Defensive Line Thread

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by billbird2111:

Originally posted by lamontb:
Trying to pinpoint one guy is difficult. It's the whole front 7 missing tackles and hitting the wrong gaps. These dues can and better play better.

Heard a very interesting take from Steve Young on this. I know he's a former QB. But, he's played the game at a very high level so he probably knows about this stuff. But he opined on KNBR that if the 49er defense goes with a five man rush instead of four, Mahomes will tear it apart. The only way to beat Mahomes is to get to him with a four-man look. Period.

So, now, this makes me wonder. What the heck are the 49ers going to do? I really thought the return of Armstead would shore up the 49er defense against the run, but that hasn't happened. If anything, the line play has been worse. They did improve considerably in the second half of the Lions game. But what part of that was the 49er defense as opposed to the Lions just absolutely falling apart? Was it timely blitzing by Tashaun Gibson? Timely blitzing by Fred Warner? A combination of four or five things?

I hope they find the answer. Because the Chiefs are not going to fall apart in the second half of the Super Bowl. Period.

Personally, I think either Wilks is holding back or he's being held back. What I mean by that is that Wilks is another zone-blitz guy like Spagnuolo. He's (I think,) not been his regular blitzing self this year. 49ers haven't blitzed a lot under his regime compared to his stints at other places in my opinion.

One reason is that the front 4 of the 49ers don't really need to blitz when trying to create QB pressures. So he's played (I think) more of a vanilla defense and hasn't really done a lot of stunts and various zone coverage schemes. In a sense, he's *still learning* the Wide 9, and the Saleh/Carroll coverage principles.

Now he's getting into the playoffs and his vanilla defense is being exposed. He (I think) starts zone blitzing more in the 2nd halves. And that's maybe why there are two kinds of 49er defenses. The first half and the 2nd half defense.

Is it a good idea to blitz Mahomes? Seems like he's the one guy you don't blitz and just play man coverage all game.

Originally posted by Crown:
In my opinion you have to go with what got you here.

Sure adjustments can be made but it is way too late in the season to make wholesale changes.
That would be disruptive beyond repair at this stage.

Agree, but some adjustments may have to move Jaiyere Brown into more of blitzing role, and a bit more stunts and dogs from the DLine side on third and longs. I think 49er defense on third and long (in the first half) are playing too much passive vanilla defense vs more of an aggressive defense. But that's just a feeling vs an actual point. In other words, I see more QB pressure (,for whatever reason,) in the 2nd half vs the first half. But I couldn't really point out why.

Originally posted by Young2Owens:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by billbird2111:

Originally posted by lamontb:
Trying to pinpoint one guy is difficult. It's the whole front 7 missing tackles and hitting the wrong gaps. These dues can and better play better.

Heard a very interesting take from Steve Young on this. I know he's a former QB. But, he's played the game at a very high level so he probably knows about this stuff. But he opined on KNBR that if the 49er defense goes with a five man rush instead of four, Mahomes will tear it apart. The only way to beat Mahomes is to get to him with a four-man look. Period.

So, now, this makes me wonder. What the heck are the 49ers going to do? I really thought the return of Armstead would shore up the 49er defense against the run, but that hasn't happened. If anything, the line play has been worse. They did improve considerably in the second half of the Lions game. But what part of that was the 49er defense as opposed to the Lions just absolutely falling apart? Was it timely blitzing by Tashaun Gibson? Timely blitzing by Fred Warner? A combination of four or five things?

I hope they find the answer. Because the Chiefs are not going to fall apart in the second half of the Super Bowl. Period.

Personally, I think either Wilks is holding back or he's being held back. What I mean by that is that Wilks is another zone-blitz guy like Spagnuolo. He's (I think,) not been his regular blitzing self this year. 49ers haven't blitzed a lot under his regime compared to his stints at other places in my opinion.

One reason is that the front 4 of the 49ers don't really need to blitz when trying to create QB pressures. So he's played (I think) more of a vanilla defense and hasn't really done a lot of stunts and various zone coverage schemes. In a sense, he's *still learning* the Wide 9, and the Saleh/Carroll coverage principles.

Now he's getting into the playoffs and his vanilla defense is being exposed. He (I think) starts zone blitzing more in the 2nd halves. And that's maybe why there are two kinds of 49er defenses. The first half and the 2nd half defense.

Is it a good idea to blitz Mahomes? Seems like he's the one guy you don't blitz and just play man coverage all game.

Agree, you don't blitz Patrick a lot. He'll kill you. But you have to mix up your defense to at least slow him down. Forget *stopping him* he's another elite QB like Purdy and Joe Montana, you ain't stopping him. But at least mix up the defensive coverages to slow him down and help Purdy keep up with the KC offense.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Crown:
In my opinion you have to go with what got you here.

Sure adjustments can be made but it is way too late in the season to make wholesale changes.
That would be disruptive beyond repair at this stage.

Agree, but some adjustments may have to move Jaiyere Brown into more of blitzing role, and a bit more stunts and dogs from the DLine side on third and longs. I think 49er defense on third and long (in the first half) are playing too much passive vanilla defense vs more of an aggressive defense. But that's just a feeling vs an actual point. In other words, I see more QB pressure (,for whatever reason,) in the 2nd half vs the first half. But I couldn't really point out why.

Agree.

Part of me worries about going to more 5 man fronts.

Mahomes may eat that alive.

I swear Wilks DBs play way too far back and are useless in the run game and give up 3rd/15 for free.

Would like to see just a little more press.

But all of that pales in comparison to the new 9ers trend of half ass shoulder tackles with no arm wraps - when the hell did this start?

Originally posted by Young2Owens:
Is it a good idea to blitz Mahomes? Seems like he's the one guy you don't blitz and just play man coverage all game.

Blitzing him is inviting him to head out on the highway with no traffic for a big run.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
I'm kind of looking forward to somewhat of a reset by our D line. Treat it almost like we are a 5 - 12 team as opposed to 12 - 5 where you are trying to get good players on the team.

Going into 2024, we would have AA, Bosa, Hargrave, Ferrell (hope he is resigned), Beal, Jackson, and Davis. Not much faith in Jackson and Davis is injury prone. Hoping we draft a run stuffer in the 3rd that can start on 1st and 2nd immediately. Move AA back to DE on those base downs and have a starting lineup of AA/rookie DT/Hargrave/Bosa.

We've got to get than run under control. It needs to be a day 1 starter.

On pass rushing downs, we can play around with lineups, but right now Bosa/AA/Hargrave/Beal look decent.

The loss of Adam Peter's has got me bothered, not gonna lie. Now knowing Kyle's heavily involved in drafting the DLine - kind of shows me a little bit why the defensive line drafts have been meh. (Kinlaw, Solomon, Reubens, Drake etc...). My hope is Kyle somehow either gets better at drafting defense or leaves defensive drafts entirely to his lieutenants and defensive coaches.

Urban legend with Peters. As for those busts, its clear what they value in players, but the issue is overdrafting based on those traits. But to pin it all on Kyle? I think Thomas was more Lynch. Kocurek wanted Kinlaw. Drake had elite traits, but the guy just hasn't developed. I won't fault the staff for that because they have shown they can develop D-line players.

My hope is that they get finished products that can contribute now. No redshirts.

Let KC's DC eat his own play medicine !!

INSERT THE SPEED FOUR TO SLOW DOW 15...

92 - 98 - 97 - 5

Inject the Poison

5 Man Front!

Put Kinlaw right in the middle with Hargrave and Armstead next to him. This accomplishes three things: 1. Strengths the run D on the first level - Kinlaw and Armstead are by far our biggest DL AND our best interior run stuffers. By having them closer together, they eat up more blockers inside which helps free up Warner and Greenlaw to make tackles. 2. It eliminates the A gap and so Mahomes can't just step right up and just take off through the middle of the field when he feels pressure and helps keep him in the pocket. 3. Gets Bosa and our EDGE rushers one-on-one against KC's offensive tackles.
Armstead,Kinlaw,Hargrave,Bosa Young. Fill in with others here and there. Should help with the run game.

Thank you guy for bringing up hitting kelce all game long dude gets free releases i always wonder why teams never hit him on the release

Originally posted by RonnieLott:
Inject the Poison

5 Man Front!

Put Kinlaw right in the middle with Hargrave and Armstead next to him. This accomplishes three things: 1. Strengths the run D on the first level - Kinlaw and Armstead are by far our biggest DL AND our best interior run stuffers. By having them closer together, they eat up more blockers inside which helps free up Warner and Greenlaw to make tackles. 2. It eliminates the A gap and so Mahomes can't just step right up and just take off through the middle of the field when he feels pressure and helps keep him in the pocket. 3. Gets Bosa and our EDGE rushers one-on-one against KC's offensive tackles.
Armstead,Kinlaw,Hargrave,Bosa Young. Fill in with others here and there. Should help with the run game.

Thank you guy for bringing up hitting kelce all game long dude gets free releases i always wonder why teams never hit him on the release

it should only be THE HORNED FROGS D !!

4-2-5 !!

Chris Jones destroyed the 49ers interior line which shut down the interior running game while harassing JimmyG. Then, in the second-half, he really stepped it up to almost completely shut down the 49ers offense holding it to 49 yards in four possessions in the 4th!!!

Chris Jones is the Chiefs real MVP

Originally posted by Crown:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Crown:
In my opinion you have to go with what got you here.

Sure adjustments can be made but it is way too late in the season to make wholesale changes.
That would be disruptive beyond repair at this stage.

Agree, but some adjustments may have to move Jaiyere Brown into more of blitzing role, and a bit more stunts and dogs from the DLine side on third and longs. I think 49er defense on third and long (in the first half) are playing too much passive vanilla defense vs more of an aggressive defense. But that's just a feeling vs an actual point. In other words, I see more QB pressure (,for whatever reason,) in the 2nd half vs the first half. But I couldn't really point out why.

Agree.

Part of me worries about going to more 5 man fronts.

Mahomes may eat that alive.

I swear Wilks DBs play way too far back and are useless in the run game and give up 3rd/15 for free.

Would like to see just a little more press.

But all of that pales in comparison to the new 9ers trend of half ass shoulder tackles with no arm wraps - when the hell did this start?

This

Playing with a 5 man front and man coverage vs 13 personal is absolutely mandatory.

Originally posted by RonnieLott:
Playing with a 5 man front and man coverage vs 13 personal is absolutely mandatory.

No way man. Come out with a 5 man front and Mahomes will be chucking it all over the field.

Originally posted by 9moon:
Let KC's DC eat his own play medicine !!

INSERT THE SPEED FOUR TO SLOW DOW 15...

92 - 98 - 97 - 5

Interesting idea. the Death lineup!!