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Week 14 - Broncos @ 49ers - Post Game Thread

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Originally posted by Antix:
Bro Kittle had one of the all time great games in the first half. They didnt ganeplan that. And if it makes you feel better we only had like 100 yds of offense in the 2nd half so we tried our best to lose it.

I'm not faulting the team...they're gonna play every week. I'm talking about the fans who would rather have a week 14 win so we can go 3-13 instead of 2-14 and lose the top pick. Pointless imo
  • Karma
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Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Antix:
Bro Kittle had one of the all time great games in the first half. They didnt ganeplan that. And if it makes you feel better we only had like 100 yds of offense in the 2nd half so we tried our best to lose it.

I'm not faulting the team...they're gonna play every week. I'm talking about the fans who would rather have a week 14 win so we can go 3-13 instead of 2-14 and lose the top pick. Pointless imo

I appreciate your stance and your responses. I just don't think the two ideas are mutually exclusive. I'll be sad if we miss out on Bosa just like I was sad that we didn't get Garrett, but enjoying a win separate from this idea is still possible.
Originally posted by Karma:
I disagree with you. Your thesis, if I am correct, is that winning a game is less important than adding Bosa. Here are my counterpoints:

1. This is not a team of vets with a track record. The core players moving forward are young guys cutting their teeth in this league. Breida, McGlinchey, Kittle, Warner, Buckner, and Pettis have all been in the league less than three years and need to develop. The experience of dominating an opponent has been few and far between. These are young men who need to build the confidence that they are capable of playing at a high level in this league. This may be a subjective idea, but my experience tells me not to underestimate the power of confidence.

2. Fringe guys like Elijah Lee, Marcel Harris, and even Witherspoon all cane up with big time plays. We also learned that Richie James shouldn't return punts and probably doesn't deserve to be on the team going forward. It's hard to make accurate player assessments when the tape is all butt whoopings.

3. This idea of fostering a winning culture is so quickly dismissed here, but as a coach and teacher for the past decade plus, I can tell you that having the right environment is paramount to development.

How does one more win at the tail end of a lost season "foster" a winning culture? So they go 3-13 instead of 2–14?
Originally posted by Karma:
I appreciate your stance and your responses. I just don't think the two ideas are mutually exclusive. I'll be sad if we miss out on Bosa just like I was sad that we didn't get Garrett, but enjoying a win separate from this idea is still possible.

Like I said enjoy the win. But winning is actually directly linked to if SF gets Bosa or not.
  • Karma
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Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Karma:
I disagree with you. Your thesis, if I am correct, is that winning a game is less important than adding Bosa. Here are my counterpoints:

1. This is not a team of vets with a track record. The core players moving forward are young guys cutting their teeth in this league. Breida, McGlinchey, Kittle, Warner, Buckner, and Pettis have all been in the league less than three years and need to develop. The experience of dominating an opponent has been few and far between. These are young men who need to build the confidence that they are capable of playing at a high level in this league. This may be a subjective idea, but my experience tells me not to underestimate the power of confidence.

2. Fringe guys like Elijah Lee, Marcel Harris, and even Witherspoon all cane up with big time plays. We also learned that Richie James shouldn't return punts and probably doesn't deserve to be on the team going forward. It's hard to make accurate player assessments when the tape is all butt whoopings.

3. This idea of fostering a winning culture is so quickly dismissed here, but as a coach and teacher for the past decade plus, I can tell you that having the right environment is paramount to development.

How does one more win at the tail end of a lost season "foster" a winning culture? So they go 3-13 instead of 2–14?

It is not the only event that fosters that culture, but it is another step toward it. They beat a playoff hungry team with a brutal pass rush and a good running game. This was a very different win than last year's win against the Ram's backups. Today was good for the players on this team and you can't convince me otherwise.
Winning this game was stupid. It doesn't help this team at all.


But I realistically don't have any faith in the the two idiots running the show to draft the correct player anyway #1 pick or not.
Originally posted by Karma:
Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by Waterbear:
Listen. No one should call someone an idiot for wanting their team to win.

But also no one should tell other people to delete their account because they want to get the first overall pick.

Again it's not that hard to understand. No one is being critical of KS of winning this game or Kittle getting all those yards and scoring touchdowns. Why? Because it's literally the team's job to try and win games.

But if you're arguing that this win would be better for our future than being in position to get Bosa Idk what to tell you other than you haven't been paying attention. We wouldn't even be in this position had we not lost out on Garrett two years ago.

PS the browns are where they are because they have drafted horribly. Now with MG and Mayfield they are much more ready to compete now. Seems like losing all those games really hindered them from beating the Panthers today.

Still waiting for anyone to tell me I'm wrong and why. Any adult talker should do because clearly I have a mental disorder.

I disagree with you. Your thesis, if I am correct, is that winning a game is less important than adding Bosa. Here are my counterpoints:

1. This is not a team of vets with a track record. The core players moving forward are young guys cutting their teeth in this league. Breida, McGlinchey, Kittle, Warner, Buckner, and Pettis have all been in the league less than three years and need to develop. The experience of dominating an opponent has been few and far between. These are young men who need to build the confidence that they are capable of playing at a high level in this league. This may be a subjective idea, but my experience tells me not to underestimate the power of confidence.

2. Fringe guys like Elijah Lee, Marcel Harris, and even Witherspoon all cane up with big time plays. We also learned that Richie James shouldn't return punts and probably doesn't deserve to be on the team going forward. It's hard to make accurate player assessments when the tape is all butt whoopings.

3. This idea of fostering a winning culture is so quickly dismissed here, but as a coach and teacher for the past decade plus, I can tell you that having the right environment is paramount to development.

1. We saw with the young players we had before in Gore, VD, Staley, Smith, and Willis that losing didn't affect their careers going forward and didn't break their confidence only built their work ethic to appreciate wins. That's why we almost won a Superbowl.

2. Giving experience to these guys is irrelevant to whether or not we win those games. You can give young players playing time and have them make big plays and still lose or win. Like Pettis had in the Seattle game did that play not count or give him confidence because we lost the game. But again im not advocating for them to try to do anything but win but I would argue they can build confidence and make plays and still lose.

3. Well as a teacher you should know the Appeal to authority fallacy which is: "Insisting that a claim is true simply because a valid authority or expert on the issue said it was true, without any other supporting evidence offered." Doesn't matter that you or I have coached football (I have) to make your point correct.

A win in a three-win season does not create a winning culture. We won 5 games in a row last year and how did that help us this year? How are the Jags winning culture from last year helping them this year? Oh right... it didn't.

I appreciate you making an argument though because that is what I thought this forum was all about? Arguing your stances and sharing your opinions. I fear that a lot of the time members don't agree with that.
Originally posted by Karma:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Karma:
I disagree with you. Your thesis, if I am correct, is that winning a game is less important than adding Bosa. Here are my counterpoints:

1. This is not a team of vets with a track record. The core players moving forward are young guys cutting their teeth in this league. Breida, McGlinchey, Kittle, Warner, Buckner, and Pettis have all been in the league less than three years and need to develop. The experience of dominating an opponent has been few and far between. These are young men who need to build the confidence that they are capable of playing at a high level in this league. This may be a subjective idea, but my experience tells me not to underestimate the power of confidence.

2. Fringe guys like Elijah Lee, Marcel Harris, and even Witherspoon all cane up with big time plays. We also learned that Richie James shouldn't return punts and probably doesn't deserve to be on the team going forward. It's hard to make accurate player assessments when the tape is all butt whoopings.

3. This idea of fostering a winning culture is so quickly dismissed here, but as a coach and teacher for the past decade plus, I can tell you that having the right environment is paramount to development.

How does one more win at the tail end of a lost season "foster" a winning culture? So they go 3-13 instead of 2–14?

It is not the only event that fosters that culture, but it is another step toward it. They beat a playoff hungry team with a brutal pass rush and a good running game. This was a very different win than last year's win against the Ram's backups. Today was good for the players on this team and you can't convince me otherwise.

Just like last year right? Howd that turn out for us this year?
They can win and develop a winning culture next year. A lot of the current players aren't even going to be on this squad next year.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by 49oz2superbowl:
I'm not faulting the 49ers for winning. No player or coach should ever be in the mindset of tanking, but winning could only have a negative impact on our franchise longterm in a totally lost season. I argued with people just like you when I had this same reaction when we had to settle for the #2 pick and had to settle for Solomon Thomas and miss out on Myles Garret. Well, it looks like the exact same thing is likely to unfold now, only in this case the blue chip player we desperately need will be IN DIVISION so I hope you're excited!!!

Right! It's groundhog's day in here...do people have short term memories or what? We went through this same s**t two yrs ago an people are still complaining about that draft pick. If people haven't noticed head on over it the Thomas thread lol.

How many people still talking about that win over the Rams a couple yrs ago? I sure as s**t am not. Now we gotta root for 3+ teams to win or lose to hope we can land the top spot lol.

My issue is the next edge rusher in this draft is NOT worth the #2 overall pick and imo (hopefully it changes) there isn't a QB worth moving up for, so what we gonna do? Reach for the #2 edge prospect? We aren't gonna take a DT again and that's probably BPA.

People enjoy the win, could have f**ked us out of a blue chip edge rusher, which matters more long term.

One viewpoint is logical, the other is emotional. Difficult to convince emotional people with logic.

I need to start realizing this...emotion blinds a lot of things.

Trust me I get sucked in too lol.

Bottom line when it comes to this is any argument against what you're saying is emotional. There is nothing logical nor strategic about winning games at this point. Especially when there is a generational talent available at our #1 position of need.

Originally posted by Furlow:
Trust me I get sucked in too lol.

Bottom line when it comes to this is any argument against what you're saying is emotional. There is nothing logical nor strategic about winning games at this point. Especially when there is a generational talent available at our #1 position of need.

Bosa is good but he is far from generational.
Originally posted by Karma:
It is not the only event that fosters that culture, but it is another step toward it. They beat a playoff hungry team with a brutal pass rush and a good running game. This was a very different win than last year's win against the Ram's backups. Today was good for the players on this team and you can't convince me otherwise.

Exactly. I agree 100%

I've been playing sports my whole life. Ive been on some stinkers of teams where we only won one game here and there and boy did that win feel great. Imagine what it does for these young guys.
Originally posted by LenCat:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by LenCat:
Mullins stayed on the field for 20 minutes after the clock ran out. He was high-fiving teammates shaking hands with donkeys and pumped up all the way around. That's what you call a winning culture. that is so much more important than some stinking friggin draft pick who may or may not turn out to be good after two or three years. Screw your draft picks.! Yeah 49ers win!!!!!!

Imagine our defense with Myles Garrett rather than Solomon Thomas, and tell me if you still feel that way.
Imagine our history if we drafted Rodgers instead of Smith. Imagine etc etc etc. That's why they say hind sight is 20/20.

Are you bummed out that the 9ers won? Where you rooting for them to lose?

The what if of drafting Rodgers instead is a terrible analogy to what we're talking about.

Bummed? No. I was not rooting against them, but I didn't want them to win.
Originally posted by Waterbear:

We won 5 games in a row last year and how did that help us this year?

Well to start we lost our franchise QB and starting RB and not many teams survive that.

We lost a bunch of close games and we had so many injuries. A couple more breaks our way and this season is complete different.

But you must not have listened to the hype this past offseason. Alot of people had us pegged for the playoffs. Winning those 5 games was huge. It gave this team credibility and players wanted to play for us. How many players wanted to play for the Browns when they stunk?

This league is about winning games. That carries on to next year. It's not about tanking for draft position.
[ Edited by SteveYoung on Dec 9, 2018 at 9:22 PM ]
Originally posted by Waterbear:
Literally no one is saying that. What don't you get that there is a difference between fans and the team. Stop playing naive. People have said repeatedly that us as fans want Bosa. No one is saying the team should have tanked. Lol KS damn you for doing well fire him

Winning clearly isn't always a good thing. Tell that to the chargers fans who drafted Ryan Leaf instead of Peyton Manning.

The book on Ryan Leaf was that he had a higher ceiling than Manning, while Manning was more NFL ready. Analysts were pretty evenly split, so I don't think anyone could say San Diego wouldn't have gone that way if they did pick first.

George Kittle was a fifth round pick, but if we had picked him first overall, I don't know that we'd be crying.

Here's the fact of the matter. The long history of the NFL proves that consistently picking high does not make you a good team, and consistently picking low does not make you a winner. The reality is that the Front Offices that do the most with their low picks manage to stay competetive, and those that don't have a good batting average with their picks, don't. Bottom line, pick your pickers well. And since nobody builds much of their roster with top 10 picks, making mid round picks into great players is how you build champions.

In 1986, Bill Walsh traded Down numerous times to land Larrry Roberts, Tom Rathman, Tim McKyer, John Taylor, Charles Haley, Steve Wallace, Kevin f*gan, and Don Griffin, none of which were first round picks. That's how you win Super Bowls. That, and being a winner free agents want to join. It's best to look like a winner, not a bumbler.
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