System or talent

I am curious to understand for some reason in the past 2 drafts we only get system guys compared to talent .i give Kyle his card for coaching but I thought a coach can coach .we have no rb or. seeing talent being pass because they are not system is not gonna cut it .i notice on the board when it comes to free agents or draftee well he is a guy who knows the system .so would you rather a system player who is garbage ..,or a talent who can learn the system ?

Kyle wants to run his offense and he doesn't care what the talent is. See the Trent Brown trade as an example.

As for what I'd pick. I dunno. I am not a coach. But seeing as how Tom Brady is a system QB, I guess it is a step in the right direction

It's not so much 'system', as it is 'skillset'. A WR that can get separation using agility fits any system. RBs that can catch and move in space fits a system that throws to RBs in space. Can you give examples of these garbage players that Kyle thinks are system fits?
When it comes to the defensive side, there are multiple examples of drafting for skillset and not because the player played in a similar defensive system - Spoon, Moore, Warner - are all guys that are projected to do well in this defensive system, but very little of their tape from college has them doing what they'll be doing for the 49ers.

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
Kyle wants to run his offense and he doesn't care what the talent is. See the Trent Brown trade as an example.

As for what I'd pick. I dunno. I am not a coach. But seeing as how Tom Brady is a system QB, I guess it is a step in the right direction

Going off some elements in this post...

Patriots get system players and it works for them. Occasionally they get really talented players and that works out, then sometimes talented players just can't handle the system (Ochocinco)

So..... I'll say system players work, and hope the coaches get them right.

offense, system. Defense, talent.

Originally posted by 15crabtree:
I am curious to understand for some reason in the past 2 drafts we only get system guys compared to talent .i give Kyle his card for coaching but I thought a coach can coach .we have no rb or. seeing talent being pass because they are not system is not gonna cut it .i notice on the board when it comes to free agents or draftee well he is a guy who knows the system .so would you rather a system player who is garbage ..,or a talent who can learn the system ?

IF they don't fit the system then talent doesn't matter. Carlos Hyde is talented, but he didn't fit the system...Just because they didn't draft the guys you wanted doesn't make them "less" talented.

Every GM/HC has a system or type of player they want. mike iupati was a talent AND a scheme fit for what Harbs wanted to run. In Kyle's scheme he wouldn't work.

Also I have no idea who you're referring to when it comes to passing on talent? Thomas was regarded as a top 5 talent in the draft, MM was the best overall OT in the draft. Pettis was regarded as one of the best route-runners in the draft etc...

As far as RB goes, Kyle NEEDS a pass catching back to run his offense fully. That's the reason SF hired him in the first place was to implement his scheme (which has been successful just about everywhere he's been) McKinnon give's Kyle freedom in regards to play-calling...why would you not what that??

Originally posted by ChazBoner:
offense, system. Defense, talent.

agreed

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by ChazBoner:
offense, system. Defense, talent.

agreed

most NFL coaches have to coach a certain way and need certain talent to be successful. very few coaches can scheme around their players strengths. most of the time that is a bad thing, that's why you only have a handful of coaches in the NFL who are really good. that's not saying KS is a bad coach, his system can be very good so there's a reason for getting players that fit it. just like Walsh with the WC offense.

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

Kyle wants to run his offense and he doesn't care what the talent is. See the Trent Brown trade as an example.

Trent Brown can't run block

Originally posted by ChazBoner:

offense, system. Defense, talent.

Correct

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
most NFL coaches have to coach a certain way and need certain talent to be successful. very few coaches can scheme around their players strengths. most of the time that is a bad thing, that's why you only have a handful of coaches in the NFL who are really good. that's not saying KS is a bad coach, his system can be very good so there's a reason for getting players that fit it. just like Walsh with the WC offense.

I think a perfect example was Hyde last yr...clearly not a fit for WCO and outside zone running. Yet he was near 1K in rushing yards and had more receiving yards then he had the previous 3 yrs combined.

Great thing is Shanny/Lynch have long contract (and a lot of cap space) to be able to build the team correctly (in their vision). Not many coaches get that.
I think we as fans are expecting the moon this yr and realistically we have another yr to make a real run at it (long-term runs not the Rams bust a nut once for the SB).

Originally posted by thl408:

It's not so much 'system', as it is 'skillset'. A WR that can get separation using agility fits any system. RBs that can catch and move in space fits a system that throws to RBs in space. Can you give examples of these garbage players that Kyle thinks are system fits?
When it comes to the defensive side, there are multiple examples of drafting for skillset and not because the player played in a similar defensive system - Spoon, Moore, Warner - are all guys that are projected to do well in this defensive system, but very little of their tape from college has them doing what they'll be doing for the 49ers.

This. Smart organizations find the most talented players who have the skillset to play in their respective schemes. Dumb organizations will draft players regardless of fit.


OP has long stated his preference for BIG wide receivers. Shanahan first and foremost looks for wide receivers who run clean routes and can consistently get open, regardless of size. As a result, the 49ers don't end up with BIG wide receivers because guys like Julio Jones who can run routes like much smaller receivers are the exception and not the norm.



You don't draft guys and hope they can learn a skillset that they don't currently possess.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
most NFL coaches have to coach a certain way and need certain talent to be successful. very few coaches can scheme around their players strengths. most of the time that is a bad thing, that's why you only have a handful of coaches in the NFL who are really good. that's not saying KS is a bad coach, his system can be very good so there's a reason for getting players that fit it. just like Walsh with the WC offense.

I think a perfect example was Hyde last yr...clearly not a fit for WCO and outside zone running. Yet he was near 1K in rushing yards and had more receiving yards then he had the previous 3 yrs combined.

Great thing is Shanny/Lynch have long contract (and a lot of cap space) to be able to build the team correctly (in their vision). Not many coaches get that.
I think we as fans are expecting the moon this yr and realistically we have another yr to make a real run at it (long-term runs not the Rams bust a nut once for the SB).

there are only a few great great players in the nfl who can transend any coaching style or scheme. most players have to be fortunate enough to get in the right situation that suits their style of play. a player like Julio jones would fit in any scheme, but how many Julio jones are in the world? part of kyle's genius is that he is able to recognize the type of talent that will fit his style of coaching. if you land an all time player that's great. but most of them are just good players who excel in the right situation.

The QB

It changes from coach to coach. Tom Landry was a total system guy. He coached and recruited mainly for system fit guys but that was also part of his downfall in Dallas was that hewas thought to have failed to coach around his players skills.

BW was a system guy. Pete Carrol is system on defense and talent on offense. Bruce Arians was a talent guy and Kubiak was later in DEN.

because of Jerry jones dal has been talent