QB Brock Purdy Thread

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
no playbook for 6 years.. makes sense now

Brock would've hit that one for sure.

There's clips out there of Brock missing wide open reads all the same

Yeah, no one's perfect. I still think, and probably always will, that kyles biggest frustration with Jimmy was that they see the game/play calling different.

i do think Brock would of either hit that or he would of realized he pulled the trigger on the wrong read. Jimmy seemed to always stay in his comfort zone of the field, regardless of if a bigger play was open elsewhere. Not always, but it seemed that way to me. It feels like, without me doing much hw on it, that Jimmy missed a lot of wide open plays either downfield or along the sidelines, settling for the over the middle/shallow play. Which was effective but didn't utilize the whole field or offense, for some reason

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Yes let's be objective. He destroyed the Rams and Cardinals, two awful teams, and was meh against both the Chargers and Saints.

Compare the offense effectiveness vs New Orleans in comparison to the offense vs Washington (comparable defenses). 50 more total yards and 24 more points.

The difference in rushing per game was like 40 something yards. Points was nearly a TD per game. From a rookie. He still needs to prove he an sustain it but you can't ignore the offensive jump.

So okay let's go that route. raiders are a miserable defense. Seattle is also a horrible defense (who he played 2 times) and so is AZ. Tampa Bay was missing all kinds of players on defense. They were a shell of themselves.

so we're taking about DC vs the Saints? How about Brock vs Dallas? That was not good imo

im not saying Brock was worst then Jimmy. I believe (want to believe) he's better than Jimmy and he's only scratching the surface. I'm also not gonna run around thinking he's gonna maintain that same level of play or trying to act like Jimmy wasn't playing good football before the injury. You know how I feel about him lol.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
I'm all in on Brock for the immediate future, next season. Because I want to see if he's the real deal or not.

but your whole point of needing to see a larger sample size before betting the farm on him, is the same issue I have with what the team did with Lance. Bet the future, multiple first round picks (and a fourth/third?) on a guy that you know almost nothing about and hasn't even played in a game winning drive in his career? Just a really strange move by management that lacks rationale and reason.

someone you can't even really study on film in most situations or for many plays? That's nuts to me. I'd get it if it was like one first round pick but to bet the future? Wild

Dude you could say that for just about every draft pick you move up for, especially at QB.

Go look at Mahomes, what was he winning in college? What great situations was he put in? It was all nonsense spread offenses and backyard football. He lost more games than he won. Dude threw the ball one game 88 times lol. That's not real life football. Might as well not have been a defense there.

How about Josh allen? Dude was not good his last yr at Wyoming. Watch the film there…wasn't pretty. Wasn't pretty his first 100+ passing attempts for the Bills (who went to the playoffs the year prior).

now go look at colt McCoy, AJ McCarron and Kellen Moore. Won a f**k ton of games. Had game winning drives. High pressure situations etc. where they at?

A big part of drafting (especially at QB) is based on the talent level and intangibles. What could they become with your roster and coaching staff? When was their breakout age? Is there more meat on the bone as far as development and improvement go? Are they maxed out?

for me it's not trusting all my faith into Lance. It's actually seeing the process through. You spent the picks and you haven't even tried to develop him. IMO as the season went on and the team as a whole played better…they would have won games with him all the same. He would become more confident in his reads thus making him more consistent and accurate. Rhythm in the passing game and just running an offense. You can't simulate that on the practice field with no legit pressure.

look if Brock picks up right where he left off and we're consistently playing at a high level, hell yeah I'm all in. Until then I need to see it over a larger sample size.

Comparing Mahomes and Lance is a poor comparison, because Mahomes had 1,350 attempts in college alone. Lance had approx 417 IN HIS ENTIRE LIFE when he was moved up for and drafted higher.

Lance hasn't experienced essentially a damn thing on the field. Meaning he hasn't played much ball in his life or been in very many situations for anyone to analyze to see what kind of potential he has.

it's impossible to know what kind of intangibles a player has if they've haven't played much. There are more to intangibles than being a good guy and strong work ethic. I'd argue a majority of QBs drafted are good guys with strong work ethics. A lot of Reps don't mean you have the right intangibles either - but it gives you something to a Analyze and make a decision off of.

so essentially, we said "Lance is big, strong arm, can run fast, high character, works hard - let's bet the future on him."
Not use a first rounder on him. Not take a chance on him if he falls to us. LETS BET OUR ORGANIZATIONS FUTURE ON HIM by moving up and using 3 years worth of our best draft capital, and then some.

even if Trey becomes a monster, it's a terrible management move. It would be pure luck because there's no sensible analysis that would of went into selecting him. That's not how QBs are identified. You can find those guys all over the place. Outside of the physical stuff Trey has, the rest shouldn't be major pluses - those traits like high character, work ethic etc should be base line traits everyone should have.

how does he do when the games on the line? How does he do when he throws a pick? How does he do in a 2 minute drill? How does he motivate his teammates when things aren't going that way? How does he see the field? How does he operate when the team relies on him to carry them multiple times? Etc etc

how can you know the answer to any of that with Trey? If he's been in any of their situations, it's 1-2 at most. At most. That isn't a large enough same size, in my opinion to bet the farm.

if what Trey had was a big enough sample size for you to be okay with betting the farm, then what Brock's done should be a big enough sample size to move toward with him as the starting qb, without question/competition.

its like marrying someone because they're nice, attractive, and sweet. Lol no one should get brownie points in a relationship for having those traits, you should have them if you're a decent human being. Lol it's the other things you learn about them over time if dating them that separates them from other women/men.

Originally posted by tankle104:
Yeah, no one's perfect. I still think, and probably always will, that kyles biggest frustration with Jimmy was that they see the game/play calling different.

i do think Brock would of either hit that or he would of realized he pulled the trigger on the wrong read. Jimmy seemed to always stay in his comfort zone of the field, regardless of if a bigger play was open elsewhere. Not always, but it seemed that way to me. It feels like, without me doing much hw on it, that Jimmy missed a lot of wide open plays either downfield or along the sidelines, settling for the over the middle/shallow play. Which was effective but didn't utilize the whole field or offense, for some reason

see I kinda disagree with that. The reason Jimmy was here as long as he was because he would run Kyle's offense no questions asked. He would make that pre-snap read and regards of what happens after that, that's where he was throwing the ball.

I mean I can show you a couple reads of Brock missing a wide open guy in favor of checking it down to what was probably his first read in the progression (that would be a THL question).

I do think Brock (like lance) would look high to low…Jimmy doesn't seem to do that. I think Brock kinda took a step back there as the season went on for whatever reason. Like NC said their spray charts look very similar.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
So okay let's go that route. raiders are a miserable defense. Seattle is also a horrible defense (who he played 2 times) and so is AZ. Tampa Bay was missing all kinds of players on defense. They were a shell of themselves.

so we're taking about DC vs the Saints? How about Brock vs Dallas? That was not good imo

im not saying Brock was worst then Jimmy. I believe (want to believe) he's better than Jimmy and he's only scratching the surface. I'm also not gonna run around thinking he's gonna maintain that same level of play or trying to act like Jimmy wasn't playing good football before the injury. You know how I feel about him lol.

Jimmy was playing good football. Brock played better football and it showed in the effectiveness of the offense.

I agree that we need to see Brock sustain it. But that doesn't change the sample we did have was pretty elite consistent football from both him and the offense as a whole. Offense took a step up when he came in.

Imagine with more experience Brock and the offense takes another step? That's what's exciting.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Spray Charts were identical as well. When Brock was under heavy duress like in the Cowboys playoff game, he became Jimmy as well and we only scored 19 points (something 9ers4eva always references from the Rams NFCCG loss).

The difference? The defense didn't collapse this time and closed out the win only giving up 12 points. Of course, having Dak Prescott helped that outcome too.

Agreed.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Jimmy was playing good football. Brock played better football and it showed in the effectiveness of the offense.

I agree that we need to see Brock sustain it. But that doesn't change the sample we did have was pretty elite consistent football from both him and the offense as a whole. Offense took a step up when he came in.

Imagine with more experience Brock and the offense takes another step? That's what's exciting.

I think the effectiveness of the play calling and CMC getting acclimated played a big part all the same. I feel like SF always hits a stride later in the season (depending on health). Early in the year is a different story for whatever reason.

Brock came in and made the best of his opportunities. Awesome story and his life will be forever changed regardless of what happens next. He could have also been a flash in the pan or maxed out as much as he takes another step. It's exciting and also terrifying that we could be going the Jimmy G route all over again…passing on more elite talent because we don't want to develop, in favor of safer play

We will see! I will support (like I always have) whomever is the starter. I just feel like I've seen this movie before and hated the ending.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
see I kinda disagree with that. The reason Jimmy was here as long as he was because he would run Kyle's offense no questions asked. He would make that pre-snap read and regards of what happens after that, that's where he was throwing the ball.

I mean I can show you a couple reads of Brock missing a wide open guy in favor of checking it down to what was probably his first read in the progression (that would be a THL question).

I do think Brock (like lance) would look high to low…Jimmy doesn't seem to do that. I think Brock kinda took a step back there as the season went on for whatever reason. Like NC said their spray charts look very similar.

Well yah rookies have ebbs and flows to their games. He still has to show he can adjust when teams figure out his tendencies.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
Yeah, no one's perfect. I still think, and probably always will, that kyles biggest frustration with Jimmy was that they see the game/play calling different.

i do think Brock would of either hit that or he would of realized he pulled the trigger on the wrong read. Jimmy seemed to always stay in his comfort zone of the field, regardless of if a bigger play was open elsewhere. Not always, but it seemed that way to me. It feels like, without me doing much hw on it, that Jimmy missed a lot of wide open plays either downfield or along the sidelines, settling for the over the middle/shallow play. Which was effective but didn't utilize the whole field or offense, for some reason

see I kinda disagree with that. The reason Jimmy was here as long as he was because he would run Kyle's offense no questions asked. He would make that pre-snap read and regards of what happens after that, that's where he was throwing the ball.

I mean I can show you a couple reads of Brock missing a wide open guy in favor of checking it down to what was probably his first read in the progression (that would be a THL question).

I do think Brock (like lance) would look high to low…Jimmy doesn't seem to do that. I think Brock kinda took a step back there as the season went on for whatever reason. Like NC said their spray charts look very similar.

I think we are saying the same thing but you're explaining it better. I guess I should say that Jimmy didn't go with the ball where Kyle always wanted him to, in an effort to continue to setting up future plays or exposing weaknesses in the defense. He just hit who was open in his comfort area of the field.

so he def ran kyles system but not optimally? Does that make sense? Not to how Kyle drew it up to be ran consistently.

i actually always felt like a big draw to him regarding Lance was he could teach him the habits he wanted
him to have regarding how Lance sees field and attacks a defense. That and Lance has more of an attacking mindset than jimmy.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I think the effectiveness of the play calling and CMC getting acclimated played a big part all the same. I feel like SF always hits a stride later in the season (depending on health). Early in the year is a different story for whatever reason.

Brock came in and made the best of his opportunities. Awesome story and his life will be forever changed regardless of what happens next. He could have also been a flash in the pan or maxed out as much as he takes another step. It's exciting and also terrifying that we could be going the Jimmy G route all over again…passing on more elite talent because we don't want to develop, in favor of safer play

We will see! I will support (like I always have) whomever is the starter. I just feel like I've seen this movie before and hated the ending.

I just don't see it as the same. While I need the bigger sample just like you what Brock did was way more repeatable then what either Colin or Jimmy did early on.

However I am also willing to give Trey the shot to show what he can do as well. Let best man win.

Just don't marry yourself to the idea the coaches don't want to develop a guy if they feel Brock is the better player. It's possible that Brock just IS a better player. Brady was better than a guy with far more physical ability that the Pats had a major investment in too.

Originally posted by tankle104:
I think we are saying the same thing but you're explaining it better. I guess I should say that Jimmy didn't go with the ball where Kyle always wanted him to, in an effort to continue to setting up future plays or exposing weaknesses in the defense. He just hit who was open in his comfort area of the field.

so he def ran kyles system but not optimally? Does that make sense? Not to how Kyle drew it up to be ran consistently.

i actually always felt like a big draw to him regarding Lance was he could teach him the habits he wanted
him to have regarding how Lance sees field and attacks a defense. That and Lance has more of an attacking mindset than jimmy.

Makes perfect sense and that was the main reason Kyle wanted to move on. Hell Nick Mullens ran the offense with a more aggressive mindset too he just didn't have the physical skills to consistently make the plays.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
We scored 50 touchdowns total last year (30 passing & 20 rushing).

Interesting that 12 of 16 of Jimmie's touchdowns came inside the 20 and 4 of 14 of Purdys did. Much more explosive plays. The deep ball or at least chunk plays, were much more normal when Purdy was In

I saw more than 4 RZ TDs. Overall the deep ball wasn't really more normal either. I mean we went from nothing to a little lol. It was still a ton of shorter end quick passes. A lot of those explosive plays were schemed up open receivers who got a ton of YAC.

jimmy and Brock had near identical IAY numbers and they both focused on those in breaking routes.

our open passing windows due to talent & scheme has been tops in the league

The 49ers were able to transition from Jimmy Garoppolo to Brock Purdy in part because the offense creates easy throwing windows.

No quarterback had a higher expected completion percentage than Garoppolo (69.3%) or Purdy (69.0%) in the regular season (min. 150 attempts).#FTTB pic.twitter.com/n80jMCmDfm

— Next Gen Stats (@NextGenStats) January 19, 2023

edit: saw you guys corrected the RZ td stat

And yet Shanahan is trash according to some lol.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by All22:
The Brock vs Jimmy numbers are very misleading. Brock was QB for 9 of the 10 games in the CMC era. Defenses played us completely differently after that trade. Case in point, Kittle scored all of his 11 TD's after the trade and we averaged about 160 yards on the ground.

Can't compare Jimmy + Jeff Wilson with Brock and CMC.

Yet, people have no problem comparing Brock to Trey without CMC/Mitchell, without Kittle, and with 60% of the offensive line making their first start together in the rain.

Why? Biases.

It's cuz a HOF LT, an All Pro skill guy Deebo, a 1k WR BA, KS dialing it up is more than most teams have to work with

I mean Fields was playing in the same rain
and hitting a guy we cut for a score
and a guy the Pack cut for another score
vs the #1 D in the NFL
with 3-14 talent around

what's his excuse?

Field's pass to Catboi was inaccurate and only happened because he pulled a Bo Jackson in Tecmo Bowl.

EDIT: forgive me for not including this obligatory video:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Anyone got some RZ stats on Brock? I feel like that's where he separated himself from Jimmy and shined

inside the 10: 4 passing TDs, 0 interceptions 67% completion and 1 rushing TD. 1 sack

Surprisingly jimmy was 8 tds to 1 pick in the redzone (inside the 10). 62% completion, 2 rushing touchdowns. He played a lot more games though.

Purdy was excellent at hitting tight window throws in the endzone. I think it was against the Bucs, if you go back to the touchdown pass to CMC In the redzone, the pass before the touchdown pass was a DIME to CMC in a tight tight window. CMC dropped it but it hit him right on the hands.

to me, the biggest difference between Brock and jimmy is that Brock consistently threw his guys open by dropping dimes. Jimmy doesn't do that too often. The pass to kittle for the two point conversion was a beauty

im tryin to see if I can find stats over his final 6 games to see how he performed in comparison to other starters in that stretch

Thanks. Question….Why are you doing inside the 10 though? RZ is inside the 20.

for me the biggest difference was Brock's ability to extend the play and look beyond the play call. One play I remember he scrambled around and found kittle back of the end zone. Great play. Turns out he missed his first read which wide open read on the play lol. Either way we scored, I bet kyle was a little bent out of shape still.

It was just the stat it opened up. Lol I just did the 20 and..

jimmy: 12 TDs to 1 INT, 4 sacks, 2 rushing touchdowns on 5 attempts (6 yards). 60.5% completion percentage

Brock: 4 touchdowns to 1 interception, 3 touchdowns, 1 rushing touchdown, 67% completion Percentage. Sacked 3 times

This isn't correct.
Brock was 13/17, 76.5%, the highest % of any qb with 10+ completions.
On his 17 attempts, 6 went for TDs which looks to be a top TD % as well.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/redzone-passing.htm

He was absolutely outstanding in the redzone. Showed the quick reaction of Jimmy there, but also the second chance plays that Jimmy can only dream about.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
I just don't see it as the same. While I need the bigger sample just like you what Brock did was way more repeatable then what either Colin or Jimmy did early on.

However I am also willing to give Trey the shot to show what he can do as well. Let best man win.

Just don't marry yourself to the idea the coaches don't want to develop a guy if they feel Brock is the better player. It's possible that Brock just IS a better player. Brady was better than a guy with far more physical ability that the Pats had a major investment in too.

Agree to disagree about what Jimmy did vs Brock did early on.

I mean they gotta show me they're willing to develop them. So far I haven't seen any of that. You can't talk about having so much conviction in lance blah blah blah given up years of picks and then giving him next to nothing in live reps. That's not developing imo. There's no possible way you can determine how good or bad a player is going off that. Just can't. If Brock goes on to have a ho hum 170 passing attempts this yr, you think they're gonna let him play through his rough patches? I don't. They will toss in Sam or Trey. Then what? If neither guys plays well…we're back to square one because they aren't gonna allow development to happen.

sure it's possible any player can be better than any player if given the chance to play and improve. I hate how that's the fall back for Brock vs Lance…the Brady situation. Like let's stop acting like that's the norm. Drew got 8 yrs in NE as well. It's not like he had 100 passing attempts then was just gone.