What will Jimmy's trade value be in the offseason?

Originally posted by the_dynasty:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
who is going to be our "back up"? bargain basement mariota type retread? or a known winner? I know, blake bortles for 4.5.

Um, they just paid Nate Sudfeld a bunch of guaranteed money that you pay a backup, not a third string QB who is on PS

Nate is getting 2 million. Hardly quality back up QB money. It would be great if he is our backup and can really succeed in that role, but quality back up QBs go for far more.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:
We made that move, though. The trade to get Lance was the move to get us over the hump because Jimmy was the guy holding us back.

but it means little if you keep this current wretched o line in tact and roll with it for this year.. we were also told they would surround trey with great talent.. the team still needs a running back. a second tight end cuz kittle is unreliable. a fast wide out. the team has been wonderful in fixing special teams but we still have jimmy. we have a wretched offensive line. gotta take care of those things. a get over the hump qb means little if you got him behind a nickle and dime o line

Our offensive line was at worst average at pass protection last year. We did just lose Tomlinson though.

Nope. Much worse in various stats. We really need to prioritize pass pro now -- for either trey or healed up jimmy -- with no real home run hitter to spice up our outside zone game anymore.

And Jimmy was bottom ten in the NFL in INT%. Does that mean he was the tenth worst QB? In the one stat that directly measures pass protection (pass block win rate), we were 14th.

What? I don't remember that. I remember looking at the collective stats and seeing us bottom ten is a few stats like pressure % and hit rate %.

When evaluating our OLine play you MUST look at % stats, because we pass the least amount of any team in the league by a mile.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by PRIMETIME21:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by PRIMETIME21:
Nobody gonna pick up that bloated contract

Aaron Rodgers highest paid year is $54 million. Jimmy G is less than half price. They can also extend him 1 more year for 2 total. Potentially lowering his cap hit. The team negotiating with him.

Lol at comparing rodgers to jimmy that's like comparing a lambo to a pinto

You missed it completely. That wasn't the point at all. The point is he is less than 1/2 price of big free agent QB'S. Hardly a big contract now a days.

1/2 the price for less than 1/2 the performance.

Rodgers has 85 TDs and 9 Ints over the last 2 seasons. During that same timespan Jimmy has 27 TDs and 17 Ints.

Jimmy G pretty routinely beats Rodgers in the playoffs.

Jimmy's beaten Rodgers in the playoffs the same number of times as Colin Kaepernick, and he's only beaten Rodgers in the playoffs one more time than Carson Palmer has.

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:
That's not true. If the saints and the colts thought all 3 were the same tier, they would have signed them by now. The fact they they are willing to negotiate on draft compensation and negotiate a possible extension, with a QB that can't throw or participate in OTAs tells you that they consider him to be in a different tier than the other ones who could be had with 1 year contracts and without draft compensation.

And yet he isn't traded for which tells me they are not worried at all about the other team getting him. The fact that they are willing to negotiate draft compensation and possible extension and nothing is happening, common sense should tell you there is disagreement there on his worth and each day that passes by they "risk" losing him to another QB needy team and they have been willing to take that risk, meaning if Winston and Mariota or whoever else as fallback options is fine by them.

Obviously, they must have a plan B besides Jimmy, but they haven't gone there yet, which means Jimmy is probably plan A as far as not being afraid to lose him. The have a high 2nd round pick, most other QB needy teams would have to give up a 1st to get him, I'm sure they are pretty confident won't happen.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:
We made that move, though. The trade to get Lance was the move to get us over the hump because Jimmy was the guy holding us back.

but it means little if you keep this current wretched o line in tact and roll with it for this year.. we were also told they would surround trey with great talent.. the team still needs a running back. a second tight end cuz kittle is unreliable. a fast wide out. the team has been wonderful in fixing special teams but we still have jimmy. we have a wretched offensive line. gotta take care of those things. a get over the hump qb means little if you got him behind a nickle and dime o line

Our offensive line was at worst average at pass protection last year. We did just lose Tomlinson though.

Nope. Much worse in various stats. We really need to prioritize pass pro now -- for either trey or healed up jimmy -- with no real home run hitter to spice up our outside zone game anymore.

And Jimmy was bottom ten in the NFL in INT%. Does that mean he was the tenth worst QB? In the one stat that directly measures pass protection (pass block win rate), we were 14th.

What? I don't remember that. I remember looking at the collective stats and seeing us bottom ten is a few stats like pressure % and hit rate %.

When evaluating our OLine play you MUST look at % stats, because we pass the least amount of any team in the league by a mile.

Here, I'll do the quick search for you:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32176833/2021-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings



And rate IS a %. This IS pass block win PERCENTAGE.

.
.

The error you are making is believing pressure rate and hit rate are the same as offensive line success or failure. Sometimes a QB is pressured because after his oline wins, he hesitates and buys the defense another opportunity to pressure him. Same thing with hit rate. The stat that measures how well your offensive line does is pass block win rate.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:
We made that move, though. The trade to get Lance was the move to get us over the hump because Jimmy was the guy holding us back.

but it means little if you keep this current wretched o line in tact and roll with it for this year.. we were also told they would surround trey with great talent.. the team still needs a running back. a second tight end cuz kittle is unreliable. a fast wide out. the team has been wonderful in fixing special teams but we still have jimmy. we have a wretched offensive line. gotta take care of those things. a get over the hump qb means little if you got him behind a nickle and dime o line

Our offensive line was at worst average at pass protection last year. We did just lose Tomlinson though.

Nope. Much worse in various stats. We really need to prioritize pass pro now -- for either trey or healed up jimmy -- with no real home run hitter to spice up our outside zone game anymore.

And Jimmy was bottom ten in the NFL in INT%. Does that mean he was the tenth worst QB? In the one stat that directly measures pass protection (pass block win rate), we were 14th.

What? I don't remember that. I remember looking at the collective stats and seeing us bottom ten is a few stats like pressure % and hit rate %.

When evaluating our OLine play you MUST look at % stats, because we pass the least amount of any team in the league by a mile.

Here, I'll do the quick search for you:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32176833/2021-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings



And rate IS a %. This IS pass block win PERCENTAGE.

.
.

The error you are making is believing pressure rate and hit rate are the same as offensive line success or failure. Sometimes a QB is pressured because after his oline wins, he hesitates and buys the defense another opportunity to pressure him. Same thing with hit rate. The stat that measures how well your offensive line does is pass block win rate.

Dont look at espn for s**t with their magic potion exotic stats. look at pfr. I'll check it out later. I think you'll be disappointed, but if you're right then i will be surprised. I will post it either way.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Nope. Much worse in various stats. We really need to prioritize pass pro now -- for either trey or healed up jimmy -- with no real home run hitter to spice up our outside zone game anymore.

We aren't even a full week into FA and we still have the draft. We aren't done adding talent.

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49ers81:
He'll be with the team until he isn't. They'll get something for him or they won't. Until either of those things happen everything else is just noise.

Haha. Awesome. Did you get that from a source?

Booger McFarland

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:
We made that move, though. The trade to get Lance was the move to get us over the hump because Jimmy was the guy holding us back.

but it means little if you keep this current wretched o line in tact and roll with it for this year.. we were also told they would surround trey with great talent.. the team still needs a running back. a second tight end cuz kittle is unreliable. a fast wide out. the team has been wonderful in fixing special teams but we still have jimmy. we have a wretched offensive line. gotta take care of those things. a get over the hump qb means little if you got him behind a nickle and dime o line

Our offensive line was at worst average at pass protection last year. We did just lose Tomlinson though.

Nope. Much worse in various stats. We really need to prioritize pass pro now -- for either trey or healed up jimmy -- with no real home run hitter to spice up our outside zone game anymore.

And Jimmy was bottom ten in the NFL in INT%. Does that mean he was the tenth worst QB? In the one stat that directly measures pass protection (pass block win rate), we were 14th.

What? I don't remember that. I remember looking at the collective stats and seeing us bottom ten is a few stats like pressure % and hit rate %.

When evaluating our OLine play you MUST look at % stats, because we pass the least amount of any team in the league by a mile.

Here, I'll do the quick search for you:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32176833/2021-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings



And rate IS a %. This IS pass block win PERCENTAGE.

.
.

The error you are making is believing pressure rate and hit rate are the same as offensive line success or failure. Sometimes a QB is pressured because after his oline wins, he hesitates and buys the defense another opportunity to pressure him. Same thing with hit rate. The stat that measures how well your offensive line does is pass block win rate.

Dont look at espn for s**t with their magic potion exotic stats. look at pfr. I'll check it out later. I think you'll be disappointed, but if you're right then i will be surprised. I will post it either way.

I think the only criteria you have for whether or not a stat or stat source is trustworthy is if it makes Jimmy look good, hence why you reject intended air yards per attempt but count "wins" as a QB stat.

And if you mean Pro Football Focus, they have our line ranked third overall. As of October, PFF had our pass blocking efficiency as 10th in the league. If PFF is your source, you'd have to be arguing that the 49ers pass protection nose-dived mid-season. Nevertheless, that stat by its very nature cannot only be considered an offensive line stat, because here is the formula: 1 – (Sacks + Hits) / (2) + (Hurries) / (2) / (Total Pass-Block Snaps) * 100. Sacks, hits, and sometimes hurries can all be because of the QB. Hurries are more likely to be because of the offensive line, my intuition tells me. But the other two? It could go either way.

I am not aware of any direct offensive line aggregate stats from Pro Football Reference.

But anyway, as I said earlier, a lot of stats people believe talk about offensive line performance don't actually necessarily illuminate on that. Again, a QB may be facing pressure because he was too eager to leave the pocket and moved into pressure. Or there may have been a blitz. Or there may have been success on second chance pass rushes because the QB failed to throw the ball on time (for example, Trey was pressured out of the pocket against the Texans because he failed to throw the slant on the left side, near the end zone. He then evaded that pressure, got outside the pocket, and threw a great pass on the run. Did the offensive line mess up there? No, of course not. Trey messed up. But that still counts as a pressure by some definitions).

Lol im referring to pff. Now that's funny. That made me laugh. LOL.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Anyone who says Jimmy got us to the NFC Championship game this year has as much credibility as a nut in a squirrel's cheeks. Jimmy almost gave the game away against Dallas, trying his hardest to steal defeat from the jaws of victory, and the Green Bay Packers' special teams handed us a trip to the NFCCG on a silver platter. The degree of cognitive dissonance required to say Jimmy "took" us there is just astounding.

While this isn't completely wrong, the team made it to the NFCCF. Moreover, Shanahan still decided to go with a physically compromised Jimmy over Trey. In all 3 playoff games. And Rodgers didn't play up to his née salary in the Divisional round.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:
We made that move, though. The trade to get Lance was the move to get us over the hump because Jimmy was the guy holding us back.

but it means little if you keep this current wretched o line in tact and roll with it for this year.. we were also told they would surround trey with great talent.. the team still needs a running back. a second tight end cuz kittle is unreliable. a fast wide out. the team has been wonderful in fixing special teams but we still have jimmy. we have a wretched offensive line. gotta take care of those things. a get over the hump qb means little if you got him behind a nickle and dime o line

Our offensive line was at worst average at pass protection last year. We did just lose Tomlinson though.

Nope. Much worse in various stats. We really need to prioritize pass pro now -- for either trey or healed up jimmy -- with no real home run hitter to spice up our outside zone game anymore.

And Jimmy was bottom ten in the NFL in INT%. Does that mean he was the tenth worst QB? In the one stat that directly measures pass protection (pass block win rate), we were 14th.

What? I don't remember that. I remember looking at the collective stats and seeing us bottom ten is a few stats like pressure % and hit rate %.

When evaluating our OLine play you MUST look at % stats, because we pass the least amount of any team in the league by a mile.

Here, I'll do the quick search for you:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32176833/2021-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings



And rate IS a %. This IS pass block win PERCENTAGE.

.
.

The error you are making is believing pressure rate and hit rate are the same as offensive line success or failure. Sometimes a QB is pressured because after his oline wins, he hesitates and buys the defense another opportunity to pressure him. Same thing with hit rate. The stat that measures how well your offensive line does is pass block win rate.

Dont look at espn for s**t with their magic potion exotic stats. look at pfr. I'll check it out later. I think you'll be disappointed, but if you're right then i will be surprised. I will post it either way.

Lol

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by TD49ers:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by TD49ers:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by TD49ers:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by TD49ers:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by TD49ers:
Why would anyone want him at 26 million. As an outsider would you ?.....
Everyone points to the record but they tend to forget that this team is run first and at times is dominant in the running game. The playoff run in 2019 tells the tale. Can you had the ball off? And when he is called upon he s**ts the bed. He is average at best and the record is more a product of the team than JG and its not even an agrument. He is over rated by many. Just put him on a team that expect him to win games for them he will show his true colors. Hell, Pitt decide to go with Mitch. What does that say to you.

That is why we might get a Snickers bar for him in a trade. If we can get more its gravy.

The hard part about evaluating Jimmy is we don't know what percentage of his success is due to the system he plays in and the plays drawn up for him, and how much transferable to any system regardless of play and play caller.

Here is what we do know:

1. By now defenses know that he will be throwing the ball primarily over the middle in short to intermediate passes, and have surely game planned for it, and seem to be still unable to stop it for the most part.

2. Shanahan often calls 2 plays in the huddle, and allows the QB to check to one or the other. If you go back and watch his games, look for plays where he say "can" before the play, that means he switched to the 2nd play. If the play was successful after, that usually means he switched to the right play, what's even more impressive, is when he switches to a successful run play, which means, he is willing to give up his own personal glory and stats for team success. FWIW, there were rumors of Wentz ignoring what the coaches told him to do, and trying to do it his own way.

3. The players all go to bat for him publicly, and there has not even been 1 off the record report of anyone who is frustrated with him or his play. There also has been no off the record reports of teammates that wanted Trey to get more game reps.

4. Finally, Shanahan, told us by his actions that he believed a big percentage of the team success was due to Jimmy's play and not necessarily just his play calling. And Lynch is also telling us what he believes by playing hardball with other teams and not settling for reportedly just 1 2nd round pick.

It is action not words that matter. Try and rationalize the situation all you want, the 49ers actions have said loud and clear JG is not a QB they believe is good enoigh.

So far, GMs looking for a QB are not pirsuing a trade for JG because beyond a Snickers bar, they dont want to give up draft capital and salary cap tesourves for a QB that cant even play average without a major support cast.

Like I said, I agree that their actions say they believe Jimmy is not a top 5-10 QB, or at the very least that they can't win with him, if they have to spend more that 27 Mil on his salary.

However, you can't have it both ways. If they thought he was a bad as most fans do, they would have taken the first offer they got for him.

And like I said, the fact that the Colts and the Saints haven't signed Mariota or Winston means there actions are telling us that they believe his is a better option as well, as long as it is at the right price.

If the Saints and Colts were enamored with JG and as good as people think he would have been traded by now.

We really dont know what the 49ers stance is I am not aware of any deal that was turned down by the 48ers so the benchmark is pure speculation. To a degree the market will dictate the value not the 49ers Why wouldnt the 49ers try and maximize the value but if they want to trade him they will need to bend if they want to move on. Snickers really satisfies.

You can't have it both ways, if they liked Winston and Mariota more than Jimmy, they would have signed them by now as well. Especially the Colts because they weren't waiting on Watson.

I guess I would have to agree. JG is in the same Tier as Mariota and Winston.

If they were the same tier, they would have signed them by now as well for no draft compensation, and less than $27 M

If JG was any more and that good, this thread would have been closed by now.

That's not true. If the saints and the colts thought all 3 were the same tier, they would have signed them by now. The fact they they are willing to negotiate on draft compensation and negotiate a possible extension, with a QB that can't throw or participate in OTAs tells you that they consider him to be in a different tier than the other ones who could be had with 1 year contracts and without draft compensation.

That's kinda where i am.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Nobody wants to trade for a QB in a shoulder harness.

Yet.

A reread of the last 5 days shouts "Paciencia"…We are a group of 9er fans who all want something done yesterday, and who refuse to be patient.

In very simple terms, why on earth is there such need for doing something…anything….now? Jimmy is probably 12-16 weeks from throwing for an interested team.. Any team that wants him would be more than foolish to trade for him before knowing how he throws post op.

What on earth is so difficult about that to understand? If we changed places with the team that is interested, we'd be doing the same thing…due diligence.

And Jimmy didn't screw us with his surgery date. It was ALWAYs needed and no team would have taken him until knowing results of post op result.

Please, just hurry up and WAIT, and Jimmy's next home will be revealed. But right now everyone, like it or not, just has to wait. Nobody buys a wounded horse, you wait for it to heal up….and then see how it runs. That's where we are with JG, and whoever is interested, needs to be sure he can make all the throws…or at least , a majority of them.

My 2 cents is that this is all due to medical considerations and nothing more than that. The discussion with Colts could very well have happened tho NO ONE has any proof one way or the other. Logic says that would be a reasonable thing to have happened. So wait, already.

the main thing we are putting off is just re-signing Deebo and Nick B. They surely can wait another 3-4 mos. They are still getting enough money at present to pay for meals.

Could JG and F.O have had any discussion re: Jimmy's salary if he remains as a backup? Maybe. But for now, our tight lipped F O is doing its job and saying nothing which to me is what an F. O should be doing…saying nothing.