ZBS and RZ...are they mutually incompatible.

Ok, i was a late convert, maybe early part of this season. I LOVE ZBS for the very reasons kyle uses it. Virtually unstoppable with (Pick your fav RB) on the run, 5 yds or thereabouts. And just as importantly , sets up your passing game.

EXCEPT...when in the RZ. What IF...we had a power blocking scheme for anything inside the RZ? It probably would mean buying an OG who can't Zone Block, BUT...a big 330-350 lb RG/LG who can move people , big people, sure seems like another alternative to what we currently are not succeeding at in the RZ. Just bullnose it in. ZBS is not working for us in the RZ. Here's an alternative. Your thots.

Mods, please feel free to place this wherever . I couldn't decide so fine if you do.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Ok, i was a late convert, maybe early part of this season. I LOVE ZBS for the very reasons kyle uses it. Virtually unstoppable with (Pick your fav RB) on the run, 5 yds or thereabouts. And just as importantly , sets up your passing game.

EXCEPT...when in the RZ. What IF...we had a power blocking scheme for anything inside the RZ? It probably would mean buying an OG who can't Zone Block, BUT...a big 330-350 lb RG/LG who can move people , big people, sure seems like another alternative to what we currently are not succeeding at in the RZ. Just bullnose it in. ZBS is not working for us in the RZ. Here's an alternative. Your thots.

Mods, please feel free to place this wherever . I couldn't decide so fine if you do.

Takes better RB's...go look at how many RB's his daddy had scoring 10+ TD's a season

Here's my thoughts. For starters, I do not think RZ efficiency and running a ZBS are incompatible. I have always believed RZ efficiency is almost primarily a QB stat. Generally quality of QB and time in an offensive system dictates how well an offense operates in the RZ.

We had a power run game back with Harbs. It didn't work in the RZ either.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
We had a power run game back with Harbs. It didn't work in the RZ either.

Remember how much everyone whined about needing a big-body RZ weapon, and then Crabtree goes to Oakland to become a red zone monster.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

We had a power run game back with Harbs. It didn't work in the RZ either.

Remember how much everyone whined about needing a big-body RZ weapon, and then Crabtree goes to Oakland to become a red zone monster.

I think a guy like Pettis is gonna be a redzone monster. His release it's crazy and when he gets consistent reps with Jimmy I think we all are gonna like what happens.

Originally posted by Niners816:
I think a guy like Pettis is gonna be a redzone monster. His release it's crazy and when he gets consistent reps with Jimmy I think we all are gonna like what happens.

Agreed.

I think there's another discussion to be had concerning short yard goaline situations that are always frustrating when you don't convert. In this situation you always have a congested LOS and a compressed field. Therefore certain passing concepts even if you spread them out are taken away and if you go heavy you are running against a stacked box.

I think there is something that teams could steal from the good old dynasty days and it a certain formation we use to run a ton inside the 2-3 yard line. It's this:



What I like about this flat stacked form is that purely based on its design you have 2 quick hitting handoff options that can attack various gaps. Also, no one really runs these forms anymore so defenses really are all that used defending.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Remember how much everyone whined about needing a big-body RZ weapon, and then Crabtree goes to Oakland to become a red zone monster.

While I'd like a bigger bodied WR to go with this corp that doesn't always equal a better RZ offense.

Top two RZ scoring offenses (TDs only) are Pitt and KC they don't have a ton of big bodied WRs (juju is probably the biggest at 6-1 210).

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

We had a power run game back with Harbs. It didn't work in the RZ either.

Remember how much everyone whined about needing a big-body RZ weapon, and then Crabtree goes to Oakland to become a red zone monster.

That was ironical

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
We had a power run game back with Harbs. It didn't work in the RZ either.

Truth - good call!

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Remember how much everyone whined about needing a big-body RZ weapon, and then Crabtree goes to Oakland to become a red zone monster.

While I'd like a bigger bodied WR to go with this corp that doesn't always equal a better RZ offense.

Top two RZ scoring offenses (TDs only) are Pitt and KC they don't have a ton of big bodied WRs (juju is probably the biggest at 6-1 210).

Originally posted by Niners816:

I think there's another discussion to be had concerning short yard goaline situations that are always frustrating when you don't convert. In this situation you always have a congested LOS and a compressed field. Therefore certain passing concepts even if you spread them out are taken away and if you go heavy you are running against a stacked box.

I think there is something that teams could steal from the good old dynasty days and it a certain formation we use to run a ton inside the 2-3 yard line. It's this:



What I like about this flat stacked form is that purely based on its design you have 2 quick hitting handoff options that can attack various gaps. Also, no one really runs these forms anymore so defenses really are all that used defending.

The problem these days is the speed from the LB's. You have RB's who then have farther distances to go to get to their spot than if in an off-set I. Makes those speedy RB's have less of an advantage.

I think Jimmy's quick release and more playmakers and weapons will open up more scoring success.

In regards to the OP. ZBS and redzone arent mutually exclusive. Chip Kelly had a real high success rate and ran ZBS. Elder Shanny had a great RZ rate with Terrel Davis and the other 6 no name guys who ran for 1200+ yards.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

The problem these days is the speed from the LB's. You have RB's who then have farther distances to go to get to their spot than if in an off-set I. Makes those speedy RB's have less of an advantage.

I think Jimmy's quick release and more playmakers and weapons will open up more scoring success.

In regards to the OP. ZBS and redzone arent mutually exclusive. Chip Kelly had a real high success rate and ran ZBS. Elder Shanny had a great RZ rate with Terrel Davis and the other 6 no name guys who ran for 1200+ yards.

I get the speed taking these forms away but in a pure 2-3 yards goal to go situation I think you could get something out of it since by the way it's setup you can have the FB block for the HB or have the HB block for a FB design and really not give it away from the formation. Also having that HB off set, has him closer to the flat already to set spot concept type stuff. I think it could be a nice little wrinkle. Granted trying to run sweep and power stuff from this would be really tuff with the increase in LB speed, but I think not knowing necessarily where a dive is coming from(because they used to dive from both the HB and FB spots in this form) could pose some problems.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Remember how much everyone whined about needing a big-body RZ weapon, and then Crabtree goes to Oakland to become a red zone monster.

I think we wanted speed at receiver because Boldin, Crabs, Stevie was the slowest receiving core ever created but whatever.

The team might benefit looking for a bigger back as the 3rd string guy. Shanny's find backs in their sleep so it shouldn't be a problem but instead of a Breida we should look for a Morris.