Kyle Shanahan - QB Guru / Developer

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by ninerfan818:

This may or not deserve its own thread but I am curious as to "Where" Kyle developed a QB and made said QB better than before he got there?

I don't see a guy that is developing QB's and making them better. If anything Jimmy has regressed and it looked like Kyle drafted YAC guys because he knew that was the only way he could win with Jimmy.

I see zero evidence of QB improvement over the years. I see nothing but smoke and mirrors trying to compensate for lack of a quality QB.

That said, we are supposed to trust this guy with Trey? Kyle got him injured in his very first start. He totally mis-used him in that game. I want to know what proof exists that proves Shanahan is a QB Guru.

Not bashing, not a fan either anymore. To me there is a lot of unknown, except that familiar last name. 2019 is looking more of a fluke to me.

I guess we can say he's never developed any QB. He's had quick stints as OC (2 years in HOU, 2 in ATL, 1 in CLE) outside of his four year stint in WAS. In WAS he had an old McNabb, then Grossman, then two years of RG3. Because of this, I think a better question to pose is how have his QBs done once he left?

I don't agree that he misused Lance in the ARI game. Misusing Lance would be asking him to drop back to pass 30 times a game with Chandler Jones and Watt coming off the edges. At this point in his career, Lance is not a polished dropback passer. He is comfortable running with the ball and that's why that ARI game was called the way it was. It wasn't pretty but neither is having Lance dropback with the deer in the headlights look and getting pressured into bad throws.

I agree with most of what you said. It makes sense that Kyle wasn't comfortable with him dropping back 30 times against a tough defense, but that doesn't really explain why there were so many designed QB runs while Elijah Mitchell only had 9 carries. That bothered me, especially on the runs where Lance basically just ran up the middle.

It was s**t game planning and play calling for sure.

Originally posted by thl408:
I guess we can say he's never developed any QB. He's had quick stints as OC (2 years in HOU, 2 in ATL, 1 in CLE) outside of his four year stint in WAS. In WAS he had an old McNabb, then Grossman, then two years of RG3. Because of this, I think a better question to pose is how have his QBs done once he left?

I don't agree that he misused Lance in the ARI game. Misusing Lance would be asking him to drop back to pass 30 times a game with Chandler Jones and Watt coming off the edges. At this point in his career, Lance is not a polished dropback passer. He is comfortable running with the ball and that's why that ARI game was called the way it was. It wasn't pretty but neither is having Lance dropback with the deer in the headlights look and getting pressured into bad throws.

this

Originally posted by ninerfan818:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
He's more of a RB guru than he is a QB guru

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
He's more of a RB guru than he is a QB guru

More like a running scheme guru. He can make a lot of rbs look great. Except Joe Williams and trey sermon apparently.

Lol, there is a lot the that. Cast off RB's seem to flourish with Kyle. I don't know what happened to Sermon?

I am starting to believe Sermon and Banks were taken so we could run the ball inside better with Trey at QB next year. We obviously will be running more read options and designed QB runs next year. Having a RB that can punish a defense for not crashing down will be pivotal with Trey. At least that's my last gasp of hope that this draft wasn't a complete and utter failure.

Which coach or coaches in the NFL would you guys consider to be a QB Guru?

Andy Reid?

Originally posted by glorydayz:
Which coach or coaches in the NFL would you guys consider to be a QB Guru?

Andy Reid?

Hard to say as when a coach develops a QB he usually keeps his job and sticks with 1 QB for 10+ years

Originally posted by glorydayz:
Which coach or coaches in the NFL would you guys consider to be a QB Guru?

Andy Reid?

Former 49er and current QB coach for BUF, Ken Dorsey. How else do we explain Josh Allen going from meh to wow over the course of a year?

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by glorydayz:
Which coach or coaches in the NFL would you guys consider to be a QB Guru?

Andy Reid?

Former 49er and current QB coach for BUF, Ken Dorsey. How else do we explain Josh Allen going from meh to wow over the course of a year?

Ken Dorsey to Brandon Lloyd > Joe to Jerry

He did a great job with Jimmy and beathard.

Norv Turner has a very simple offense, but man, his in game play calling and understanding flow and matchups is one of the best.

Been a long time since we have had an OC that understands the value of in game flow and tempo over play design.

Shanahan can have success when he finds a RB that can excel in his OZ and at the same time he has a veteran QB. His dad did it with Elway in Denver and Kyle did it with Schaub in Houston and Ryan in Atlanta but he hasn´t been able of doing it here because Garoppolo just sucks.

The Shanahans aren´t QB-developers because their entire offense works around the running game and play-action while the QB never is the main component of the system and that´s why I don´t trust this guy to work with Trey. I mean, Kyle had one good year with RGIII and then he got injured that same year and that was it.

Trey needs a guy with a track of working and developing mobile QB´s making the QB the key of the offense.

Matt Ryan was already a good quarterback when Kyle was offensive coordinator for Atlanta

And I personally don't count anything else if he was working with his father Mike Shanahan because it's obvious who had the most influence in that regard

So I personally I don't think there is anyone he's developed solely on his own

.

Originally posted by genus49:
Don't remember if it was you that brought this up in the Lance thread but I'll say this once again.

The whole QB development thing isn't really a thing these days with the limited workouts and longer season/offseason.

What really helps a QB develop into a good player are the following things

1. Their own hard work and dedication to improving their mechanics, tape study, etc. This is done mostly during the offseason when they're away from the team.

2. The offense they're in. Having a scheme which fits their strengths, a scheme which makes things easier for them and having players to help and protect said QB.

Kyle Shanahan can do #2 very well. Few other coaches can make things easier for their guys than Shanahan.

He cannot do #1, no HC can. That is about the player putting in the time and effort while also having the ability to put those things into the games.

Did people forget that Shanahan had Nick friggin Mullens putting up numbers similar to Pat Mahomes? Eventually he can only do so much, it's on the player to take the steps forward on his own. He can't teach Garoppolo to make more accurate passes, he can't teach him to stay calm in the pocket when things start to break down and he certainly can't somehow make his arm stronger.

Agree. he did a great job with Nick.

If you look at the old 49er offenses. They never got untracked until they got Wendell Tyler, Roger Craig, and ricky Watters. So just as important to a developing QBs is developing RBs.

Originally posted by Monsterniner:
Shanahan can have success when he finds a RB that can excel in his OZ and at the same time he has a veteran QB. His dad did it with Elway in Denver and Kyle did it with Schaub in Houston and Ryan in Atlanta but he hasn´t been able of doing it here because Garoppolo just sucks.

The Shanahans aren´t QB-developers because their entire offense works around the running game and play-action while the QB never is the main component of the system and that´s why I don´t trust this guy to work with Trey. I mean, Kyle had one good year with RGIII and then he got injured that same year and that was it.

Trey needs a guy with a track of working and developing mobile QB´s making the QB the key of the offense.

But that's why Lance is the perfect fit. He's safe and athletic which is what Elway was at that time.

Kyle doesn't want a gunslinger. He wants a QB that can play action or get positive yards by running when needed.

Originally posted by glorydayz:
Which coach or coaches in the NFL would you guys consider to be a QB Guru?

Andy Reid?

Sean Payton, and Kliff Kingsbury.