System or talent

To make the playoffs: system.
To win the Superbowl: both.

Great talent with crap coaching will get you Jeff Fisher seasons.

Originally posted by ChazBoner:

offense, system. Defense, talent.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by ChazBoner:

offense, system. Defense, talent.

agreed

Originally posted by ChazBoner:
offense, system. Defense, talent.

+1

This goes back IMO to Walsh. That said you need talent at certain spots like LT and QB.

In order to be system guy ,.you have to learn ..talent is talent ..and some of these so called system guys are garbage ..example jimmy g ..do we run the same system as New England ?....to me no but he has talent ..and let's be honest who on offense scares you .besides goodwin with his speed ...nobody he was lucky to have a dominant wr at his previous regime...

Originally posted by 15crabtree:
In order to be system guy ,.you have to learn ..talent is talent ..and some of these so called system guys are garbage ..example jimmy g ..do we run the same system as New England ?....to me no but he has talent ..and let's be honest who on offense scares you .besides goodwin with his speed ...nobody he was lucky to have a dominant wr at his previous regime...

In order to be an NFL guy you have to learn.
There has to be synergy between the players that are acquired. Can't have a RB that lives to pound it up the middle but have a bunch of agile OLmen that are fitted to run outside zone. Can't have a great deep ball thrower and pair him up with a bunch of possession WRs.

Like someone above said, really good players fit all systems - get in line for those really good players because every team wants them. When drafting on day 3, those 'fit all systems' type of prospects are gone and it's good to hone in on certain skillsets that fit what the team is trying to accomplish.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 15crabtree:

In order to be system guy ,.you have to learn ..talent is talent ..and some of these so called system guys are garbage ..example jimmy g ..do we run the same system as New England ?....to me no but he has talent ..and let's be honest who on offense scares you .besides goodwin with his speed ...nobody he was lucky to have a dominant wr at his previous regime...

In order to be an NFL guy you have to learn.
There has to be synergy between the players that are acquired. Can't have a RB that lives to pound it up the middle but have a bunch of agile OLmen that are fitted to run outside zone. Can't have a great deep ball thrower and pair him up with a bunch of possession WRs.

Like someone above said, really good players fit all systems - get in line for those really good players because every team wants them. When drafting on day 3, those 'fit all systems' type of prospects are gone and it's good to hone in on certain skillsets that fit what the team is trying to accomplish.

Year two of a rebuild in a league where 31 other teams want the best/system player as well. Gonna take a little time to hit everything (and even that won't happen).

The best coaches can adapt their game to the more talented players they have. Its nearly impossible fill every position with guys who fit the system. Especially when the owers fire coaches on average every few years.

so is it fair to say lynchbaalke.did not do a fair assessment on pass rushers in in the draft and also doing a reach on 2 offensive players such as C.J. and pettis .the juror is still out on pettis.but C.J. looks like a scared rookie but he is a system guy ..I know Mullen is playing against 3rd 4th stringers .he looks like a system guy

Originally posted by 15crabtree:
so is it fair to say lynchbaalke.did not do a fair assessment on pass rushers in in the draft and also doing a reach on 2 offensive players such as C.J. and pettis .the juror is still out on pettis.but C.J. looks like a scared rookie but he is a system guy ..I know Mullen is playing against 3rd 4th stringers .he looks like a system guy

Two basic types of pass rushers in my opinion, speed and power. For the most part, pass rushers fit into one of the two and are also a combination of both and range between the two types. Best pass rushers have *both* power and speed. Chris Dolman, Strahan, Reggie White, Aldon Smith in his prime - for example. From a system point of view, these elite guys can fit into pretty much any defensive scheme (4-3; 3-4; wide 9; eagle etc...) The Seifert/Carroll system seems to operate better with undersized speed rushers - and not so much Big End power type pass rushers. There were several *system fit* edge rushers in the draft that ShanaLynch didn't try for - Landry, Arden Key, etc... Not faulting them for, it McGlinchy, Pettis and Warner are solid draft picks that will make the team and help the team for sure.

Good DC's and D Line coaches can spot undrafted talent, like Tomsula, Buddy Ryan, Dungey - Tomsula spotted Ian Williams and Demarcus Dobbs (both undrafted) but that takes years of experience to do so. Unfortunately, Kyle was hired late and we couldn't get an experienced DC and Saleh doesn't have the experience to spot those diamonds in the rough, like Kyle can on offense (because of Kyle's extensive offensive experience) I think they've done well getting diamond in the rough DB's because of Lynch. But I think that's where Saleh's inexperience hurts in getting proper LEO players - is in the lower rounds where more experienced DC's can spot system fit players a lot better than inexperienced DC's.

Originally posted by 15crabtree:
In order to be system guy ,.you have to learn ..talent is talent ..and some of these so called system guys are garbage ..example jimmy g ..do we run the same system as New England ?....to me no but he has talent ..and let's be honest who on offense scares you .besides goodwin with his speed ...nobody he was lucky to have a dominant wr at his previous regime...

I mean Cordell Patterson has talent BUT that doesn't mean s**t if he can't understand the system he's in. I think you put WAY too much stock in talent, especially at the WR position (which you seem to keep referring to) The WR position is the most dependent position in the NFL IMO. Good schemes and QB play can make or break a WR regardless if he's got talent.

you don't need stud WRs if you have a scheme that get's players open and you have a good QB. Go look at New Orleans, New England, Pittsburgh....you honestly think they just keep drafting all these amazing talents at WR OR they simply find WRs who's skill set fits the scheme and have stud QBs?

Originally posted by 15crabtree:
so is it fair to say lynchbaalke.did not do a fair assessment on pass rushers in in the draft and also doing a reach on 2 offensive players such as C.J. and pettis .the juror is still out on pettis.but C.J. looks like a scared rookie but he is a system guy ..I know Mullen is playing against 3rd 4th stringers .he looks like a system guy

No it is not fair to say that....why is Pettis a reach? Why did they not do a fiar assessment on pass rusher in this past draft? We haven't even seen a single rookie rusher take any meaningful snaps yet lol.

What happens if they draft class ends up having a bunch of s**t as far as pass rushers go?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 15crabtree:
so is it fair to say lynchbaalke.did not do a fair assessment on pass rushers in in the draft and also doing a reach on 2 offensive players such as C.J. and pettis .the juror is still out on pettis.but C.J. looks like a scared rookie but he is a system guy ..I know Mullen is playing against 3rd 4th stringers .he looks like a system guy

No it is not fair to say that....why is Pettis a reach? Why did they not do a fiar assessment on pass rusher in this past draft? We haven't even seen a single rookie rusher take any meaningful snaps yet lol.

What happens if they draft class ends up having a bunch of s**t as far as pass rushers go?

we could have had Landry and Pettis this year.

really hope that McGlinchey blows me away and becomes the next Joe Staley. Otherwise......damn.

Originally posted by 15crabtree:
so is it fair to say lynchbaalke.did not do a fair assessment on pass rushers in in the draft and also doing a reach on 2 offensive players such as C.J. and pettis .the juror is still out on pettis.but C.J. looks like a scared rookie but he is a system guy ..I know Mullen is playing against 3rd 4th stringers .he looks like a system guy

I agree Beathard was a selection based on the system he played in college. Kyle saw his intangibles, the type of responsibilities he was given in his college offense, and thought he could work with that without having to teach a college kid how to dropback from under center, or how to call run game audibles at the line scrimmage - things CJ did in college.

I hope you don't think being a 'system guy' is a bad thing. Most players aren't good enough to fit in any system. Kyle has a specific idea of how he wants his offense to operate. You could say that good coaches adapt to whatever personnel they have, and that's partially true. For example, we saw Kyle run more inside zone than usual because he had Hyde, Tomlinson, and Fusco up the middle last season. But a coach shouldn't deviate far from what he believes in. Every coach has their system. The system they believe they are good at coaching.