2021 49ers off season scenarios

Originally posted by NYniner85:

I happen to think all 4 top QBs are pretty legit and SF could benefit tremendously from getting a young QB who's on a rookie contract.

I don't care about picks when it comes to getting the QB you value.

We all know this roster is much better than their record. We will be drafting early because of injuries. That won't happen again. Therefore, it will be cheaper to move up and get a 10+ year QB now than to hope one of the top 3/4 drops to 10/12, which they won't. Spend the picks. Get you guy and go play. It will continue to be more of a QB dependent league in the future. Get a good one, restructure Jimmy, then go looking for OL help.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

I happen to think all 4 top QBs are pretty legit and SF could benefit tremendously from getting a young QB who's on a rookie contract.

I don't care about picks when it comes to getting the QB you value.

We all know this roster is much better than their record. We will be drafting early because of injuries. That won't happen again. Therefore, it will be cheaper to move up and get a 10+ year QB now than to hope one of the top 3/4 drops to 10/12, which they won't. Spend the picks. Get you guy and go play. It will continue to be more of a QB dependent league in the future. Get a good one, restructure Jimmy, then go looking for OL help.

Yeah use this lost season...upgrade the QB position. Long-term is what matters right now IMO.

I'm not even down with restructuring Jimmy at this point. You're basically forcing him to be here thru 2022 and have a massive cap hit in 2022 ...With the amount of injuries and avg play he's throwing out there, they should discuss a pay cut (with incentives) if not see ya later.

I would hope the FO will evaluate the year in light of everything they've had to deal with:

Injuries
Lingering Super Bowl disappointment (that's real emotional weight!)
COVID
Injuries
Injuries
FA/Salary Cap
Injuries

What a crapstorm of a year.

Keep Jimmy G (pay cut and short leash)
Draft potential FQB
CB situation - Draft early-mid-rounder or FA? (Will help tremendously to get Bosa back whatever angle they attack it)
OL (surely they can't ignore it this time?)

Looking forward to the bounce-back in 2021. Law of averages alone will make this a playoff team.

Originally posted by illinois9er:
It's BS to want Jimmy and his contract gone?

Hell naw

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

I happen to think all 4 top QBs are pretty legit and SF could benefit tremendously from getting a young QB who's on a rookie contract.

I don't care about picks when it comes to getting the QB you value.

We all know this roster is much better than their record. We will be drafting early because of injuries. That won't happen again. Therefore, it will be cheaper to move up and get a 10+ year QB now than to hope one of the top 3/4 drops to 10/12, which they won't. Spend the picks. Get you guy and go play. It will continue to be more of a QB dependent league in the future. Get a good one, restructure Jimmy, then go looking for OL help.

Yeah use this lost season...upgrade the QB position. Long-term is what matters right now IMO.

I'm not even down with restructuring Jimmy at this point. You're basically forcing him to be here thru 2022 and have a massive cap hit in 2022 ...With the amount of injuries and avg play he's throwing out there, they should discuss a pay cut (with incentives) if not see ya later.

You speaking the gospel today bro. Look how bad the restructures of Richburg and Ford look. these guys can't stay on the field. Even a restructure is a waste of the cap.

I haven't left this forum, I love reading the posts on this debate. It's not about hating on JG. It's all about is it time to upgrade the position when you're in a good situation to do so.
My opinion of course, playing it 'safe' would be sticking with JG, maybe/probably getting to playoffs and hoping he can outplay much better QBs. Yes, they went to the SB last year, but with a near perfect defensive performance. If Kittle doesn't get that win vs the Saints, I'm not sure they make the SB. It's such a fine line with all the good teams now.
Drafting one of the top QBs is risky, worse case scenario is that he busts. More likely scenario is that he is at least as good as JG and you save on a rookie contract. Best case is that he become elite. If they can find a team to trade with, just do it.

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by fip24:
Assuming Saleh leaves, my dream offseason...
- Dan Quinn DC
-Trade Jimmy G and our 5th to NE for their 3rd
-Trade our 2nd in 2021 and 2022 to Det for Stafford (this would save 6.4m in cap space)
- cut Ford with a post June 1 designation (saves roughly 9m in 2021 cap)
-Richburg reduces in salary by 4m -would still leave him with a 3.85m base (saves 4m in cap space)
-cut Gould, Benjamin, Street, Brendel and Nzeocha ( save 8.35m)
Niners would now have around 48.7 m in cap space
- Sign Trent Williams 5 years 90m. 15m sign on bonus Salaries of 5m, 20m,17m, 16m & 17m. 8m cap hit (40.7m left)
- Sign Juice 4 year 20m . 6m sign bonus. Salaries of 1.5m, 4.5m, 4m & 3m. 3m cap hit in 2021 (37.7m left)
- Sign Mosely 3 year 12 m. 3m sign on salaries of 3m each year 4m cap hit in 2021 (33.7m left)
- Sign Solly Thomas and Ronald Blair each to 1 yr, 2m deals 29.7m left
-Sign Kevin Givens to 2 year 5m deal 1m to sign and 2m each year 27.2 left
- Sign Kerry Hyder to 3 year 12m deal 4m to sign w salaries of 1.5m, 2.5m & 4.m 2.8m cap hit (24.6m left)
-Sign Mike Hilton to play the slot 4 years 35m 10m to sign w salaries of 5m, 8m, 6m & 6m 7.25m cap hit ( 17.35m left)
- Sign Nick Mullins 1 ys 2.35m 15m
- 2m for a kicker 13m left
- Resign Fred Warner 5 years 77m 20m to sign salary of 2m, 10m, 16m , 13m & 16m 6m cap hit 7m in cap space left

Draft
Rd1 Patrick Surtain CB Alabama
Rd 3 (from Patriots) Trey Smith OG Tennessee
Rd 3 (Saleh) Eric Stokes CB Georgia
Rd 4- Alec Lindstrom C BC

Other restructuring would need to take place to round out the roster, but I think this would be an ideal offseason

1. I prefer Raheem Morris or Demeco Ryans as DC.

2. I'm ok with dealing Jimmy.

3. Too much for Stafford, mid rounder at most.

4. As some have said June 1 Dee won't help right away, his entire cap number stays on the books for the entire offseason until June 2nd.

5. I can see Richburg reducing his salary, he has no leverage. same as Dee.

6. Cutting those players don't really save that much, we only have 33 players signed, about $8.139M after factoring in top 51 salaries, plus Gould's option needs to be decided by either this weekend or next weekend, I see him being here.

7. I also have Trent at $18M a yr.

8. Fair offer for Juice IMO.

9. Don't need to extend Moseley, he's a RFA, he'll get the 2nd rd tender, which should be around $3.422M, but would be wise to lock him up long term like we did with Mostert, who I can see being extended.

10. Yes to Blair, no to Thomas.

11. Givens is signed for 2021 at just $780K, we won't extend him, he won't be a UFA until I think 2024, RFA in 2023, ERFA in 2022. Unless it's super cheap, no reason to extend him yet.

12. Too cheap for Hyder, he'll get in the $6M-$10M a yr range IMO, I initially thought it wouldn't happen, but looking at deals in the past, teams overpay for EDGE help, hoping he sticks around, might depend on if Kourcerk stays. Same can be said for Juice, if Bobby Turner stays.

13. idk much about Hilton, so I can't make a statement, but $8.75M a yr for a Slot WR is too much IMO, I'd rather stick with Bourne at the Slot(Big Slot) or maybe Hurd or Jennings prove themselves.

14. Mullens will get the 2nd rd tender of $3.422M IMO.

15. Like I said, I see Gould being here in 2021.

16. WAY WAY too low for Warner, he's a better player than CJ Mosley IMO, and he's getting $18M a yr, so Warner should get the same, if not more.

17. I can't comment on the draft, I stopped researching prospects a few years back, too much time consuming.

Other Notes, expect Jeff Wilson and Marcell Harris to get tendered, idk what Wilson gets, but Harris should get the original rd level of $2.24M. Brunskill will get tendered as a ERFA, only costs $850K. I think K'Waun and Verrett are must signs, if we let both, and Sherman go, our CBs are depleted badly. I think the 49ers re-sign Garland also. 1yr $2M, Also I see the 49ers re-signing TE Ross Dwelley, TE Jordan Reed, and LS Taybor Pepper to cheap deals, I can see Pepper getting a 4yr deal with minimum salaries, and only a small signing bonus, maybe $200K.

NVM on the Mike Hilton thing, thought he was a WR for some reason, I'd prefer to keep K'Waun at the Slot, he's top 2 at the Slot IMO, $8M a yr for K'Waun would be a great deal.

Salary cap is going down next year by 11%. It will be interesting to see what happens. Obviously, overall NFL payroll has to be less than it was in 2020. Some things that could happen

1) Vets get cut to save cap space (obvious)

2) Draft picks are at a premium because of the cap savings of rookie contracts.
This might even affect the pick value chart would teams rather trade down to pick up more players at lower cap cost? Benefits the 49ers if they're looking to move up?

3) Only the top FAs get premium deals
Teams won't throw money around on mediocre players. Every signing will carry heavy scrutiny. Players with risk or age (Sherman) either get lower deals or have to take incentive-laden deals.

4) Young, mediocre players might be tempted to take team-friendly backloaded deals hoping to score money once the cap goes up again. This is riskier for the player (injury) but great for teams.

5) Players betting on themselves will take 1-year or 2-year deals hoping the salary cap goes up later. Of course, this is risky in case of injury.

What do you guys think?

Most of this all depends on where we ultimately end up picking. We should be in the 6-9 range, so we "SHOULD" be able to get one of Lance or Wilson without trading up. Here's to hoping we lose the last 2 games, and slide into that 6-8 range. If we end up getting Lance, then we need to trade Jimmy G back to the Patriots for a 3rd, and use that cap savings to resign T. Williams at LT, and Juice at FB.
We need Richburg+Ford to be able to pass a physical, so we can cut them, and use their savings to bring back Hyder+Verrett. Then with our rollover money from this year, along with the roughly 18 million we already had under the tax, we can apply that to retaining guys like Mosely+Brunskill+Givens, basically all our restricted FA's, and have money left for our draft pool.
I am perfectly fine rolling Lance out there as QB1 day 1, Shanahan can ease the playbook on him during the season, and rely on the run game early.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Ok, peace out. I've posted so much crap. You wanna know why so many have left this forum? Because of all this BS. Have a nice day.

Oh chill. Not everyone is gonna agree with ya every time. I still value you as a poster in here.

But Imo you've posted nothing of substance in regards to the cap outside of "what ifs" I simply don't agree with you on this topic, that's all.

It's not like I dislike you or really anyone here, there are differences...which end of the day is fine. It shouldn't be Kumbaya and we all need to love Jimmy and blame everything else.

I agree with Jonny. What is the point of crapping on the team you root for? You won't affect any type of change. The front office doesn't read this board, fans do. All you do is end up looking like a jerk and turning people off from logging onto the forum.

My quick offseason for 2021.

Re-Signings/Extensions:

QB Nick Mullens 1yr RFA 2nd Rd Tender
RB Raheem Mostert 4yr deal worth $5M a yr ($11.375M GTD, $4.645M, $3M, $3M, $4M, $5M cap numbers reason for 5 years is deal would run from 2021-2025)
RB Jeff Wilson Jr. 1yr RFA 2nd Rd Tender
FB Kyle Juszyzck 4-5yr deal worth $5.25M a yr ($10M GTD, $4.5M, $3.5M, $6.5M, $6.5M, $5.25M cap numbers)
WR Kendrick Bourne 2yr $2.5M a yr deal ($500K GTD, $3M, $2M cap numbers)
TE Jordan Reed 1yr $1.075M
TE Ross Dwelley 1yr $920K
C Ben Garland 1yr $2M
C/RG Daniel Brunskill 1yr ERFA Tender of $850K
LT Trent Williams 5yr deal worth $18M a yr ($41.95M GTD, $5.5M, $5.5M, $22.5M, $26.5M, $30M cap numbers)
DE Kerry Hyder Jr. 3-5yr deal worth $8M a yr ($10.05M GTD, $4M, $6M, $8M, $10M, $12M cap numbers)
DE Ronald Blair III 1yr $2M deal
MLB Fred Warner 5yr deal worth $18M a yr ($41.222M GTD, $6.6M, $5.5M, $10.5M, $19M, $27M, $25M cap numbers, reason for 6 yrs is the deal would run from 2021-2026)
CB K'Waun Williams 3-5yr deal worth $8M a yr ($12.65M GTD, $7.5M, $3.5M, $10.5M, $10.5M, $8M cap numbers)
CB Jason Verrett 3-5yr deal worth $6M a yr ($9.4M GTD, $2.5M, $4.5M, $5M, $8M, $10M cap numbers)
CB Emmanuel Moseley 1yr RFA 2nd Rd Tender
SS Marcell Harris 1yr RFA Original Rd Tender
LS Taybor Pepper 4yr $4.36M deal, $1.09M a yr($200K GTD, $970K, $1.085M, $1.13M, $1.175M cap numbers)

Cuts/Trades, Pay Cuts, or Restructures:

QB Jimmy Garoppolo (Cutting/Trading him would save $23,723,529 pre June 1, $25,123,529 post June 1, $18.42M to restructure deal)
C Weston Richburg (Cutting him would save $4,496,349 pre June 1, $7.95M post June 1)
DE Dee Ford (Cutting him would save $5,724,126 pre June 1, $15,294,118 post June 1)
DE Arik Armstead (Restructure saves $4.528M)
FS Jimmie Ward (Restructure saves $5.86M, cutting saves $1,441,176, trade saves additional $3.5M)

I don't see them parting ways with either Armstead or Ward. If they trade or cut Jimmy, they wouldn't need to redo AA or Ward. If they want to bring back the players I mentioned(mainly K'Waun, Trent, Juice, Hyder, & Verrett) they need to cut or do a pay cut for Dee ASAP, same for Richburg. June 1 cuts don't help, I don't want to hear the whole Warner's extension talk, it'll be easy like Kittle's, no it wasn't 100% easy to get done, the bonus was, give Warner a $15M bonus, $3M prorated each year from 2021-2025.

I currently have the 49ers getting Ford to take a $8M pay cut and Richburg a $5M pay cut, with around $6.991M in cap room after these moves, includes redoing AA, Ward, and Jimmy(I would like to see him given one more shot), and pay cuts for Dee and Richburg, if they cut Dee/Richburg they'd lose about $2.3M for Dee, & $500K for Richburg, so the cap room would go down to $4.191M, and that's before any other cuts or potential restructure of say Laken Tomlinson(I can see them extending him, he & Trent have been good on the left side, so they may want to keep them together), and this is based on a $175M cap, if the cap goes up to say $195M, then I wouldn't touch Ward or AA's deals, I would have them at around $16M under, also this is before any carryover or credits, same for on a $175M cap, if they do get the $3.125M LTBE credits, $2,465,625 for pre game roster bonuses not earned, and $304,500 UDFAs GTD money pay backs, and $2.8M carryover, I have them at $15.744M under on a $175M cap, or $25.356M on a $195M cap.

I won't go into the draft, as I don't know crap about prospects anymore, I stopped doing that a few yrs back.

Thank you AB for this breakdown and what you continue to bring to this forum! I am curious your thoughts on Mullins vs CJ. What do you think a new deal for CJ looks like?

Originally posted by WAniner80:
Thank you AB for this breakdown and what you continue to bring to this forum! I am curious your thoughts on Mullins vs CJ. What do you think a new deal for CJ looks like?

If CJ is to be brought back it's no more than a veteran minimum salary benefit deal, which would be $850K plus max $137,500 in bonuses, he would be able to earn $990K, but only the $850K would count. I wouldn't go over that, he hasn't shown much to earn anything above that, same for Witherspoon. Mullens wise, I'd just tender him the original round if it's true he needs TJ surgery, I doubt any team would give him an offer sheet.

Good work AB. JV would be crazy to take that deal unless we paying him a large chunk of that guaraneteed money in the 1st year. I know the injury history is there but our top legit #1 CB isn't going to sign for basically the same amount as our fullback. Like the TW and Hyder deals. Probably lean towards a 2/3 year deal with Hyder.

Originally posted by lamontb:
Good work AB. JV would be crazy to take that deal unless we paying him a large chunk of that guaraneteed money in the 1st year. I know the injury history is there but our top legit #1 CB isn't going to sign for basically the same amount as our fullback. Like the TW and Hyder deals. Probably lean towards a 2/3 year deal with Hyder.

I know it's a bit low for Verrett, but I was told his past injury history will go against him.