Defensive Line Thread

Oh damn, I guess the Niners should not play any games this season?
I mean it's not like players and specially young players could improve during a season.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
The cope in this thread is Godzilla size.

Keion is unproven and had his ankle shot in the offseason.

Bosa couldn't make it through training camp without a four week "load management" vacation.

Collins and West have a proven history of ineffectiveness, as rookies, and are dealing with injuries to boot.

Osa is a stud but he cant hold up the dam by himself.

We are putting a lot on Height Holton and Williams.

Two rookies and an acl recovery job who wont be able to put on strength until the next offseason.

Add in a shift to a new defensive scheme without quality in the safety room and this could get ugly.

If we roll snake eyes with injuries I am looking at a historic defensive season unlike any other that has been seen in the NFL since the age of parity began. Think the last two Seattle games multiplied by 16

🤣

Make some good points but idk where you get this "cope" from I think the reason this thread blew up was the realization that not only do we not have a legit edge to pair with Bosa but our interior defense line is questionable. Theres tons of potential there but looked atrocious throughout preseason. Feels like we have Osa and 4 different "?" behind him

We rolled snake eyes last season and still almost got the 1 seed. This defense is better than last year with the addition of Osa and Greenlaw coming back.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
The cope in this thread is Godzilla size.

Keion is unproven and had his ankle shot in the offseason.

Bosa couldn't make it through training camp without a four week "load management" vacation.

Collins and West have a proven history of ineffectiveness, as rookies, and are dealing with injuries to boot.

Osa is a stud but he cant hold up the dam by himself.

We are putting a lot on Height Holton and Williams.

Two rookies and an acl recovery job who wont be able to put on strength until the next offseason.

Add in a shift to a new defensive scheme without quality in the safety room and this could get ugly.

If we roll snake eyes with injuries I am looking at a historic defensive season unlike any other that has been seen in the NFL since the age of parity began. Think the last two Seattle games multiplied by 16

🤣

Can someone get hoov tapes of the preseason games? Thanks.

Originally posted by Since07:
Make some good points but idk where you get this "cope" from I think the reason this thread blew up was the realization that not only do we not have a legit edge to pair with Bosa but our interior defense line is questionable. Theres tons of potential there but looked atrocious throughout preseason. Feels like we have Osa and 4 different "?" behind him

We rolled snake eyes last season and still almost got the 1 seed. This defense is better than last year with the addition of Osa and Greenlaw coming back.

Thats not the only change though. Our vet bkups and B players have totally DISAPPEARED.

Huff Ferrel Elliott gross matos and Givens GONE. No superstars there but each contributed something at some point that a vet can do. Setting edge not getting fooled on bubble screens and delays rushing with little gas and some brake to pressure a quarterback into a s***** game ending incompletion. That's all vet stuff and it's gone.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by Since07:
Make some good points but idk where you get this "cope" from I think the reason this thread blew up was the realization that not only do we not have a legit edge to pair with Bosa but our interior defense line is questionable. Theres tons of potential there but looked atrocious throughout preseason. Feels like we have Osa and 4 different "?" behind him

We rolled snake eyes last season and still almost got the 1 seed. This defense is better than last year with the addition of Osa and Greenlaw coming back.

Thats not the only change though. Our vet bkups and B players have totally DISAPPEARED.

Huff Ferrel Elliott gross matos and Givens GONE. No superstars there but each contributed something at some point that a vet can do. Setting edge not getting fooled on bubble screens and delays rushing with little gas and some brake to pressure a quarterback into a s***** game ending incompletion. That's all vet stuff and it's gone.

Huff and Ferrell were solid. We got Height to replace Huff. we barley saw Matos, Elliot and Givens weren't anything special but I see your point seems like 2/3rds of our DL are rookies or sophomores

Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
Our run D was actually vastly better when CJ West played nose. Like almost a full YPC better when he was in. I'm not worried about him. He has proven to be very stout vs the run.

Collins on the other hand has shown nothing and graded out poorly last year. He won't be a starter. That's reserved for Osa and West. Halton will probably replace West in nickle too eventually leaving Collins as a backup NT.

from where did you get this???????
CJ West was trash last year, he was even worse than Collins,.... as I posted a couple of pages before their PFF grades were:

- Alfred Collins: 42,2 which ranks 123 among 134 DIs

- CJ West: 39,7 which ranks 130 among 134 DIs

And their run-defense grades (the task they were drafted to carry out trying to improve the 24' s**tty run defense):

- Alfred Collins: 30,6 which ranks 129 among 134 DIs

- CJ West: 28,8 which ranks 134 among 134 DIs, dead last!!!

many things can be argued against the PFF grades but when a player is dead last one thing is sure, he's not "very stout"

Originally posted by replikante:

Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
Our run D was actually vastly better when CJ West played nose. Like almost a full YPC better when he was in. I'm not worried about him. He has proven to be very stout vs the run.

Collins on the other hand has shown nothing and graded out poorly last year. He won't be a starter. That's reserved for Osa and West. Halton will probably replace West in nickle too eventually leaving Collins as a backup NT.

from where did you get this???????
CJ West was trash last year, he was even worse than Collins,.... as I posted a couple of pages before their PFF grades were:

- Alfred Collins: 42,2 which ranks 123 among 134 DIs

- CJ West: 39,7 which ranks 130 among 134 DIs

And their run-defense grades (the task they were drafted to carry out trying to improve the 24' s**tty run defense):

- Alfred Collins: 30,6 which ranks 129 among 134 DIs

- CJ West: 28,8 which ranks 134 among 134 DIs, dead last!!!

many things can be argued against the PFF grades but when a player is dead last one thing is sure, he's not "very stout"

Maybe don't use PFF to make all your claims. They also have Jake Brendel as an above average center .

"When CJ West was on the field during his 2025 rookie season, San Francisco 49ers opponents averaged a stout 3.3 yards per rushing attempt, compared to 4.7 yards per carry when he was on the sideline. [1]

Run Defense Splits

With CJ West on the field: Opponents averaged 3.3 yards per rush across 120 attempts, highlighting his role as a dense, low-center-of-gravity interior anchor in the middle of the defensive line. [1]
Without CJ West on the field: Opponents jumped to 4.7 yards per rush across 304 attempts, exposing a noticeable drop-off in interior gap control when he rotated out. [1]"

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
The cope in this thread is Godzilla size.

Keion is unproven and had his ankle shot in the offseason.

Bosa couldn't make it through training camp without a four week "load management" vacation.

Collins and West have a proven history of ineffectiveness, as rookies, and are dealing with injuries to boot.

Osa is a stud but he cant hold up the dam by himself.

We are putting a lot on Height Holton and Williams.

Two rookies and an acl recovery job who wont be able to put on strength until the next offseason.

Add in a shift to a new defensive scheme without quality in the safety room and this could get ugly.

If we roll snake eyes with injuries I am looking at a historic defensive season unlike any other that has been seen in the NFL since the age of parity began. Think the last two Seattle games multiplied by 16

🤣

Can someone get hoov tapes of the preseason games? Thanks.

🤣🤣

Originally posted by Sask49erFan:

Originally posted by _Goldblooded_:

Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
He didn't look good when he played last year

He did with regards to stopping the run setting the edge and rushing from the interior.

I disagree. He was mediocre as a pass rusher and the metrics agree. Setting the edge? Sure. But we could have found that from a 4th round guy.

The 11th overall pick needs to be a game changing pass rusher. Plain and simple. And he's no-where near that.

And I completely disagree with you, man,... Mykel Williams was a stout against the run and showed tons of potential as pass-rusher,.... he was just 20 when he was drafted and 21 when he played his first NFL game

despite being a rookie he was one of the most double teamed DEs in the league


and, unlike Collins or West, he was able to handle to be double teamed,... he was not pushed away some 10 yards every play,.... and despite being constantly double teamed he was able to deliver against the run:

"The 49ers run defense allowed a 42% success rate and a 4.9% explosive run rate with Williams on the field. When he wasn't playing, those numbers skyrocketed to 52.9% and 11.8%."
https://www.ninersnation.com/san-francisco-49ers-news/159816/fred-warner-believes-the-49ers-have-a-three-headed-monster-along-the-defensive-line

In his first NFL game he was, according to Next Gen Stats, the most double teamed DE in the entire league,.... and that was with Bosa on the field which is a huge plus since he liberates Bosa from being double teamed,... and, again, despite being constantly double teamed he still showed elite power and speed off the edge as can be seen in the following video



he was drafted to set the edge in the first downs (which he already did perfectly well) and rush from the interior,... he showed he has the power and strength to collapse the pocket and create pressure, he still has to develop the ability to get to the QB and get sacks,... but IMO the potential is there and he's still very very young,... and he got an injury that has set back his chance to do it,... but I think he can be the best in the league in this double task of setting the edge against the run and rushing from the interior

Never got the hate for Williams. He's a game changer regardless of how many sacks he gets. He will contribute eventually. Maybe this year.

Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
Maybe don't use PFF to make all your claims. They also have Jake Brendel as an above average center .

"When CJ West was on the field during his 2025 rookie season, San Francisco 49ers opponents averaged a stout 3.3 yards per rushing attempt, compared to 4.7 yards per carry when he was on the sideline. [1]

Run Defense Splits

With CJ West on the field: Opponents averaged 3.3 yards per rush across 120 attempts, highlighting his role as a dense, low-center-of-gravity interior anchor in the middle of the defensive line. [1]
Without CJ West on the field: Opponents jumped to 4.7 yards per rush across 304 attempts, exposing a noticeable drop-off in interior gap control when he rotated out. [1]"

yeah, and the reason behind what you are posting is that last year we had no one behind Collins and West as DI,... their substitutes were even worse but that doesn't mean that they were any good,... in fact our run defense was one of the worst in the league with both Collins and West

I hope he were good but I cannot see it,... and the film doesn't show it either,... last season's film as well as last game's

Originally posted by replikante:

Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
Maybe don't use PFF to make all your claims. They also have Jake Brendel as an above average center .

"When CJ West was on the field during his 2025 rookie season, San Francisco 49ers opponents averaged a stout 3.3 yards per rushing attempt, compared to 4.7 yards per carry when he was on the sideline. [1]

Run Defense Splits

With CJ West on the field: Opponents averaged 3.3 yards per rush across 120 attempts, highlighting his role as a dense, low-center-of-gravity interior anchor in the middle of the defensive line. [1]
Without CJ West on the field: Opponents jumped to 4.7 yards per rush across 304 attempts, exposing a noticeable drop-off in interior gap control when he rotated out. [1]"

yeah, and the reason behind what you are posting is that last year we had no one behind Collins and West as DI,... their substitutes were even worse but that doesn't mean that they were any good,... in fact our run defense was one of the worst in the league with both Collins and West

I hope he were good but I cannot see it,... and the film doesn't show it either,... last season's film as well as last game's

3.3 YPR is not "one of the worst in the league"

Also, I could care less about a meaningless pre-season game.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Never got the hate for Williams. He's a game changer regardless of how many sacks he gets. He will contribute eventually. Maybe this year.

IF (big IF) we could have Bosa, Williams, and Osa on the field at the same time, life would be good.

Originally posted by pdc20:
Oh damn, I guess the Niners should not play any games this season?
I mean it's not like players and specially young players could improve during a season.

I say they forfeit now and save us all the trouble. Better yet, just give up and fold the franchise. It's just easier that way.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Never got the hate for Williams. He's a game changer regardless of how many sacks he gets. He will contribute eventually. Maybe this year.

Game changer is a bit extreme. Solid edge setter and run defender sure.

19 pressures, 12 run stops and 1 sack in 385 snaps doesn't exactly scream "game changer"

A game changer is Myles Garrett

84 pressures, 45 run stops, 25 sacks