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Week 3 NY Giants Coaches Film Analysis Thread

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Originally posted by the_dynasty:
Originally posted by thl408:
It can be risky if the offense has a couple good WRs. NYG doesn't have WRs that can really punish the 49er DBs in the passing game so it made sense to challenge them this way. We'll see if Wilks uses this versus MIN or CIN, teams with a superstar WR that can consistently win versus man coverage.

Yep, very risky against good passing offenses


The WR is wide open but thankfully Jones is flushed to his left and doesn't have the time/acumen to set feet and let it rip

It was a series I wanted to show. That play Lenoire got beat pretty well and the Giants tried to come back to this a couple plays later and Lenoire locked it down and I think Jones got pressured and flushed out.
Originally posted by iLLEST209ER:
Love the deep shot to deebo. He is known for his physicality but people forget he has 4.4 speed.

Wilks is putting his mark on the defense, I am a fan of the 5 man front look.

It's not too dissimilar to the old Bears 46 defense. That was all about man-cov across the board and letting their ridiculous front wreak havoc in 1v1 situations.


[ Edited by Afrikan on Sep 26, 2023 at 3:59 PM ]
Was really hoping to see a breakdown of the first drive and see why that was so different from the rest of the game. But basically all we saw were the better highlights.

Jonny I am sorry for ever calling you a Jimmy homer or defender. Clearly you just dont like to highlight bad plays regardless of who the QB is. I hope you accept my apology.
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Was really hoping to see a breakdown of the first drive and see why that was so different from the rest of the game. But basically all we saw were the better highlights.

Jonny I am sorry for ever calling you a Jimmy homer or defender. Clearly you just dont like to highlight bad plays regardless of who the QB is. I hope you accept my apology.

Although I respect and enjoy Jonny's work and I've forced his channel on co-workers and I recommend it to people on other forums... I won't totally agree with that part there.

Be it for Jimmy or 2015-2016... Kaepernick and Gabbert s**t. I can't forget that.

It's the past though, and things can change... we're having a good season with a good to great QB in Brock, so just enjoying this.
[ Edited by Afrikan on Sep 26, 2023 at 7:47 PM ]
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Was really hoping to see a breakdown of the first drive and see why that was so different from the rest of the game. But basically all we saw were the better highlights.

Jonny I am sorry for ever calling you a Jimmy homer or defender. Clearly you just dont like to highlight bad plays regardless of who the QB is. I hope you accept my apology.

I thought the problem was pretty obvious though. We came out with a gameplan to play more aggressively. Like more 5 step drops with more intermiedete to deep throws. they came out with a plan to blitz so we weren't able to set those plays up which led to hurried throws.

Thats why the gameplan altered to shorter wider passes to counter the blitz
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Was really hoping to see a breakdown of the first drive and see why that was so different from the rest of the game. But basically all we saw were the better highlights.

Jonny I am sorry for ever calling you a Jimmy homer or defender. Clearly you just dont like to highlight bad plays regardless of who the QB is. I hope you accept my apology.

I've always said, with the channel it's about the why's and how's. What was the outcome and how did we get there? Why did things end up the way they did? We scored 30 points, Brock threw for 300+ yards and 2 TD's and made some elite level throws. To me, looking at the misses on a day like that is just critiquing to critique.

Every QB will have misses. The overall story was extremely positive. I've always said this is what goes into my thought process.

I've shown Jimmy's negative plays when it was a low scoring game or we lost and I've covered every one of his picks.
  • Giedi
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Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by iLLEST209ER:
Love the deep shot to deebo. He is known for his physicality but people forget he has 4.4 speed.

Wilks is putting his mark on the defense, I am a fan of the 5 man front look.

It's not too dissimilar to the old Bears 46 defense. That was all about man-cov across the board and letting their ridiculous front wreak havoc in 1v1 situations.

Agree and I think the only difference would be one less linebacker and one more defensive back. If so, I think its a nice change up from the wide 9 - with only four down linemen.
  • thl408
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Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by iLLEST209ER:
Love the deep shot to deebo. He is known for his physicality but people forget he has 4.4 speed.

Wilks is putting his mark on the defense, I am a fan of the 5 man front look.

It's not too dissimilar to the old Bears 46 defense. That was all about man-cov across the board and letting their ridiculous front wreak havoc in 1v1 situations.

Agree and I think the only difference would be one less linebacker and one more defensive back. If so, I think its a nice change up from the wide 9 - with only four down linemen.

I don't see how the five DL front is like the Bears 46. The 46 put two LBs + the four DL on the line of scrimmage and brought a safety down into the box. The only thing the two have in common is man coverage.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by iLLEST209ER:
Love the deep shot to deebo. He is known for his physicality but people forget he has 4.4 speed.

Wilks is putting his mark on the defense, I am a fan of the 5 man front look.

It's not too dissimilar to the old Bears 46 defense. That was all about man-cov across the board and letting their ridiculous front wreak havoc in 1v1 situations.

Agree and I think the only difference would be one less linebacker and one more defensive back. If so, I think its a nice change up from the wide 9 - with only four down linemen.

I don't see how the five DL front is like the Bears 46. The 46 put two LBs + the four DL on the line of scrimmage and brought a safety down into the box. The only thing the two have in common is man coverage.

I said not toooooo dissimilar. The philosophy is the same. Cover the LOS, man-cov and have lots of pressure from it.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by iLLEST209ER:
Love the deep shot to deebo. He is known for his physicality but people forget he has 4.4 speed.

Wilks is putting his mark on the defense, I am a fan of the 5 man front look.

It's not too dissimilar to the old Bears 46 defense. That was all about man-cov across the board and letting their ridiculous front wreak havoc in 1v1 situations.

Damn I do miss Rex Ryan.....yah know..... we almost have a Doug Pank/ Seth Joyner on this team to boot. Whole key to that defense is the Box safety ....and we have both a LBer and SS that can could run a conventional 46 SS. We have that run/blitz/cover flexibility in both Huff and Warner.

Seth Joyner was one of my favorite players....only guy I know that has played DE/LB/SS and CB(with the cards) in his career.

Just one more random piece of trivia to throw in.... what made the 46 defense tick was throwing Richard Dent or Reggie White right on top of the center. Not that dissimilar to what the 49ers did with the elephant defense by making it hard to chip block the edge rushers AND chip the marquee rusher.
  • Giedi
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Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by iLLEST209ER:
Love the deep shot to deebo. He is known for his physicality but people forget he has 4.4 speed.

Wilks is putting his mark on the defense, I am a fan of the 5 man front look.

It's not too dissimilar to the old Bears 46 defense. That was all about man-cov across the board and letting their ridiculous front wreak havoc in 1v1 situations.

Agree and I think the only difference would be one less linebacker and one more defensive back. If so, I think its a nice change up from the wide 9 - with only four down linemen.

I don't see how the five DL front is like the Bears 46. The 46 put two LBs + the four DL on the line of scrimmage and brought a safety down into the box. The only thing the two have in common is man coverage.

In addition to what JD said, what I like about the 5 man pressure front is that it has 5 Defensive linemen at the LOS. The Wide 9 has those wide splits that I hate on the run game, as the D Linemen can easily be trapped, or gashed with quick hitters, with those splits. I think the 5th Defensive lineman helps the run game on those 3rd and longs for (1) screens and draws since the "noseguard" DLineman is closer to the LOS than a linebacker (2) for the QB doing an RPOs or Boots out wide.
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by iLLEST209ER:
Love the deep shot to deebo. He is known for his physicality but people forget he has 4.4 speed.

Wilks is putting his mark on the defense, I am a fan of the 5 man front look.

It's not too dissimilar to the old Bears 46 defense. That was all about man-cov across the board and letting their ridiculous front wreak havoc in 1v1 situations.

Agree and I think the only difference would be one less linebacker and one more defensive back. If so, I think its a nice change up from the wide 9 - with only four down linemen.

I don't see how the five DL front is like the Bears 46. The 46 put two LBs + the four DL on the line of scrimmage and brought a safety down into the box. The only thing the two have in common is man coverage.

I said not toooooo dissimilar. The philosophy is the same. Cover the LOS, man-cov and have lots of pressure from it.

Jonny del is 100% right

The similarity is you are creating one on one blocking and covering the alignment with a tweenner hybrid LB/Saftey.

46 worked because your DTs lined straight up over the guards, in the case of the eagles you flexed Reggie White in right on top of the center. You had a hybrid 3-4 type linebacker over the tackle, and your base DE over the left tackle. The linebacker was a choice rush that would blitz if the back stayed in to chip the middle.

At the snap there is no double team blocking. Each guard had to eat the DT one on one...then your poor b*****d of a center had to eat reggie white solo. Teams tried to chip the middle...but unless you are the oilers and had Lo White you are at a massive size disadvantage. The second the back stayed in though...you had that linebacker coming from the edge too....so basically very similar to what we are doing with 5 down lineman.

Back in the day...the WCO would just cut block those dudes and roll the pocket. Today? not so easy.

The 46 got its name from the safety. Doug Plank....you needed hybrid type players because the SS had to man up if your free safety was going to lurk and roam. You needed a dude you could leave alone in coverage...yet could clean up tackle on the edge. That defense was not really a sideline to sideline type defense..there was not a lot of backup to make a tackle. You needed a hybrid type LB with size that could play end/run support/cover...since the entire edge on the strong side of the defense hinged on that one dude instead of the conventional end (when he got flexed over the center).

edit to provide clarity....

The 46 defense had triggers...not sure I made that clear. Your SS and LBers are on the edge. If a team tried to save the middle of the line with RBs or TEs or FBs ie max protect... That would trigger more edge blitzing. That was by design to blitz were the blocking is not at. That whole block inside-out thing. The 46 would send more edge pressure with a "free" path to the QB.

The WCO killed the 46 when we were healthy with cutblocks both KC against the oilers and the 49ers against the bears or it would have been a bigger thing. Both teams also ran with HUGE RBs....49ers ran double FBs in Craig and Rathman. two guys between 230 and 240. KC Had Marcus Allen(@220)(post blocking for Bo Jackson as a FB) and Kimble Anders(230). In that era the 49ers had linemen that were 250-270. So these were BIG RBs.
[ Edited by Dshearn on Sep 27, 2023 at 8:23 AM ]
  • thl408
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  • Posts: 32,103
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by iLLEST209ER:
Love the deep shot to deebo. He is known for his physicality but people forget he has 4.4 speed.

Wilks is putting his mark on the defense, I am a fan of the 5 man front look.

It's not too dissimilar to the old Bears 46 defense. That was all about man-cov across the board and letting their ridiculous front wreak havoc in 1v1 situations.

Agree and I think the only difference would be one less linebacker and one more defensive back. If so, I think its a nice change up from the wide 9 - with only four down linemen.

I don't see how the five DL front is like the Bears 46. The 46 put two LBs + the four DL on the line of scrimmage and brought a safety down into the box. The only thing the two have in common is man coverage.

I said not toooooo dissimilar. The philosophy is the same. Cover the LOS, man-cov and have lots of pressure from it.

When I think of the 46, I think of its unique alignment up front. So in that sense, I don't see the similarity, neither in personnel or alignment. I also think the 49ers five man front is set out to pressure the QB whereas the 46's primary mission was to stuff the run, hence the 46's box safety for +1 in run defense.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 32,103
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by iLLEST209ER:
Love the deep shot to deebo. He is known for his physicality but people forget he has 4.4 speed.

Wilks is putting his mark on the defense, I am a fan of the 5 man front look.

It's not too dissimilar to the old Bears 46 defense. That was all about man-cov across the board and letting their ridiculous front wreak havoc in 1v1 situations.

Agree and I think the only difference would be one less linebacker and one more defensive back. If so, I think its a nice change up from the wide 9 - with only four down linemen.

I don't see how the five DL front is like the Bears 46. The 46 put two LBs + the four DL on the line of scrimmage and brought a safety down into the box. The only thing the two have in common is man coverage.

I said not toooooo dissimilar. The philosophy is the same. Cover the LOS, man-cov and have lots of pressure from it.

Jonny del is 100% right

The similarity is you are creating one on one blocking and covering the alignment with a tweenner hybrid LB/Saftey.

46 worked because your DTs lined straight up over the guards, in the case of the eagles you flexed Reggie White in right on top of the center. You had a hybrid 3-4 type linebacker over the tackle, and your base DE over the left tackle. The linebacker was a choice rush that would blitz if the back stayed in to chip the middle.

At the snap there is no double team blocking. Each guard had to eat the DT one on one...then your poor b*****d of a center had to eat reggie white solo. Teams tried to chip the middle...but unless you are the oilers and had Lo White you are at a massive size disadvantage. The second the back stayed in though...you had that linebacker coming from the edge too....so basically very similar to what we are doing with 5 down lineman.

Back in the day...the WCO would just cut block those dudes and roll the pocket. Today? not so easy.

The 46 got its name from the safety. Doug Plank....you needed hybrid type players because the SS had to man up if your free safety was going to lurk and roam. You needed a dude you could leave alone in coverage...yet could clean up tackle on the edge. That defense was not really a sideline to sideline type defense..there was not a lot of backup to make a tackle. You needed a hybrid type LB with size that could play end/run support/cover...since the entire edge on the strong side of the defense hinged on that one dude instead of the conventional end (when he got flexed over the center).

edit to provide clarity....

The 46 defense had triggers...not sure I made that clear. Your SS and LBers are on the edge. If a team tried to save the middle of the line with RBs or TEs or FBs ie max protect... That would trigger more edge blitzing. That was by design to blitz were the blocking is not at. That whole block inside-out thing. The 46 would send more edge pressure with a "free" path to the QB.

The WCO killed the 46 when we were healthy with cutblocks both KC against the oilers and the 49ers against the bears or it would have been a bigger thing. Both teams also ran with HUGE RBs....49ers ran double FBs in Craig and Rathman. two guys between 230 and 240. KC Had Marcus Allen(@220)(post blocking for Bo Jackson as a FB) and Kimble Anders(230). In that era the 49ers had linemen that were 250-270. So these were BIG RBs.

What you stated about the 46 is all correct. But it doesn't tell me why it's similar to what the 49ers are doing in their five DL front.
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