QB Brock Purdy Thread

Originally posted by tankle104:
Does anyone have Brock's tight window stats from 2022 and 2023? To compare it to 2024? Cause last season we had terrible separation - literally the worst in the league. So when essentially EVERY throw is technically considered a tight window throw (1 yard or less of sep), then it may be skewed for 2024, IMO.

i think Brock understands he doesn't have a cannon and tries to compensate that with timing/touch/accuracy.

im really intrigued to see him this year cause last year the skill positions around him didn't do him many favors. So far in his careers he's either had excellent skill player options or bad (from a separation standpoint).

I don't see the correlation….the point of bringing up tight window throws is to determine if you can complete those hard throws when there isn't a ton of separation. If there's all kinds of separation, then it's not considered a "tight window" throw.

and that stat is over the course of 2 yrs. I do think arm talent plays a part on those types of throws. Is what it is there. He compensates with processing and anticipation. I wouldn't say he elite accurate and I would contribute that to mechanics, which he can absolutely work on and get better at. Mentally he's towards the top of the league at playing the position imo.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Keshawn is correct. Not sure what the other guy is saying. It's dumb.

I'm convinced, nothing but multiple Super Bowls will convince these people. That "Mr. Irrelevant" draft status is really short circuiting people's brains. People simply can't handle it.

How long did it take Tony Romo before folks sDick Vermeiltarted saying he was a legit good QB? He was an UDFA back in 2003.

To be honest, IMHO, "Mr. Irrelevant" is worst than going undrafted. Tony Romo was nowhere near as polarizing as Purdy is (no fault of his own). I mean, the guy can't even get the benefit of the "eye test". When Tony Romo won the starting job and was winning games I don't remember anyone saying that it was due to Bill Parcells (or Maurice Carthon's offensive scheme). I didn't hear people hammering Kurt Warner sighting that he was a mere beneficiary of Dick Vermeil's scheme. Nobody credited their "Avengers" for their success. They got praised for their play on the field, pro bowls, and SB's. Their play, not their coaches, got the credit. Nobody criticized or pocket-watched them when they got paid. But not "Mr. Irrelevant". Shanny's brilliance and "the Avengers" are getting all the credit, thus he's over paid. According to his critics, Purdy should have been paid in the mid 40's annually, if not forced to play out his rookie deal.

No, the gravity in which all of Purdy's criticism circles is his "Mr. Irrelevant" draft status, pure and simple - not his arm strength or below average size for starting NFL QB's. Those are cop-outs. What "Mr. Irrelevant" (not Brock Purdy) has done strains their comprehension. Therefore, Purdy has to "prove too much" in the eyes of the likes of Colin Cowherd, Nick Wright, T. J. Houshmandzadeh, or Grant Cohan. To truly prove he's legit Purdy has to win multiple SB's with UFL level talent around him while overcoming B-level coaching. And oh yeah, he has to do so in inclement weather every game, preferably rain.

"Reductio ad absurdum"!

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Brock's arm is fine for Kyle's offense since the 49ers don't try many really deep passes. They don't have a bunch of 4.3 WRs streaking downfield. When Brock throws 30 yards or less he's accurate enough to excel. When he tries to launch one 40-50 yards in the air the ball tends to hang in the air too long. Receivers usualy need to slow up which allows the DB to close the gap. Stick with the short and midrange stuff and they're fine. There are only a handful of QBs that can accurately throw a ball 50 yards or more in the air and hit the receiver in stride.

Kyle absolutely loved explosive plays. His arm talent is good enough for throwing deep balls. Overall that's not an arm strength thing. So long as you're in rhythm and complete your drop on time (think play-action bomb).

his deeper balls do hang a little, but overall he's accurate enough on those balls… it hasn't hurt him.

For me the arm stuff comes up on those tight window throws and out routes. Is what it is. For me I would love for him to start using his legs more…that's an added element that can be used. He's got power and is twitchy enough to make guys miss. Easy yards.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
To be honest, IMHO, "Mr. Irrelevant" is worst than going undrafted. Tony Romo was nowhere near as polarizing as Purdy is (no fault of his own). I mean, the guy can't even get the benefit of the "eye test". When Tony Romo won the starting job and was winning games I don't remember anyone saying that it was due to Bill Parcells (or Maurice Carthon's offensive scheme). I didn't hear people hammering Kurt Warner sighting that he was a mere beneficiary of Dick Vermeil's scheme. Nobody credited their "Avengers" for their success. They got praised for their play on the field, pro bowls, and SB's. Their play, not their coaches, got the credit. Nobody criticized or pocket-watched them when they got paid. But not "Mr. Irrelevant". Shanny's brilliance and "the Avengers" are getting all the credit, thus he's over paid. According to his critics, Purdy should have been paid in the mid 40's annually, if not forced to play out his rookie deal.

No, the gravity in which all of Purdy's criticism circles is his "Mr. Irrelevant" draft status, pure and simple - not his arm strength or below average size for starting NFL QB's. Those are cop-outs. What "Mr. Irrelevant" (not Brock Purdy) has done strains their comprehension. Therefore, Purdy has to "prove too much" in the eyes of the likes of Colin Cowherd, Nick Wright, T. J. Houshmandzadeh, or Grant Cohan. To truly prove he's legit Purdy has to win multiple SB's with UFL level talent around him while overcoming B-level coaching. And oh yeah, he has to do so in inclement weather every game, preferably rain.

"Reductio ad absurdum"!

There also wasn't a ton of hot take shows when Warner played or really at the beginning of Romeo's career. I believe both of those guys were bigger with stronger arms as well.

I think we as fans have a bias take on our guy, which is just normal defense stuff. "That's our kid" lol.

You can fine plenty of pro-Purdy takes out there as well…but overall no one gets hot and bothered by those ones for a reason.

TJH is just talking, dude's opinion matters about as much as my kids lol. Saying he should make $40M per just shows how out of touch he is in regard to actual contracts and what matters BUT if got fans talking about him so that's all that matters…it's easy to get 49er fans all riled up

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Brock's arm is fine for Kyle's offense since the 49ers don't try many really deep passes. They don't have a bunch of 4.3 WRs streaking downfield. When Brock throws 30 yards or less he's accurate enough to excel. When he tries to launch one 40-50 yards in the air the ball tends to hang in the air too long. Receivers usualy need to slow up which allows the DB to close the gap. Stick with the short and midrange stuff and they're fine. There are only a handful of QBs that can accurately throw a ball 50 yards or more in the air and hit the receiver in stride.

Kyle absolutely loved explosive plays. His arm talent is good enough for throwing deep balls. Overall that's not an arm strength thing. So long as you're in rhythm and complete your drop on time (think play-action bomb).

his deeper balls do hang a little, but overall he's accurate enough on those balls… it hasn't hurt him.

For me the arm stuff comes up on those tight window throws and out routes. Is what it is. For me I would love for him to start using his legs more…that's an added element that can be used. He's got power and is twitchy enough to make guys miss. Easy yards.

I haven't seen him make many throws that traveled 40 yards or more in the air where his receiver didn't need to slow up or come back to try and make the catch. He always has to put more air under the throw to get it that far. The guys with the really strong arms don't need to do that. The Niners big plays usually come from YAC not yards in the air.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Brock's arm is fine for Kyle's offense since the 49ers don't try many really deep passes. They don't have a bunch of 4.3 WRs streaking downfield. When Brock throws 30 yards or less he's accurate enough to excel. When he tries to launch one 40-50 yards in the air the ball tends to hang in the air too long. Receivers usualy need to slow up which allows the DB to close the gap. Stick with the short and midrange stuff and they're fine. There are only a handful of QBs that can accurately throw a ball 50 yards or more in the air and hit the receiver in stride.

the issue i am seeing is teams sit on the intermediate in breaking routes we love to throw with brock. the nfl adjusts to what you do well. i saw that explain some of 2024. he has to be such an anticipatory thrower, and the D can anticipate what he's doing as much as we can if they see it on film. so they jump our stuff. gonna have to go away from the middle all the time to be successful in the long term. a lot of the yac stuff is dead. deebo was the king at that he was a talent with the ball in his hands, then he got old.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I haven't seen him make many throws that traveled 40 yards or more in the air where his receiver didn't need to slow up or come back to try and make the catch. He always has to put more air under the throw to get it that far. The guys with the really strong arms don't need to do that. The Niners big plays usually come from YAC not yards in the air.

Brock was 3rd in NFL in completed air yards per completion (2nd last yr) - yards the ball traveled in the air past the line of scrimmage prior to a completion.

he was 1st in completed air yards per pass attempt (1st last yr) - Air yards (on completed passes) per pass attempt

Dude throws the ball downfield at a high rate. He also holds onto the ball longer than most QBs.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I haven't seen him make many throws that traveled 40 yards or more in the air where his receiver didn't need to slow up or come back to try and make the catch. He always has to put more air under the throw to get it that far. The guys with the really strong arms don't need to do that. The Niners big plays usually come from YAC not yards in the air.

Brock was 3rd in NFL in completed air yards per completion (2nd last yr) - yards the ball traveled in the air past the line of scrimmage prior to a completion.

he was 1st in completed air yards per pass attempt (1st last yr) - Air yards (on completed passes) per pass attempt

Dude throws the ball downfield at a high rate. He also holds onto the ball longer than most QBs.

Those numbers don't mean much. He has a high completion percentage so all those 10-20 yard throws add up to alot of air yards. The odds of completed throws under 20 yards are far greater than throwing 40 yards. It's no surprise that QBs that play for Kyle often have high completion percentages since they don't throw really deep very often.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I haven't seen him make many throws that traveled 40 yards or more in the air where his receiver didn't need to slow up or come back to try and make the catch. He always has to put more air under the throw to get it that far. The guys with the really strong arms don't need to do that. The Niners big plays usually come from YAC not yards in the air.

Brock was 3rd in NFL in completed air yards per completion (2nd last yr) - yards the ball traveled in the air past the line of scrimmage prior to a completion.

he was 1st in completed air yards per pass attempt (1st last yr) - Air yards (on completed passes) per pass attempt

Dude throws the ball downfield at a high rate. He also holds onto the ball longer than most QBs.

Those numbers don't mean much. He has a high completion percentage so all those 10-20 yard throws add up to alot of air yards. The odds of completed throws under 20 yards are far greater than throwing 40 yards. It's no surprise that QBs that play for Kyle often have high completion percentages since they don't throw really deep very often.

https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/category/passing/2023/REG/all/passing40plusyardseach/DESC

https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/category/passing/2024/reg/all/passing40plusyardseach/desc

40 yard passes are definitely in Brock's wheelhouse, and he has excelled in such passes compared to his peers. Of course, these stats are total yards and not air yards, but the point remains, Brock pushes the ball downfield and has arguably more success a deep passer over the last two and a half years than any QB over that stretch. But yes, if he has to push it 50+, the ball tends to hang and he can't exactly just flick his wrist like other guys. But such throws (beyond 50 yards) maybe account for 2-4% of a QBs throws in a game.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Those numbers don't mean much. He has a high completion percentage so all those 10-20 yard throws add up to alot of air yards. The odds of completed throws under 20 yards are far greater than throwing 40 yards. It's no surprise that QBs that play for Kyle often have high completion percentages since they don't throw really deep very often.

We're comparing him to his peers and those numbers show he pushing the ball through the air more than anyone else in the league. that's the debate.

you can't say a guy who leading the league in a bunch of air yards stats doesn't throw the ball downfield. The data is proving that take wrong

I have to head out, but wanted to say that I thought Genus's criticism of NY being jaded about Purdy earlier was a bit unwarranted. NY had a far more critical eye on Purdy after 2022, when he was still a more unknown, but I feel that NY has adjusted with new info quite well, even if he isn't among the most optimistic of posters. But credit where credit is due, I think he has a reasonable outlook even if I don't agree with everything on Purdy.

I'm still waiting on SmokeyJoe to describe how exactly Purdy's 2023 numbers were a mirage and he was a fringe top ten QB that year. I'm all ears on that take.

Originally posted by Chance:
I have to head out, but wanted to say that I thought Genus's criticism of NY being jaded about Purdy earlier was a bit unwarranted. NY had a far more critical eye on Purdy after 2022, when he was still a more unknown, but I feel that NY has adjusted with new info quite well, even if he isn't among the most optimistic of posters. But credit where credit is due, I think he has a reasonable outlook even if I don't agree with everything on Purdy.

I'm still waiting on SmokeyJoe to describe how exactly Purdy's 2023 numbers were a mirage and he was a fringe top ten QB that year. I'm all ears on that take.

Thank you. I'm more than happy with Brock being the dude right now.

Originally posted by Chance:
I have to head out, but wanted to say that I thought Genus's criticism of NY being jaded about Purdy earlier was a bit unwarranted. NY had a far more critical eye on Purdy after 2022, when he was still a more unknown, but I feel that NY has adjusted with new info quite well, even if he isn't among the most optimistic of posters. But credit where credit is due, I think he has a reasonable outlook even if I don't agree with everything on Purdy.

I'm still waiting on SmokeyJoe to describe how exactly Purdy's 2023 numbers were a mirage and he was a fringe top ten QB that year. I'm all ears on that take.

I don't look at his numbers as a mirage. He certainly played really well for 3/4 of the season at least. I look at his numbers as inflated… more of a statement about our offense as a whole than his individual ability. This would be true for any QB. The bottom line is I don't think the numbers people use are a good way of evaluating a player, and I think every QB who has played for Kyle Shanahan has had inflated production, from Schuab to RG3 to Ryan to Mullens etc.

As far as whether he's a fringe top 10 QB, or a top 15 QB etc, I was mostly talking about outside opinion. I ranked Purdy like 8th or 9th coming out of 2023, and he's lower after this last season. That's not to say he wasn't a top 2-3 QB in 2023 statistically… he inarguably was. But I also believe there was at least 7,8,9 other QBs who could have replicated that production or been better in our situation… especially down the stretch and into the playoffs. He had arguably the easiest job of any QB in the league.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I'm totally jumping in this convo and you can tell me if I'm reading the debate wrong…but why are folks talking about how far someone can throw a football in regards to "arm strength"? All these NFL level QBs can throw a football 50+ yards downfield, especially when you can set your feet and throw…if they couldn't they won't be in the NFL to begin with.

Arm strength in the NFL is making those tight window throws or tossing an out route with real velocity. Arm strength is being able to flick a football downfield on a rope without having to reset your feet all the time.

maybe folks are talking about "flashy" plays in regards to arm talent…but the reality is windows and guys being "open" are small. Arm talent absolutely matters at the highest level when your job is to throw a football and you're playing against the best athletes in the world. Brock makes up for whatever deficients he has there with being able to process fast and throw with anticipation. I don't think his arm overall limits what Kyle can run here.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by genus49:
Which play would you say last year showed Brock's arm limitation hurting us?

There are two different things in your post IMO. There is his arm limitation which IMO he understands very well and his gunslinger mentality which for any QB with that mentality, comes with good and bad. There is a reason Brett Favre led the NFL in interceptions. Certainly no arm limitations there.

I would also agree that Brock needs to regroup and reign in that gunslinger mentality a bit more moving forward. There's a time and a place. If both the short and the big plays are open - go for the big one if you think you can make the throw. However that mental processor has to be in overdrive cuz you better know if the big play is worth giving that down away if you don't connect. Sometimes it's better to take the short stuff and see what your guys can do then move to the next down.

I think Brock may have been trying to play more hero ball last year cuz of the missing pieces and it led to some poor habits from him and given his recent comments I think he understood that and will be fixing it moving forward.

See my post above… I don't think his arm talent hurts the team's ability to run Kyle's offense.

I was just explaining how he is a gunslinger and he might not have the biggest gun to make it happen all the time. I would rather have a guy who's willing to push the ball vs take the check down all game. Be smart about it though.

maybe he was trying a little too much, but I think that's kinda who he is too. He was the same way in college.

You're pretty much saying the same thing I am.

The short of it is Purdy's arm is mentioned like a real weakness where in reality it's fine for what this offense and he need to do to win us lots of football games assuming the other things aren't slacking.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
There also wasn't a ton of hot take shows when Warner played or really at the beginning of Romeo's career. I believe both of those guys were bigger with stronger arms as well.

I think we as fans have a bias take on our guy, which is just normal defense stuff. "That's our kid" lol.

You can fine plenty of pro-Purdy takes out there as well…but overall no one gets hot and bothered by those ones for a reason.

TJH is just talking, dude's opinion matters about as much as my kids lol. Saying he should make $40M per just shows how out of touch he is in regard to actual contracts and what matters BUT if got fans talking about him so that's all that matters…it's easy to get 49er fans all riled up

That's a great point. No real social media back in that day and Sports media actually tried to report things properly and didn't get into click bait/hot take stuff until social media boom and youtube came to be a huge way to make revenue.

But it's clear that looking at Brock he's underrated just because of how he looks and what makes his game strong - he needs players around him because he's at his best finding the right spot to throw to and getting the ball there. He's had his moments of taking games over but overall we're not going to win a lot of games like that. And the way things are today they need the guys who can be highlight worthy more times than not.

End of the day if Brock takes care of business and it's nothing flashy I don't care. Just win baby.