There are 431 users in the forums

QB Brock Purdy Thread

Shop Find 49ers gear online

QB Brock Purdy Thread

Originally posted by Chance:
And his only other year he was an MVP runner up.

If T-Law had this kind of success, he'd be talked about as a top 5 QB, guaran-f**king-teed.

I can take hacks in the media taking shots at Purdy. They likely don't watch him play other than in highlights. But our own fans? Who presumably watch his every dropback, at that point, you just have a f**king axe to grind.

I mean the success you're talking about is primarily statistical right?

Yea, if Lawrence was putting up the kind of production Purdy has had in his situation in Jacksonville, he'd probably be looked at as a top 5 quarterback. Because that's what it would take to have that kind of production in that situation.

Most of the fans who do these comparisons never actually compare the players. They compare numbers (heavily driven by situation) and team accomplishment.
The above videos are auto-populated by an affiliate.
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
i just don't get this line of thinking. do our own fans need to think moody is #1 at kicking? or jennings better than justin jefferson? why do we evaluate those guys as not best at their position, and brock has to be #1? ppl get emotional on QB, and they tend to see other positions for what they are.

strawman
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by Chance:
And his only other year he was an MVP runner up.

If T-Law had this kind of success, he'd be talked about as a top 5 QB, guaran-f**king-teed.

I can take hacks in the media taking shots at Purdy. They likely don't watch him play other than in highlights. But our own fans? Who presumably watch his every dropback, at that point, you just have a f**king axe to grind.

I mean the success you're talking about is primarily statistical right?

Yea, if Lawrence was putting up the kind of production Purdy has had in his situation in Jacksonville, he'd probably be looked at as a top 5 quarterback. Because that's what it would take to have that kind of production in that situation.

Most of the fans who do these comparisons never actually compare the players. They compare numbers (heavily driven by situation) and team accomplishment.

Statistics are relevant since we can never have a comparison where we allow Trevor Lawrence to play for the Niners and vice versa, just so we can see.

But also watching Purdy do things at an elite level, like throwing with anticipation and progressing through his reads, and making good decisions, and moving in the pocket and making plays when things break down. We can use that to support our argument too, and I certainly do. Purdy is special in what he does well, and my opinion is that those traits he excels in are the most important traits of being an NFL QB. And I'll take that to the mat.
Okay
Originally posted by Chance:
Statistics are relevant since we can never have a comparison where we allow Trevor Lawrence to play for the Niners and vice versa, just so we can see.

But also watching Purdy do things at an elite level, like throwing with anticipation and progressing through his reads, and making good decisions, and moving in the pocket and making plays when things break down. We can use that to support our argument too, and I certainly do. Purdy is special in what he does well, and my opinion is that those traits he excels in are the most important traits of being an NFL QB. And I'll take that to the mat.

Statistics just aren't the best way to compare players. Competent film review is.

it's understandable that people don't have the time or knowledge to break down film of all these players, but that's how to do a proper comparison, and a lack of that time and knowledge doesn't make the arguments based on selected stats any better.

Purdy does plenty of things well, including the things you listed. There are other QBs who can do these things too but don't match Purdy's best statistical outputs because their situation and responsibility is different. You can really only see that by watching film as it's clearly not reflected in numbers.

It's one of the reasons there are wide chasms a lot of time between fan opinion and opinion among the teams themselves (where it's accessible). Why 49ers fans would have Brock as a top 5 QB after 2023, but he's fringe top 10 in personnel surveys etc.
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by Chance:
Statistics are relevant since we can never have a comparison where we allow Trevor Lawrence to play for the Niners and vice versa, just so we can see.

But also watching Purdy do things at an elite level, like throwing with anticipation and progressing through his reads, and making good decisions, and moving in the pocket and making plays when things break down. We can use that to support our argument too, and I certainly do. Purdy is special in what he does well, and my opinion is that those traits he excels in are the most important traits of being an NFL QB. And I'll take that to the mat.

Statistics just aren't the best way to compare players. Competent film review is.

it's understandable that people don't have the time or knowledge to break down film of all these players, but that's how to do a proper comparison, and a lack of that time and knowledge doesn't make the arguments based on selected stats any better.

Purdy does plenty of things well, including the things you listed. There are other QBs who can do these things too but don't match Purdy's best statistical outputs because their situation and responsibility is different. You can really only see that by watching film as it's clearly not reflected in numbers.

It's one of the reasons there are wide chasms a lot of time between fan opinion and opinion among the teams themselves (where it's accessible). Why 49ers fans would have Brock as a top 5 QB after 2023, but he's fringe top 10 in personnel surveys etc.

I've watched every QB School breakdown of Brock's play, and many QB school breakdowns of other good young QBs. I've also watched many of the breakdowns from Chase Daniels. JTO and Chase Daniels aren't the be-all-end-all of QB gurus, but it's accessible to fans like you and I. Watching the all-22, it's clear that Brock is among the best in the league at throwing with anticipation. I'm not here arguing that other QBs aren't out here throwing with anticipation, and honestly, none of us have the time to find out just how many current guys are at Brock's level, but I trust when JTO, who watches all these guys play, says that only a couple of guys in the world do it at Brock's level.

And throwing with anticipation is a window we have into Brock's ability to process the game. He simply is very f**king good at this skill and impressive enough that the guys who study his film, tell us he's among the best. I take that to the bank more than I do what Cam Newton or TJ Whosyourmama have to say, because we know there's only a few of these guys watching every dropback.

We should also be careful of looking at personnel surveys. They are as prone to problematic thinking as are anyone else. We already know that the personnel in the NFL thought Brock was a UDFA in 2022. So it's not out of the question, they are wrong when they say he's fringe 10. It's also not out of the realm of possibilities that the personnel have a stake in being proven correct in the long-term about Brock (it's not easy when the NFL collectively whiffs at a guy who is competing as an MVP in his first full season playing). And even if these arbitrary ranking and tiers of QBs were accurate enough to predict future QB play, which they aren't, 10 is pretty f**king good for a guy who still is figuring out the game. I personally think he's better than most people think, or at least he will be better, but I'm also just an idiot on the internet.
  • pdc20
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,221
TJ said that Brock was overpaid and then said that he would have paid him 47 millions a year.^^
What's the difference seriously?^^
Originally posted by Chance:
I've watched every QB School breakdown of Brock's play, and many QB school breakdowns of other good young QBs. I've also watched many of the breakdowns from Chase Daniels. JTO and Chase Daniels aren't the be-all-end-all of QB gurus, but it's accessible to fans like you and I. Watching the all-22, it's clear that Brock is among the best in the league at throwing with anticipation. I'm not here arguing that other QBs aren't out here throwing with anticipation, and honestly, none of us have the time to find out just how many current guys are at Brock's level, but I trust when JTO, who watches all these guys play, says that only a couple of guys in the world do it at Brock's level.

And throwing with anticipation is a window we have into Brock's ability to process the game. He simply is very f**king good at this skill and impressive enough that the guys who study his film, tell us he's among the best. I take that to the bank more than I do what Cam Newton or TJ Whosyourmama have to say, because we know there's only a few of these guys watching every dropback.

We should also be careful of looking at personnel surveys. They are as prone to problematic thinking as are anyone else. We already know that the personnel in the NFL thought Brock was a UDFA in 2022. So it's not out of the question, they are wrong when they say he's fringe 10. It's also not out of the realm of possibilities that the personnel have a stake in being proven correct in the long-term about Brock (it's not easy when the NFL collectively whiffs at a guy who is competing as an MVP in his first full season playing). And even if these arbitrary ranking and tiers of QBs were accurate enough to predict future QB play, which they aren't, 10 is pretty f**king good for a guy who still is figuring out the game. I personally think he's better than most people think, or at least he will be better, but I'm also just an idiot on the internet.

Just an FYI, I agree Brock is 'elite' when it comes to anticipatory throwing. He has to be. So is Tua. It's one skill.

Watching all those JTO videos you would have had to hear the questioning around Brock's ability that you see from many other competent analysts. He has pointed out issues along the way as well as his positives, as any objective analyst would. I would be surprised if he ranked Brock in the top 10 quarterbacks in the NFL if he were to ever make a list.

As far as personnel surveys go, it was mainly an example specifically following Brock's great statistical season. The numbers said he was a top 2-3 QB in the NFL… I think people reviewing film across the league would disagree you were seeing top 2-3 QB in the NFL level play. I'm sure those surveys are going to upset some 49ers fans when they drop before next season, because I don't think there's much of a chance he'll be in the top 10 and wouldn't be all that shocked if he was out of the top 15. Is it the end all be all? No. It's subjective analysis, but it's at least coming from people who more than likely will have done significantly more work using the proper methods to actually understand what's happening out there… and it's not the same as projecting players transitioning from college to pro.

At the very least the fact that these opinions are out there, outside of ratings driven media environments, should give some pause to every fan who might think any lesser assessment of their favorite player is merely the product of engagement baiting or some rooted bias from the person giving the opinion.
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Originally posted by braap49er:

fight!!

brock is overpaid, that's just the reality. on the rook deal you are typically underpaid, in brock's case historically underpaid. then you get your 2nd contract, and that's when guys get overpaid. dude signed a $265m deal, you think he cares about anything someone says that isn't on this team

Have you actually looked at his cap hits?

It's incredibly stupid to say the guy is overpaid when he hasn't even played on the new deal yet. You have no idea how he's going to look. The deal is super team friendly and could easily look like he's underpaid in a year or two.

…but could also look like he's overpaid.

Either way making that claim right now when he's about to have a smaller cap hit than Sam Darnold is just crazy.
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Originally posted by okdkid:
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
guy signs over a quarter of a billion dollars, you don't think that's overpaid? guy had 1 great full season.

For a plumber? Yeah.

For a top NFL QB? No. Might be underpaid.

he's not a top QB tho. the guys who criticized simms for saying he's not top 10, then rattled off ten names, and not brock. he's a mid QB1. probably in the 10-20 range. top is mahomes, allen, lamar and the guys winning league mvp. nothing wrong with not being #1 at your position. most guys aren't. jennings isn't the top WR, he's still a heck of a player and a dawg. brock is the same.

He's not a top QB cuz you say so? Where did you have Jimmy ranked?

There are plenty of well respected people who have him as a top 10 QB. I'm not a big fan of QBR because they wont reveal how it's calculated but do you know who the top 5 QBs in QBR are since Purdy became a starter?

In order
Josh Allen 72.3
Lamar Jackson 71.7
Brock Purdy 70.6
Patrick Mahomes 67.1
Joe Burrow 66.8

Say what you will about Purdy but even with last season included he's listed with the unquestioned top 4 QBs in the game right now.

This is literally draft bias at work because had Trey Lance done everything exactly the way Purdy did, throw for throw, run for run…he would've been mentioned as top 10 by everyone around…if not top 5/6.

All the talk is always "he doesn't have the arm" but you can't name a single throw he made that hurt us because of his arm strength.

When the conversation is all about hypothetical scenarios when talking about his limitations then maybe his limitations are not as big of a problem as they're made to be?
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
i just don't get this line of thinking. do our own fans need to think moody is #1 at kicking? or jennings better than justin jefferson? why do we evaluate those guys as not best at their position, and brock has to be #1? ppl get emotional on QB, and they tend to see other positions for what they are.

Show me one person who claimed Brock is number 1?

Hyperbole and hypotheticals are all you have?
Originally posted by genus49:
He's not a top QB cuz you say so? Where did you have Jimmy ranked?

There are plenty of well respected people who have him as a top 10 QB. I'm not a big fan of QBR because they wont reveal how it's calculated but do you know who the top 5 QBs in QBR are since Purdy became a starter?

In order
Josh Allen 72.3
Lamar Jackson 71.7
Brock Purdy 70.6
Patrick Mahomes 67.1
Joe Burrow 66.8

Say what you will about Purdy but even with last season included he's listed with the unquestioned top 4 QBs in the game right now.

This is literally draft bias at work because had Trey Lance done everything exactly the way Purdy did, throw for throw, run for run…he would've been mentioned as top 10 by everyone around…if not top 5/6.

All the talk is always "he doesn't have the arm" but you can't name a single throw he made that hurt us because of his arm strength.

When the conversation is all about hypothetical scenarios when talking about his limitations then maybe his limitations are not as big of a problem as they're made to be?

Probably not the best way to evaluate if his arm strength limitations are a problem, lol. Especially considering I don't see anybody claiming he isn't a smart player.
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by Chance:
I've watched every QB School breakdown of Brock's play, and many QB school breakdowns of other good young QBs. I've also watched many of the breakdowns from Chase Daniels. JTO and Chase Daniels aren't the be-all-end-all of QB gurus, but it's accessible to fans like you and I. Watching the all-22, it's clear that Brock is among the best in the league at throwing with anticipation. I'm not here arguing that other QBs aren't out here throwing with anticipation, and honestly, none of us have the time to find out just how many current guys are at Brock's level, but I trust when JTO, who watches all these guys play, says that only a couple of guys in the world do it at Brock's level.

And throwing with anticipation is a window we have into Brock's ability to process the game. He simply is very f**king good at this skill and impressive enough that the guys who study his film, tell us he's among the best. I take that to the bank more than I do what Cam Newton or TJ Whosyourmama have to say, because we know there's only a few of these guys watching every dropback.

We should also be careful of looking at personnel surveys. They are as prone to problematic thinking as are anyone else. We already know that the personnel in the NFL thought Brock was a UDFA in 2022. So it's not out of the question, they are wrong when they say he's fringe 10. It's also not out of the realm of possibilities that the personnel have a stake in being proven correct in the long-term about Brock (it's not easy when the NFL collectively whiffs at a guy who is competing as an MVP in his first full season playing). And even if these arbitrary ranking and tiers of QBs were accurate enough to predict future QB play, which they aren't, 10 is pretty f**king good for a guy who still is figuring out the game. I personally think he's better than most people think, or at least he will be better, but I'm also just an idiot on the internet.

Just an FYI, I agree Brock is 'elite' when it comes to anticipatory throwing. He has to be. So is Tua. It's one skill.

It's reliant on a suite of skills tied to mental processing. You and I have obviously both watched many HOF QBs over the decades. The best QBs in history excel in this skill more than any other. Being able to read the future is a pretty f**king important QB skill and it's not just knowing where your guy is going to be and delivering an accurate ball on time (multiple skills there), it's also knowing what the defense is doing with pre and post-snap evaluations (more skills). I haven't watched enough of Tua to evaluate where he and Brock compare on anticipatory throws, or the general decision-making and processing abilities that govern this skill.

Watching all those JTO videos you would have had to hear the questioning around Brock's ability that you see from many other competent analysts. He has pointed out issues along the way as well as his positives, as any objective analyst would. I would be surprised if he ranked Brock in the top 10 quarterbacks in the NFL if he were to ever make a list.

You must confuse me with someone who does not recognize faults in Brock's game. I take it all in, and my opinion is where it is based on the information I've collated. JTO makes, what I consider, a very unbiased observation of Purdy's abilities. I do not agree that it would be surprising if he ranked Brock in the top ten. To the contrary, I think it would be surprising if he didn't. But we will probably never know, since such arbitrary rankings are inherently flawed.

As far as personnel surveys go, it was mainly an example specifically following Brock's great statistical season. The numbers said he was a top 2-3 QB in the NFL… I think people reviewing film across the league would disagree you were seeing top 2-3 QB in the NFL level play.

Specifically based on what?

I'm sure those surveys are going to upset some 49ers fans when they drop before next season, because I don't think there's much of a chance he'll be in the top 10 and wouldn't be all that shocked if he was out of the top 15. Is it the end all be all? No. It's subjective analysis, but it's at least coming from people who more than likely will have done significantly more work using the proper methods to actually understand what's happening out there… and it's not the same as projecting players transitioning from college to pro.

You're putting more faith into an unknown evaluation standard than I'm willing to do. People are people and are subject to the same issues that plague humanity in any field. This is not a science, it's, as you say, a subjective opinion--one we know is mirrored in media with incredibly problematic takes. But if this is what you want to hang your hat on, that's your prerogative. I've also watched decades of the game and know when a guy is deserving of the accolades. Brock in 2023 was absolutely one of the best three QBs in the game that season. To say otherwise is simply an opinion I will never agree with and can never be supported with objective data.


At the very least the fact that these opinions are out there, outside of ratings driven media environments, should give some pause to every fan who might think any lesser assessment of their favorite player is merely the product of engagement baiting or some rooted bias from the person giving the opinion.

Again, assuming there is no bias. One would think that personnel would have a stake in their initial opinion of Purdy being an UDFA caliber QB.

In the end, no one really knows who Purdy is and how his career will play out. I'm a fan of this team, and I'm going to believe in the best possible future until proven otherwise.
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by genus49:
He's not a top QB cuz you say so? Where did you have Jimmy ranked?

There are plenty of well respected people who have him as a top 10 QB. I'm not a big fan of QBR because they wont reveal how it's calculated but do you know who the top 5 QBs in QBR are since Purdy became a starter?

In order
Josh Allen 72.3
Lamar Jackson 71.7
Brock Purdy 70.6
Patrick Mahomes 67.1
Joe Burrow 66.8

Say what you will about Purdy but even with last season included he's listed with the unquestioned top 4 QBs in the game right now.

This is literally draft bias at work because had Trey Lance done everything exactly the way Purdy did, throw for throw, run for run…he would've been mentioned as top 10 by everyone around…if not top 5/6.

All the talk is always "he doesn't have the arm" but you can't name a single throw he made that hurt us because of his arm strength.

When the conversation is all about hypothetical scenarios when talking about his limitations then maybe his limitations are not as big of a problem as they're made to be?

Probably not the best way to evaluate if his arm strength limitations are a problem, lol. Especially considering I don't see anybody claiming he isn't a smart player.

Jimmy G had arm limitations and I can give you several examples where his arm strength hurt us on throws he attempted to make but couldn't.

Brock understands his limitations and yet is still more aggressive than Jimmy.
Originally posted by Chance:
It's reliant on a suite of skills tied to mental processing. You and I have obviously both watched many HOF QBs over the decades. The best QBs in history excel in this skill more than any other. Being able to read the future is a pretty f**king important QB skill and it's not just knowing where your guy is going to be and delivering an accurate ball on time (multiple skills there), it's also knowing what the defense is doing with pre and post-snap evaluations (more skills). I haven't watched enough of Tua to evaluate where he and Brock compare on anticipatory throws, or the general decision-making and processing abilities that govern this skill.

You must confuse me with someone who does not recognize faults in Brock's game. I take it all in, and my opinion is where it is based on the information I've collated. JTO makes, what I consider, a very unbiased observation of Purdy's abilities. I do not agree that it would be surprising if he ranked Brock in the top ten. To the contrary, I think it would be surprising if he didn't. But we will probably never know, since such arbitrary rankings are inherently flawed.

Specifically based on what?

You're putting more faith into an unknown evaluation standard than I'm willing to do. People are people and are subject to the same issues that plague humanity in any field. This is not a science, it's, as you say, a subjective opinion--one we know is mirrored in media with incredibly problematic takes. But if this is what you want to hang your hat on, that's your prerogative. I've also watched decades of the game and know when a guy is deserving of the accolades. Brock in 2023 was absolutely one of the best three QBs in the game that season. To say otherwise is simply an opinion I will never agree with and can never be supported with objective data.

Again, assuming there is no bias. One would think that personnel would have a stake in their initial opinion of Purdy being an UDFA caliber QB.

In the end, no one really knows who Purdy is and how his career will play out. I'm a fan of this team, and I'm going to believe in the best possible future until proven otherwise.

To the bolded, it's based specifically on the sample of opinion we got from that group of people following that particular season.

Again, I'm not suggesting that these surveys are the end all be all. What I'm suggesting is that they are better opinions than fans citing statistics as the backbone of their argument and they should illuminate the fact that a lesser opinion of Purdy isn't the product of bias. I pretty much flatly reject the idea that front office personnel are going to have an axe to grind in an anonymous survey due to pre-draft assessments of Purdy. Whether you think Purdy is the 7th best QB in the NFL, or between 15-20, it's a crushing indictment of those pre-draft assessments either way. There's nothing to protect there, not to mention there is simply no actual evidence to support the idea that bias is driving their opinion other than they disagree with fan opinion. I mean you had a poster suggest TJH saying Brock should make 6-7 million less per year on his deal is because Aiyuk wasnt given the ball enough in the Super Bowl, lol. Just a gigantic reach. It should be obvious the bias is going to be more present in 49ers fans.
Open Menu Search Share 49ersWebzone