Cap casualties - who is getting cut

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by pdizo916:
For the love of God, please cut Garnett and Armstead.

There's no reason to cut Garnett...he's making like $2.9 million and we eat about half that in dead money. He's a backup (with starting experience) and still has upside...I actually thought he played well when he got in there this yr.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by pdizo916:
For the love of God, please cut Garnett and Armstead.

There's no reason to cut Garnett...he's making like $2.9 million and we eat about half that in dead money. He's a backup (with starting experience) and still has upside...I actually thought he played well when he got in there this yr.

I agree, he can compete with a vet or draft pick for the starting role, or be our 3rd guard. Person can be resigned as a backup Center and emergency Guard. Full off season in the system, and familiarity with what he's doing will possibly blossom him out.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by pdizo916:
For the love of God, please cut Garnett and Armstead.

There's no reason to cut Garnett...he's making like $2.9 million and we eat about half that in dead money. He's a backup (with starting experience) and still has upside...I actually thought he played well when he got in there this yr.

NO REASON??????????? I can give you two: He is not talented and he cannot stay healthy. ]

I understand that he is a former a first round draft choice, but if he was a rookie free agent or if he was drafted very late, people would be calling for his release. The only reason why he has stuck around because the 49ers used a high draft pick to get him.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Simple...with players already on the roster. If Taylor is back to 100% he can compete with James, Taylor with Street and Bourne with whatever ZWR we draft. I'm talking the 53...not the 90.

Who's Street?

Originally posted by dj43:
OK. Let's say they do that. Let's say neither is worth keeping around even for depth. How do you replace them individually?

Remember, we only have 5 draft picks.

I thought they had six picks, including a supplemental pick.

But there are many ways of acquiring players in the NFL, mostly free agency. The team could sign two cheap vets or the team can sign a rookie free agent. A team can work out a trade or a swap. Maybe trade one of its young corners for a guard. They could use one of their draft picks to draft one. (maybe they will move down from 2 and acquire more picks. The Murray hype train is in full swing)

Relying on Garnett is playing roulette. If he ever gets into a game, it's bye bye to Jimmy G's career. He is a liability.

Originally posted by pdizo916:
NO REASON??????????? I can give you two: He is not talented and he cannot stay healthy. ]

I understand that he is a former a first round draft choice, but if he was a rookie free agent or if he was drafted very late, people would be calling for his release. The only reason why he has stuck around because the 49ers used a high draft pick to get him.

See but he's not, and his contract reflects that. We're not saving some massive cap space by cutting him and then you got to spend more money (or draft capital) on replacing his roster spot (which is someone that can play both LG/RG).

That's why cutting him doesn't really make a ton of sense. Not every player is gonna be a starter on a 53 man roster. You need depth and upside. What he's getting paid isn't outrageous and cutting him doesn't really save us a ton of money either.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by pdizo916:
NO REASON??????????? I can give you two: He is not talented and he cannot stay healthy. ]

I understand that he is a former a first round draft choice, but if he was a rookie free agent or if he was drafted very late, people would be calling for his release. The only reason why he has stuck around because the 49ers used a high draft pick to get him.

See but he's not, and his contract reflects that. We're not saving some massive cap space by cutting him and then you got to spend more money (or draft capital) on replacing his roster spot (which is someone that can play both LG/RG).

That's why cutting him doesn't really make a ton of sense. Not every player is gonna be a starter on a 53 man roster. You need depth and upside. What he's getting paid isn't outrageous and cutting him doesn't really save us a ton of money either.

It's not about cap savings, it's about putting the most reliable team on the field. I see no upside in Garnett. He will be in his 4th year and his game mostly tailors to a power scheme. He is often injured and he has been very bad over the past three years. That kind of production doesn't scream upside to me. We will agree to disagree. I'm not trying to fight with you like GMniner. lol.

Originally posted by pdizo916:
I thought they had six picks, including a supplemental pick.

But there are many ways of acquiring players in the NFL, mostly free agency. The team could sign two cheap vets or the team can sign a rookie free agent. A team can work out a trade or a swap. Maybe trade one of its young corners for a guard. They could use one of their draft picks to draft one. (maybe they will move down from 2 and acquire more picks. The Murray hype train is in full swing)

Relying on Garnett is playing roulette. If he ever gets into a game, it's bye bye to Jimmy G's career. He is a liability.

They have 6 including the compensatory pick.

He actually played well this yr when he played...injures are the real concern.

Originally posted by pdizo916:
It's not about cap savings, it's about putting the most reliable team on the field. I see no upside in Garnett. He will be in his 4th year and his game mostly tailors to a power scheme. He is often injured and he has been very bad over the past three years. That kind of production doesn't scream upside to me. We will agree to disagree. I'm not trying to fight with you like GMniner. lol.

He wasn't actually bad when he played this yr. Oh I know, we're not name calling or anything lol. just talking.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by pdizo916:
I thought they had six picks, including a supplemental pick.

But there are many ways of acquiring players in the NFL, mostly free agency. The team could sign two cheap vets or the team can sign a rookie free agent. A team can work out a trade or a swap. Maybe trade one of its young corners for a guard. They could use one of their draft picks to draft one. (maybe they will move down from 2 and acquire more picks. The Murray hype train is in full swing)

Relying on Garnett is playing roulette. If he ever gets into a game, it's bye bye to Jimmy G's career. He is a liability.

They have 6 including the compensatory pick.

He actually played well this yr when he played...injures are the real concern.

so you agree with me that he has a history with injuries. How can a player who has been injured throughout the years can become reliable? Sometimes, a player and a team needs a fresh start.

Originally posted by dj43:
His cap number this year is a result of back loading his contract, if I understand this correctly. His APY, per overthecap, is only $2,460,657.

What all that means is that he likely will wind up extending for something a little south of $9M. I see it be in the $7.5/8M range.

Back to ranking; In looking at all the edge players around the league, once you get outside the top 10 you see substantial differences between pass rush and run defense ratings. One of the craziest is at the very top of ERs where Calais Campbell is #1 largely on the basis of his crazy 93.4 run defense number. His pass rush is a very average 70.4, essentially the same as AA. Another example is Dee Ford who has the highest pass rush number (91.1) but a 67.6 in run defense.

A 10 point difference between pass and run defense is common in the 12-20 range, exactly where Armstead is; 67.2 to 78.3.

We need a pass rush so if Kocurek doesn't see him rushing the passer as BE, then move him to DT or trade. No more square peg/round hole stuff.

A good DL will have solid rotational players and Armstead is at least that. You can't get by with just four unless they are the Fearsome Foursome.

AA? he's getting a 5th yr option salary is based off the following....

There's a difference in option-year salary depending where in the first round a player is drafted. The fifth-year salary for the top 10 picks is the transition tender (average of the 10 highest salaries) for a player's position in the fourth year of his contract. With players selected outside of the top 10 (picks 11-32), the fifth-year salary is the average of the third- through 25th-highest salaries at a player's position.

I'm cool with having depth, he's not a edge rusher and it really shouldn't be an option imo. You shouldn't be paying $9 million to a guy that's more than likely a rotational depth DT who is okay at stopping the run and isn't very good at rushing the passer IMO. You could sign two guys to do that for the amount of cash you're giving AA. It's the principle I know we can afford it for one more yr.

Originally posted by pdizo916:
It's not about cap savings, it's about putting the most reliable team on the field. I see no upside in Garnett. He will be in his 4th year and his game mostly tailors to a power scheme. He is often injured and he has been very bad over the past three years. That kind of production doesn't scream upside to me. We will agree to disagree. I'm not trying to fight with you like GMniner. lol.

Garnett is making 3 million.

It will cost 1.2 million to cut him.

It's not about if Garnett sucks or not in a vacuum.

It's about if you can cut Garnett and get a replacement with more talent and upside for 1.7 million.

If you know who that guy is I'm all ears, but players with talent and upside who can be had for 1.7 million on a one year deal aren't really a thing.

TBF I don't think Garnett sucks as much as he has been injured the past two years.

If we went in a vacuum again and I told you that for 1.7 million you could have a 25 year old former first round pick who has dealt with injuries the past two years, you might be saying, "Yeah! Exactly! That's the type of person we should replace Garnett with!"

It turns out that already is Garnett. :)

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Simple...with players already on the roster. If Taylor is back to 100% he can compete with James, Taylor with Street and Bourne with whatever ZWR we draft. I'm talking the 53...not the 90.

Who's Street?

Kentavius Street AKA Baby Hulk

Originally posted by pdizo916:
so you agree with me that he has a history with injuries. How can a player who has been injured throughout the years can become reliable? Sometimes, a player and a team needs a fresh start.

no doubt, I don't think you can argue injuries have been a issue. Problem is you need depth and at this current state we have no starter at RG (Person is a FA). I don't see the point in cutting a 24 yr old at a position of need, who doesn't make a lot of money, and doesn't really save us a ton in doing it. They can still bring in FA/draft pick and have him on the team. IF he ends up getting cut in training camp so be it. No reason to do it before that.

Originally posted by Curlin:

Originally posted by NCommand:
A whole bunch of these guys (post-June cuts).

2019 Cap Cuts/Savings:
Pierre Garcon $5.88M
Garry Gilliam $5.05M
Cassius Marsh $4.2M
Malcolm Smith $4.05M
Earl Mitchell $3.7M
Brock Coyle $2.5M.....cut him today, tomorrow and everyday for the next week just to make sure he is gone.
Garrett Celek $2.1M
Dekoda Watson $1.55M
C.J. BeatHard $786K...............maybe trade for a low pick
Trent Taylor $645K
Matt Dayes $645K
James Onwualu $645K
Kendrick Bourne $645K
Colin Holba $645K
Ryan Delaire $645K
Pita Taumoepenu $645K
Godwin Igwebuike $570K
Jullian Taylor $570K
Kapron Lewis-Moore $565K
Max McCaffrey $565K
Tyree Robinson $565K
Ross Dwelley $565K
Najee Toran $565K
Marcus Lucas $495K
Christian Dilauro $495K
Jordan Smallwood $495K
Steven Dunbar $495K
Terrell Williams $495K
Tarvarus McFadden $495K
Emmanuel Moseley $495K
J.P. Flynn $495K

KEEP............the rest are replaceable

Keep... in mind all those numbers are for POST June cuts or trades. Plus you're not freeing up all of that money from the cap.

If they cut Coyle today his cap savings would be $1,425,000. Dead money would be $1,400,000. Freeing up a whopping $25,000 in cap space. lol

4/1/19 - 6/1/19 Release
Cap saving $325,000. Dead money $2.5m. Costing the team $2,175,000 in cap space.

Post June 1st cut or trade will free up about $1.425m but he'd still have dead money on the 2020 cap. Total savings would be $725,000.

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
Garnett is making 3 million.

It will cost 1.2 million to cut him.

It's not about if Garnett sucks or not in a vacuum.

It's about if you can cut Garnett and get a replacement with more talent and upside for 1.7 million.

If you know who that guy is I'm all ears, but players with talent and upside who can be had for 1.7 million on a one year deal aren't really a thing.

TBF I don't think Garnett sucks as much as he has been injured the past two years.

If we went in a vacuum again and I told you that for 1.7 million you could have a 25 year old former first round pick who has dealt with injuries the past two years, you might be saying, "Yeah! Exactly! That's the type of person we should replace Garnett with!"

It turns out that already is Garnett. :)

This