The "Money Needed for Deebo and Bosa" Fallacy

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by genus49:
Good thing we don't have a boatload of free agents at the end of this season to try to bring back...

You still can't ever have to much cap space. You never know who is going to get injured early in the season and need to be replaced. What if Bosa or Deebo got hurt in camp and were lost for the season. The Niners would be in the market for a top free agent or try and make a trade. They might need that extra money. Look how many free agents were signed and how many trades were made in mid season around the league. You want to be in position to make those deals if they arise. Plus you can roll over money into the next season.

I thought my sarcasm was pretty obvious.

That's why I don't see Jimmy coming back. There's also the flip side where the team needs to see Lance play to know if they found their guy long term.

The franchise got bit somewhat giving major contracts(even if team friendly) to Kap and then Jimmy based on limited play. We need to see Trey play a good 2 years before he's eligible for a new deal to know what he's really worth on the 2nd contract.

Originally posted by Aj_hwd954:
Only once has a team moved on from a QB after winning the super bowl. It's not a cut & dry situation as some would like it to be

Here's a couple of teams that had average QBs who won the SB and retained them

Ravens in 2012
Eagles in 2017

Both Flacco and Foles actually showed out in playoffs too. The teams actually leaned on their passing to win games.

Was it the right move to retain them for their teams? Have these teams been better teams with keeping them? How many big games have these teams been to since with those QBs?

If you have that kind of mentality, we would have never moved off Joe Montana in the first place.

If the goal is to win SBs, why do people get rid of players on winning teams routinely? DBs, WRs, pass rushers and so on?
Why is the qb position so special in that regard?

Originally posted by boast:
Mike Garafalo on GMFB yesterday reiterated that it's not a given Jimmy is gone in 2022. he pointed to Rapoport's tidbit from a while back "absent a Super Bowl run, the 49ers plan..."

The @NFLGameDay Notebook with @MikeGarafolo & @TomPelissero: The future of #49ers QB Jimmy Garoppolo; How #Panthers QB Cam Newton is gearing up; #Ravens QB Lamar Jackson's week of practice; and #Browns QB Baker Mayfield has "no limitations" tonight. pic.twitter.com/D6KuSb16qz

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) November 28, 2021

On Monday, Rapoport went on Bay Area station KNBR to chat about the 49ers after Saturday's thrilling 13-10 win over the Green Bay Packers. The NFL reporter offered an update on Garoppolo and the Niners, although it sounds like not much has changed.

"I hate to sound like a broken record, but I kind of see it to where it was," Rapoport said. "Unless I'm missing something, I haven't seen anything that has changed where this is all going, which is with Trey Lance eventually being the franchise guy. Garoppolo is the starter now, and I would say not everything goes according to plan in life, in football, in everything, but this kind of has been the 49ers' plan."

The Niners are looking shrewd with how they have played this quarterback situation, and Rapoport went on to explain that he thinks they're going to get rewarded whether this playoff run ends in a Super Bowl or not.

https://omny.fm/shows/murph-mac-podcast/1-24-ian-rapoport-joins-the-murph-mac-show-to-talk

Originally posted by Ruixx:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Blake_Fever:
Right now, it looks like the 49ers have $11 million in cap space for 2022: overthecap.com/salary-cap/san-francisco-49ers/

Many people are saying "SF can't keep Jimmy because the money is needed for extensions for Deebo and Bosa."

That's just not true.

Stay with me here, because the distinction I make is important.

Deebo is under contract for 2022 and Bosa, with the 5th year option, is under contract through 2023. So, any extension can be in the form of a new money/new years extension starting in 2023 for Deebo and 2024 for Bosa.

Sure, SF can add some money to 2022, maybe specifically for Deebo since his cap hit is only $3M next year, but the vast majority will count toward future years when the cap will explode.

Yes, SF will need cap space for DJ Jones, Tomlinson and other FAs they may want to keep or sign; but saying the big money extensions for Deebo and Bosa are the driving force for shedding Jimmy's contract is just not true.

Facts, they're kinda important.

Blake_Fever

Depends how much you want to backload Deebo's contract....also it's not just about those two (even though they won't be stepping on the field without new deals) We're losing multiple starters in the secondary, losing 5 DL, got both LBers coming up on deals, Laken should get paid, right side of the line is a question mark..and you'd think they'd like to upgrade add depth regardless.

Also they don't have the high end draft capital to offset the cap restraints. Jimmy is at his peak worth in a trade, the market is bleak at QB and you're getting maybe a comp 3rd in 2023 if he leaves via FA next yr.

Also why wouldn't Jimmy want to cash in after this season? Would he want to go through another yr of Lance breathing down his neck every time he tosses a INT? I think it's best for everyone involved to get whatever you can for Jimmy and work with him and his agent to find a good team that is willing to give him an extension. Once lance was drafted the decision was pretty much made....FWIW Nick Wagoner said the other day that the sources he's talked to in SF have said they're all in on Lance and they feel even better about the pick after seeing him develop throughout the yr.

x100, right on the money. And I have to really give kudos to Kyle and Lynch because, based on how everyone was treated and what they have been saying this season, that's the goal for everyone including Jimmy and it is the reason it wasn't a massive distraction this year (I mean it was of course a talking point but Jimmy could have been making a whole lot of noise and he was all class and the team was supportive of him).

I feel like people are missing that part of it all too...if Jimmy wins a SB, he's gonna want to get paid and rightfully so. I don't think he's gonna chill on a one yr deal, hoping to look even better, not get hurt, and have to listen to fans talk about starting Lance if he does one thing wrong in 2022.

Originally posted by the_dynasty:

Originally posted by Aj_hwd954:
Only once has a team moved on from a QB after winning the super bowl. It's not a cut & dry situation as some would like it to be

Here's a couple of teams that had average QBs who won the SB and retained them

Ravens in 2012
Eagles in 2017

Both Flacco and Foles actually showed out in playoffs too. The teams actually leaned on their passing to win games.

Was it the right move to retain them for their teams? Have these teams been better teams with keeping them? How many big games have these teams been to since with those QBs?

If you have that kind of mentality, we would have never moved off Joe Montana in the first place.

If the goal is to win SBs, why do people get rid of players on winning teams routinely? DBs, WRs, pass rushers and so on?
Why is the qb position so special in that regard?

Dude if this team can move off Joe Montana they can move off Jimmy G lol. Go get top value for him, help him get an extension from the team that trades for him. Let him use the value of winning a SB to get paid (and help SF with their cap/draft capital issues).

Originally posted by Wolf_Packer_53:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by Wolf_Packer_53:
If the Niners win the Super Bowl with Jimmy, there is a 0% chance they move off of him. The ultimate goal is to win Super Bowls. You don't just discard a QB who took your team to 2 Super Bowls in the past 3 years, YOU JUST DON'T. Look how long it took the 49ers to find a good quarterback after they moved off of Jeff Garcia…

If this offseason proved anything, it's that the salary cap is essentially non existent. The fact that the Chiefs nearly signed Trent Williams in spite of all their big money players, confirms this.

It wouldn't be the first time it has been done. Anyway, none of us know exactly how good Lance looks right now. If he is developing well then it won't matter what happened this year. I like Garoppolo as a player but it really is not as though the team has ridden on his back thus far.

As regards to the cap, I also disagree. We parted company with Buckner because of the cap. We have a number of excellent young players coming up towards being paid. Your comment is just wishful thinking.

With respect to your comment, I disagree to your disagreement lol. Jimmy G is a HUGE part of the equation as to why the Niners are where they are. Does Jimmy throw bad interceptions, yes. Have they cost us a game or two, also yes. BUT, when our backs have been against the wall, particularly this year, he has come through with clutch throws and conversions to win games. Just off the top of my head I'm thinking of the Bengals game, Rams season ender, Packers regular season game (even though we lost, that wasn't on Jimmy cause he did his part), Packers playoff game.

Also, look at all the players coming to Jimmy's defense. People talk about how Jimmy needs to go so we can resign these good players to new contracts. Signing players is a two way street. They have to want to come back in order to resign. If Jimmy wins the Super Bowl this year, and we move off of him, what message does that send to these potential free agents and our locker room?? You just led us to the ultimate trophy in our sport, our ultimate goal WHILE INJURED, but it's time we go our separate ways. Good luck in your future endeavors. That tells me you are replaceable at the drop of a dime despite putting your body on the line every game gutting through injuries. Now why would you resign with a team like that when you can go to another team with more money to offer who could just as easily get to the Super Bowl next year.

I really think the reason ShanaLynch mortgaged their future on Trey is Jimmy's injuries. He's been injured a lot. He's an elite QB in my book, but what hurts him is his sub par durability. Kyle's record *without* Jimmy is really really bad. That's the problem, Jimmy's only available half the time - or so it seems. Availability is also ability. The hope is that Trey has better durability than Jimmy, and at the same time can do things Jimmy can do, and things that Jimmy cannot do.

It's not the first time this franchise has gotten rid of a super bowl winning QB. The problem with the Steve Young transition was that there was no real credible OC to take up the slack once Steve retired. Marc Trestman and Steve Mariucci weren't at the football IQ level of a Kyle Shanahan, for example. Kyle's taken two different QB's to the super bowl now, and I think he has the ability to take a 3rd, specially if that QB has the ungodly physical talents of a rocket arm, superb accuracy while on the move, mobile, and has the glimmerings (I hope) of the same kind of intangibles that Jimmy has.

About the most hilarious most unrealistic grab of all things Jimmy is folks think he will be here next year! Stop.

Enjoy the one or two games you have left. Get a DVR and record the games so you treasure forever.

He has two games left. Tops. Even if he is MVP. Wins the Chevy Corvette MVP prize. Runs for 100 yards and throws four TDs. He's gone.

Kyle drafted the QB of the future and that future is almost here.

Originally posted by 9erson3:
About the most hilarious most unrealistic grab of all things Jimmy is folks think he will be here next year! Stop.

Enjoy the one or two games you have left. Get a DVR and record the games so you treasure forever.

He has two games left. Tops. Even if he is MVP. Wins the Chevy Corvette MVP prize. Runs for 100 yards and throws four TDs. He's gone.

Kyle drafted the QB of the future and that future is almost here.

You guys have been saying this since November 2020 yet are dead wrong EVERYTIME! Not saying it's inevitable that he returns IF they win the super bowl, but saying there's a 0% chance with zero sources to back it up is pretty laughable. Owner and FO has already said they're ok with Trey sitting 2 years.

how about wait and see how the season ends

get rid of the unplaying /MEH pricey riff raff.

DEE FORD

ARIK

I hate to say it but, MOSTERT (''most hurt'')

VERRETT

NORMAN

that's a start. Too bad we traded for Lance instead of niner fan RB Najee Harris . That's just hindsight tho.

Originally posted by 9erson3:

About the most hilarious most unrealistic grab of all things Jimmy is folks think he will be here next year! Stop.

Enjoy the one or two games you have left. Get a DVR and record the games so you treasure forever.

He has two games left. Tops. Even if he is MVP. Wins the Chevy Corvette MVP prize. Runs for 100 yards and throws four TDs. He's gone.

Kyle drafted the QB of the future and that future is almost here.

It's comical.

Originally posted by TonyStarks:
get rid of the unplaying /MEH pricey riff raff.

DEE FORD

ARIK

I hate to say it but, MOSTERT (''most hurt'')

VERRETT

NORMAN

that's a start. Too bad we traded for Lance instead of niner fan RB Najee Harris . That's just hindsight tho.

Arik Armstead lol

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Dude if this team can move off Joe Montana they can move off Jimmy G lol. Go get top value for him, help him get an extension from the team that trades for him. Let him use the value of winning a SB to get paid (and help SF with their cap/draft capital issues).

Exactly.

There is also a contradicting error with the whole mentality of winning superbowls AND not wanting to improve the team. If we win the SB with Dontae Johnson as a starting CB (for example) does this mean we shouldn't draft or sign any more corners ? No, we improve the team. Same with QB position. The same thing applies. But somehow only the QB is credited with "taking the team" to the SB and only the QB must be kept.

Originally posted by TonyStarks:
get rid of the unplaying /MEH pricey riff raff.

DEE FORD

ARIK

I hate to say it but, MOSTERT (''most hurt'')

VERRETT

NORMAN

that's a start. Too bad we traded for Lance instead of niner fan RB Najee Harris . That's just hindsight tho.

bruh, do you even watch the games? lmao. Armstead has been killin it this year

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by TonyStarks:
get rid of the unplaying /MEH pricey riff raff.

DEE FORD

ARIK

I hate to say it but, MOSTERT (''most hurt'')

VERRETT

NORMAN

that's a start. Too bad we traded for Lance instead of niner fan RB Najee Harris . That's just hindsight tho.

bruh, do you even watch the games? lmao. Armstead has been killin it this year

Not so much entire year but certainly the last 5-6 games. AA's issue is the cheap money of his deal is coming to an end this year. His Cap number is $20 million or higher the next three seasons. 3-6 Sacks per year is not going to cut it for that kind of money IMO.

Originally posted by TonyStarks:
get rid of the unplaying /MEH pricey riff raff.

DEE FORD

ARIK

I hate to say it but, MOSTERT (''most hurt'')

VERRETT

NORMAN

that's a start. Too bad we traded for Lance instead of niner fan RB Najee Harris . That's just hindsight tho.

Dee will only save max $2.4M
Why AA, he's been playing great
Mostert, Verrett, & Norman aren't even signed for 2022, so no cap room saved there.

Najee Harris? I'll take a 6th rd gem in Mitchell & Trey Lance over Najee.