorough enjoyment to see the look on his face when he loses.

Oh yea and Jordan is still the best