A Possible Reason for not Addressing the OLine. (The Offensive Redshirt Strategy)

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by btthepunk:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
I just find it interesting(And scary) that Kyle has all this faith in Banks replacing Laken, That he is not even giving him a safety net but yet had no faith in him at all last season. Was he just giving Banks the Trey Lance treatment, Where from the beginning he decides he is just going to sit him a year?

I think that's what it was to be honest. Shanny pretty much always good with experience. I know people want to think he was terrible in preseason but he wasn't at all had some great blocks in the Chiefs game. He got hurt and fell behind in camp and Brunskill has always played pretty well so he stuck with him instead.

I mean he went with Josh Norman and Dre Kirkpatrick (before being cut) instead of Ambry Thomas and Deommodore Lenoir. People were screaming in here about how terrible Ambry Thomas was because when he finally did play he took a while to shake off the rust. Then after a couple games he was everyone's favorite player.

Agreed, I think it is even more pronounced on offense because of how complex Kyle's system is, and the fact that it only takes 1 missed block to change a run play from a TD to a loss of yardage.

This is what scares me now. They missed the 24 hour boat to add veteran OL and now we're banking on more rookies to shore up the OL? Fans have no idea what is asked of these OL. This isn't just a zone blocking scheme here. From Mack setting the pass protection sets to every type of running play out there and the amount that is asked of them (#1 in rushing attempts) and needing to be in tip top shape, the jump from college to Kyle's offense is no joke. This is why Kyle prefers veterans esp. ones that know his system even if they aren't talented. You look at that grand list of OL over the years and only a handful are talented and several of them were holdovers.

But that's the point, the only FA that Kyle would have trusted over one of the in house guys is MAYBE Billy Turner because of the system he played in. I guess in a couple of years, they can start poaching Jets and Dolphins offensive players as well.

Originally posted by LundyLove:
Maybe. Just Maybe.

I know i'm going out on a limb here

but they like who they have on the roster including Aaron Banks

IDK, if this is a response to the OP, but that's what I am arguing. The fact that they could have kept Compton for insurance, or signed Billy Turner from GB, and didn't shows a level of confidence that the guys they have are at least capable at performing at that baseline with the potential to improve upon it.

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by btthepunk:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
I just find it interesting(And scary) that Kyle has all this faith in Banks replacing Laken, That he is not even giving him a safety net but yet had no faith in him at all last season. Was he just giving Banks the Trey Lance treatment, Where from the beginning he decides he is just going to sit him a year?

I think that's what it was to be honest. Shanny pretty much always good with experience. I know people want to think he was terrible in preseason but he wasn't at all had some great blocks in the Chiefs game. He got hurt and fell behind in camp and Brunskill has always played pretty well so he stuck with him instead.

I mean he went with Josh Norman and Dre Kirkpatrick (before being cut) instead of Ambry Thomas and Deommodore Lenoir. People were screaming in here about how terrible Ambry Thomas was because when he finally did play he took a while to shake off the rust. Then after a couple games he was everyone's favorite player.

Agreed, I think it is even more pronounced on offense because of how complex Kyle's system is, and the fact that it only takes 1 missed block to change a run play from a TD to a loss of yardage.

This is what scares me now. They missed the 24 hour boat to add veteran OL and now we're banking on more rookies to shore up the OL? Fans have no idea what is asked of these OL. This isn't just a zone blocking scheme here. From Mack setting the pass protection sets to every type of running play out there and the amount that is asked of them (#1 in rushing attempts) and needing to be in tip top shape, the jump from college to Kyle's offense is no joke. This is why Kyle prefers veterans esp. ones that know his system even if they aren't talented. You look at that grand list of OL over the years and only a handful are talented and several of them were holdovers.

But that's the point, the only FA that Kyle would have trusted over one of the in house guys is MAYBE Billy Turner because of the system he played in. I guess in a couple of years, they can start poaching Jets and Dolphins offensive players as well.

Regarding centers, Kyle shelled out money for Richberg who never had experience in Kyle's system and was acquired purely for his skillset (mobile blocker).

Originally posted by LundyLove:
Maybe. Just Maybe.

I know i'm going out on a limb here

but they like who they have on the roster including Aaron Banks

The thought of Banks and Brunskill at guard this year terrifies me.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by btthepunk:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
I just find it interesting(And scary) that Kyle has all this faith in Banks replacing Laken, That he is not even giving him a safety net but yet had no faith in him at all last season. Was he just giving Banks the Trey Lance treatment, Where from the beginning he decides he is just going to sit him a year?

I think that's what it was to be honest. Shanny pretty much always good with experience. I know people want to think he was terrible in preseason but he wasn't at all had some great blocks in the Chiefs game. He got hurt and fell behind in camp and Brunskill has always played pretty well so he stuck with him instead.

I mean he went with Josh Norman and Dre Kirkpatrick (before being cut) instead of Ambry Thomas and Deommodore Lenoir. People were screaming in here about how terrible Ambry Thomas was because when he finally did play he took a while to shake off the rust. Then after a couple games he was everyone's favorite player.

Agreed, I think it is even more pronounced on offense because of how complex Kyle's system is, and the fact that it only takes 1 missed block to change a run play from a TD to a loss of yardage.

This is what scares me now. They missed the 24 hour boat to add veteran OL and now we're banking on more rookies to shore up the OL? Fans have no idea what is asked of these OL. This isn't just a zone blocking scheme here. From Mack setting the pass protection sets to every type of running play out there and the amount that is asked of them (#1 in rushing attempts) and needing to be in tip top shape, the jump from college to Kyle's offense is no joke. This is why Kyle prefers veterans esp. ones that know his system even if they aren't talented. You look at that grand list of OL over the years and only a handful are talented and several of them were holdovers.

But that's the point, the only FA that Kyle would have trusted over one of the in house guys is MAYBE Billy Turner because of the system he played in. I guess in a couple of years, they can start poaching Jets and Dolphins offensive players as well.

Regarding centers, Kyle shelled out money for Richberg who never had experience in Kyle's system and was acquired purely for his skillset (mobile blocker).

That is a good example of him bending the mold. Richburg was a bright guy too. I'm sure that played in to it as well. It also shows how important that position is to him...as it should be.

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by LundyLove:
Maybe. Just Maybe.

I know i'm going out on a limb here

but they like who they have on the roster including Aaron Banks

The thought of Banks and Brunskill at guard this year terrifies me.

Definitely a legit concern.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by btthepunk:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
I just find it interesting(And scary) that Kyle has all this faith in Banks replacing Laken, That he is not even giving him a safety net but yet had no faith in him at all last season. Was he just giving Banks the Trey Lance treatment, Where from the beginning he decides he is just going to sit him a year?

I think that's what it was to be honest. Shanny pretty much always good with experience. I know people want to think he was terrible in preseason but he wasn't at all had some great blocks in the Chiefs game. He got hurt and fell behind in camp and Brunskill has always played pretty well so he stuck with him instead.

I mean he went with Josh Norman and Dre Kirkpatrick (before being cut) instead of Ambry Thomas and Deommodore Lenoir. People were screaming in here about how terrible Ambry Thomas was because when he finally did play he took a while to shake off the rust. Then after a couple games he was everyone's favorite player.

Agreed, I think it is even more pronounced on offense because of how complex Kyle's system is, and the fact that it only takes 1 missed block to change a run play from a TD to a loss of yardage.

This is what scares me now. They missed the 24 hour boat to add veteran OL and now we're banking on more rookies to shore up the OL? Fans have no idea what is asked of these OL. This isn't just a zone blocking scheme here. From Mack setting the pass protection sets to every type of running play out there and the amount that is asked of them (#1 in rushing attempts) and needing to be in tip top shape, the jump from college to Kyle's offense is no joke. This is why Kyle prefers veterans esp. ones that know his system even if they aren't talented. You look at that grand list of OL over the years and only a handful are talented and several of them were holdovers.

But that's the point, the only FA that Kyle would have trusted over one of the in house guys is MAYBE Billy Turner because of the system he played in. I guess in a couple of years, they can start poaching Jets and Dolphins offensive players as well.

Regarding centers, Kyle shelled out money for Richberg who never had experience in Kyle's system and was acquired purely for his skillset (mobile blocker).

I agree, however, I think that situation is more of an indictment on Kilgore than it is on Kyle's ability to trust free agents to pick up his system. Let me ask you this, why didn't Kyle keep Kilgore and Trent Brown around as insurance after replacing them?

I think Richberg fall into the Juice and McKinnon, category. No incumbent that Kyle trusts so go over pay for the guy Kyle wants the most.

Originally posted by Sickaa:
The thought of Banks and Brunskill at guard this year terrifies me.

This is why you kick out Brunskill at RT, Banks at LG, and have Moore or mckivitz battle it out at RG.

Work in progress but it has massive potential.

Originally posted by NCommand:
This is what scares me now. They missed the 24 hour boat to add veteran OL and now we're banking on more rookies to shore up the OL? Fans have no idea what is asked of these OL. This isn't just a zone blocking scheme here. From Mack setting the pass protection sets to every type of running play out there and the amount that is asked of them (#1 in rushing attempts) and needing to be in tip top shape, the jump from college to Kyle's offense is no joke. This is why Kyle prefers veterans esp. ones that know his system even if they aren't talented. You look at that grand list of OL over the years and only a handful are talented and several of them were holdovers.

You and I agree on the O line for the most part.

But maybe you can I can argue that Banks, Moore, mckivitz are ready to take over. They had year(s) in the NFL, although they lack game experience. But at least they know what to expect out of Kyle's system.

I also think Brunskill can benefit GREATLY if he kicks out to RT.

The O line will probably suck for the first part of the season. However, I think the unit can gel as the season progresses.

Originally posted by pdizo916:

Originally posted by Sickaa:
The thought of Banks and Brunskill at guard this year terrifies me.

This is why you kick out Brunskill at RT, Banks at LG, and have Moore or mckivitz battle it out at RG.

Work in progress but it has massive potential.

I agree, Brunskill should either focus completely on C or T.

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by btthepunk:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
I just find it interesting(And scary) that Kyle has all this faith in Banks replacing Laken, That he is not even giving him a safety net but yet had no faith in him at all last season. Was he just giving Banks the Trey Lance treatment, Where from the beginning he decides he is just going to sit him a year?

I think that's what it was to be honest. Shanny pretty much always good with experience. I know people want to think he was terrible in preseason but he wasn't at all had some great blocks in the Chiefs game. He got hurt and fell behind in camp and Brunskill has always played pretty well so he stuck with him instead.

I mean he went with Josh Norman and Dre Kirkpatrick (before being cut) instead of Ambry Thomas and Deommodore Lenoir. People were screaming in here about how terrible Ambry Thomas was because when he finally did play he took a while to shake off the rust. Then after a couple games he was everyone's favorite player.

Agreed, I think it is even more pronounced on offense because of how complex Kyle's system is, and the fact that it only takes 1 missed block to change a run play from a TD to a loss of yardage.

This is what scares me now. They missed the 24 hour boat to add veteran OL and now we're banking on more rookies to shore up the OL? Fans have no idea what is asked of these OL. This isn't just a zone blocking scheme here. From Mack setting the pass protection sets to every type of running play out there and the amount that is asked of them (#1 in rushing attempts) and needing to be in tip top shape, the jump from college to Kyle's offense is no joke. This is why Kyle prefers veterans esp. ones that know his system even if they aren't talented. You look at that grand list of OL over the years and only a handful are talented and several of them were holdovers.

But that's the point, the only FA that Kyle would have trusted over one of the in house guys is MAYBE Billy Turner because of the system he played in. I guess in a couple of years, they can start poaching Jets and Dolphins offensive players as well.

Regarding centers, Kyle shelled out money for Richberg who never had experience in Kyle's system and was acquired purely for his skillset (mobile blocker).

I agree, however, I think that situation is more of an indictment on Kilgore than it is on Kyle's ability to trust free agents to pick up his system. Let me ask you this, why didn't Kyle keep Kilgore and Trent Brown around as insurance after replacing them?

I think Richberg fall into the Juice and McKinnon, category. No incumbent that Kyle trusts so go over pay for the guy Kyle wants the most.

Kilgore was re-signed to an extension then traded one month later because the team acquired Richburg. The team did Kilgore a solid and traded him to a place where he can play, MIA.

Trent Brown was too slow footed to make movement run blocks. He wasn't a scheme fit.

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by pdizo916:

Originally posted by Sickaa:
The thought of Banks and Brunskill at guard this year terrifies me.

This is why you kick out Brunskill at RT, Banks at LG, and have Moore or mckivitz battle it out at RG.

Work in progress but it has massive potential.

I agree, Brunskill should either focus completely on C or T.

It's Kyle's call. But I don't know why he continues to play him at G.....

Originally posted by pdizo916:

Originally posted by NCommand:
This is what scares me now. They missed the 24 hour boat to add veteran OL and now we're banking on more rookies to shore up the OL? Fans have no idea what is asked of these OL. This isn't just a zone blocking scheme here. From Mack setting the pass protection sets to every type of running play out there and the amount that is asked of them (#1 in rushing attempts) and needing to be in tip top shape, the jump from college to Kyle's offense is no joke. This is why Kyle prefers veterans esp. ones that know his system even if they aren't talented. You look at that grand list of OL over the years and only a handful are talented and several of them were holdovers.

You and I agree on the O line for the most part.

But maybe you can I can argue that Banks, Moore, mckivitz are ready to take over. They had year(s) in the NFL, although they lack game experience. But at least they know what to expect out of Kyle's system.

I also think Brunskill can benefit GREATLY if he kicks out to RT.

The O line will probably suck for the first part of the season. However, I think the unit can gel as the season progresses.

Great point about how they are all well versed in the system already. I don't think guys like Moore, Brunskill, Skule and McKivitz are talented players. Like Fusco, Person and Compton, these guys are hard workers and are familiar with the system and can get you through a few games as depth. But they continue to prove, the longer they play, the worse they get. A guy like Banks and Tomlinson are first and high second round talents. In theory, they should get BETTER as time goes on. We did see that with Laken. But a team needs quality depth. Our depth is stronger together than our front line OL. IMHO, of course. I think we needed an infusion at the front line in talent which then makes your depth better by default.

Williams - HOF player but oft-dinged up. Who's talented behind him and learning his HOF ways?
Banks - should have the Laken Tomlinson like talent to grow over several years but will probably be a moderate player to start. Learned from Tomlinson to replace him a year in advance. 👍
Mack - final year IF he doesn't retire after getting married. And who's talented behind him and learning his HOF ways? Most important position on the OL...makes all the pass protection sets for the QB.
Brunskill - we've seen enough but Fusco, Person, Compton and Brunskill; this isn't a position of importance for Kyle. At all.
McGlinchey - first round talent with no real talent behind him for the long haul either. Career threatening injury and has played injured "for a very long time" according to MM.

I feel good about the depth stepping in which is inevitable in our system but I have lots of immediate 'and' long term concerns here.

Perhaps a guy like Moore surprises and becomes a really good starter AND continues to get better and better (not worse).

Maybe going with Banks signals a more pass happy offense with Trey taking over. We like to think that Trey means a more run dominant O, but the contrary might be true as we saw Jimmy is very limited on the passes he can complete consistently.

Like others above, i fall into the group that thinks maybe Kyle and JL are satisfied with the OLs they have and intend to play the cards they were dealt …in draft, FA, and trades. As someone who favors building the OLine first and THEN getting your FrQB, this has been disappointing. However, this isn't the Coach Walsh yrs when Eddie would just be asked to write a check. We all would like that to be the case, but it isn't. So i have just had to adapt and live with however kyle and JL do it.

That said, altho i had anticipated a vet OL in FA, we aren't done yet…i hope. Yes we will draft an OG / OG_C/ C in draft early, whether with our first pick at #61 or our 2nd pick . Most likely BPA + need will bring us an OG or Edge. Next pick we take the other…i hope.

To me that just says JL and kyle are set with their OL talent , both starters and depth. Depth i agree with, starters…well, we;ll see. It is possible there weren't any OLs in FA that either GM or HC liked for our RB game…not to mention PP. it's possible.

But if we go thru our first two draft picks and no OL…i will be stunned. Still, no one other than HC/GM KNOWS what we have at LG and RT & RG. If they are solid sure that from McK, McG, Brun, Banks and Moore they have sure fire starters at all 3 slots…ok, i understand why no OLs in FA or trades.

Still, even if satisfied that we have the talent we need on OL, we almost have to draft a starter type OG or C early on.

Lastly, JL has done well following final cuts, and he may very well bag us an OL there that fits our scheme.