Draft summary

Originally posted by NCommand:
^ Really nice post Karma!

+2

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Nobody liked taking a top fifty athlete at number 9. We only get a couple of these every 7 or 8 years.it would be nice to get a top ten athlete.

Who did you want there?

minkah, poo rashaan wynn hernandez maybe take a qb and hold someone hostage.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yeah, I was in the same mindset that if you couldn't get Landry, and we could have, just cash it in on LEO. In a quote from Shanahan, they had to ask themselves, can this guy beat out Cassius Marsh? Perhaps they are too high on Cassius and Attaochu? But I also feel they dropped the ball on targeting the SAM for an upgrade too. There were several players like Ogbonnia Okoronkwo, Lorenzo Carter, Uchenna Nwosu, Kemoko Turay, Chad Thomas or Dorance Armstrong (all players we met with) who could have been massive upgrades over the Eli Harold+Elvis Dumervil combo we had last year.

They flat out ignored both edge positions and it clearly, was our biggest need coming into the draft.

Speaking of Dumervil, Saleh only used him on 3rd downs and he netted 6.5 sacks for us. He's gone now, so objectively, did this unit get better, worse or stay the same?

Either way, it looks like we'll be using Thomas again on the first two downs at LEO and Marsh+Attaochu on 3rd downs.

Even if that combo is more effective than the 3rd down package of Dumervil+Marsh from last year, how much of an improvement can we expect from the 30 team sacks we had last year?

I think you are right on the money with that assessment. I do think they overvalued Cassius and Attaochu and undervalued the entire edge rusher class in this years draft. That's the only way I can read it, having the draft go that way. Now will that hurt us this year? Not too much, I hope. We beat two playoff teams, I think, with lesser personnel last year. I think the O Line is dramatically improved, the RB, the depth at WR, and defensive back has more depth and skill, and Sherman coaching the players, they are going to be learning very rapidly. Overall, I think we can score on most, if not all NFL defenses. I think there is enough of a pass rush that can slow the other teams passing down, assuming Attaochu stays healthy. I think Cassius can contribute what Elvis did (6-ish sacks) and am clueless what Attaochu can do. I think the game plan next year is to move up in the draft and get a true elite edge rusher considering if everything goes well, any draftees after the 4th round are going to have a lot of difficulty making the team. At least that's my hope.

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

So the team didn't address all of the needs I, or the professional "draft experts" identified.

What that means, we are not as close to the team, and don't know it's plans or needs as well as they do.

I wanted an edge rusher, offensive linemen, a running back, and big bodied red zone receiver. One out of four...not my best year.

I love the depth we suddenly have at defensive back, a huge weakness last season.

I'm pleased we have a heir apparent to Joe.

I'm still concerned about our lack of size at running back, and our lack of edge pressure.

I will say this, interior pass rush is the new edge rush. Let's hope we can get pressure up the gut.

The more I think about Pettis the more I like the pick. Taylor is our slot guy, and our third down guy. Now he has a back up. Garçon is old, and may need a breather now and then, now he has a back up. Taylor is a gutsy sure handed punt returner, now we don't have to worry about hm getting creamed on a punt return, that's not his job anymore.

Edge rusher, still a glaring need, with nonsure fire guy in the draft in the second roomd, we will have to watch the waiver wire like hawks, for the next Elvis "one and done" Dumerville.

So, unlike the experts, and whiners, I'm not going to down grade this draft because I didn't understand the teams needs.

So let's go over what the Niners got over the weekend and how you are interpreting the results:

1) Depth in the secondary. Sounds good on the surface, but the thing that usually makes a secondary look it's best is a pass rush. The Niners drafted an athletic FS who they hope can play CB, a slot CB who can return kicks, and a SS coming off a torn Achilles. Doesn't sound like any sure things to me.

2) They traded up for Pettis who is right now a potential replacement for our slot receiver at best in year one. Unless he can bulk up and show he's a good Z or X, trading up for him was a waste of resources.

3) Did the Niners get an heir apparent for Joe Staley? No, they didn't. McGlinchey is a great run blocker but has big problems against speed rushers (see his game against Miami last year). We have a replacement at RT, not anything more than that. Not to mention at pick #9. Once Roquan was gone, the Niners could have flipped that pick for at least 2 picks.

4) An interior pass rush that doesn't lead to sacks isn't enough. Buckner was one of the league leaders in pressures, not sacks. Not having an edge rusher to complete the package is a killer.

I am still a lifelong fan and hope to God I am wrong about this, but I'm just calling it like I see it. The front office could have done better.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

minkah, poo rashaan wynn hernandez maybe take a qb and hold someone hostage.

McGlinchey was rated higher than Wynn and Hernandez by many. Dont see the need for Derwin. Maybe Fitz though but guess they didnt see valur in him.

mayock ranked pettis at 70. 6 receivers ahead of him. Mcg ranked #8 overall #1 tackle.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Yeah, I was in the same mindset that if you couldn't get Landry, and we could have, just cash it in on LEO. In a quote from Shanahan, they had to ask themselves, can this guy beat out Cassius Marsh? Perhaps they are too high on Cassius and Attaochu? But I also feel they dropped the ball on targeting the SAM for an upgrade too. There were several players like Ogbonnia Okoronkwo, Lorenzo Carter, Uchenna Nwosu, Kemoko Turay, Chad Thomas or Dorance Armstrong (all players we met with) who could have been massive upgrades over the Eli Harold+Elvis Dumervil combo we had last year.

They flat out ignored both edge positions and it clearly, was our biggest need coming into the draft.

Speaking of Dumervil, Saleh only used him on 3rd downs and he netted 6.5 sacks for us. He's gone now, so objectively, did this unit get better, worse or stay the same?

Either way, it looks like we'll be using Thomas again on the first two downs at LEO and Marsh+Attaochu on 3rd downs.

Even if that combo is more effective than the 3rd down package of Dumervil+Marsh from last year, how much of an improvement can we expect from the 30 team sacks we had last year?

Well we probably got slightly worse or about the same. Either way this FO doesn't think we have issues with ER.

They're looking at the analytics and seeing that we're racking up a lot of QB pressures and not converting those to sacks. So they want to beef up the secondary to give the DL slightly more time to get to the backfield. I don't agree with it, but it is what it is. They only have themselves to blame if we're still below average on defense this year

Originally posted by m_brockalexander:

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
So the team didn't address all of the needs I, or the professional "draft experts" identified.

What that means, we are not as close to the team, and don't know it's plans or needs as well as they do.

I wanted an edge rusher, offensive linemen, a running back, and big bodied red zone receiver. One out of four...not my best year.

I love the depth we suddenly have at defensive back, a huge weakness last season.

I'm pleased we have a heir apparent to Joe.

I'm still concerned about our lack of size at running back, and our lack of edge pressure.

I will say this, interior pass rush is the new edge rush. Let's hope we can get pressure up the gut.

The more I think about Pettis the more I like the pick. Taylor is our slot guy, and our third down guy. Now he has a back up. Garçon is old, and may need a breather now and then, now he has a back up. Taylor is a gutsy sure handed punt returner, now we don't have to worry about hm getting creamed on a punt return, that's not his job anymore.

Edge rusher, still a glaring need, with nonsure fire guy in the draft in the second roomd, we will have to watch the waiver wire like hawks, for the next Elvis "one and done" Dumerville.

So, unlike the experts, and whiners, I'm not going to down grade this draft because I didn't understand the teams needs.

So let's go over what the Niners got over the weekend and how you are interpreting the results:

1) Depth in the secondary. Sounds good on the surface, but the thing that usually makes a secondary look it's best is a pass rush. The Niners drafted an athletic FS who they hope can play CB, a slot CB who can return kicks, and a SS coming off a torn Achilles. Doesn't sound like any sure things to me.

2) They traded up for Pettis who is right now a potential replacement for our slot receiver at best in year one. Unless he can bulk up and show he's a good Z or X, trading up for him was a waste of resources.

3) Did the Niners get an heir apparent for Joe Staley? No, they didn't. McGlinchey is a great run blocker but has big problems against speed rushers (see his game against Miami last year). We have a replacement at RT, not anything more than that. Not to mention at pick #9. Once Roquan was gone, the Niners could have flipped that pick for at least 2 picks.

4) An interior pass rush that doesn't lead to sacks isn't enough. Buckner was one of the league leaders in pressures, not sacks. Not having an edge rusher to complete the package is a killer.

I am still a lifelong fan and hope to God I am wrong about this, but I'm just calling it like I see it. The front office could have done better.

I think your dead wrong onPettis, his floor is a back up at all three positions, and a great punt returner. His ceiling is a tp notch threat as a z or a slot, go watch the film on this guy, he like 7/11. always open, even when no targeted.

Depth at a position of weakness, the secondary, means pressure to proof on under preforming often "injured" softies on our roster, and more likely means the door for members of the boo boo brigade.

McGlinchey, was the top tackle in the draft......I let you think on that, while you ponder your critique, his mobility in the run game, will help as Kyle moves the pocket in the passing game, next years offense will bear little resemblance to what we saw last year. We will be mobile, and active up front.

My biggest concern was edge rusher, apparently the coaching staff felt differently, as for interior push, that and coverage makes sacks happen, as well as any edge rush.

Im still waiting to see a more powerful running back, and may never see one, it might just be, we are all in on speed and mobility.

You sound like the "mock draft experts" like Kyper, you down grade the coaches, and general manger for having a different view of the roster and team needs. Maybe, just maybe, Lynch has a better view of things then we do.

Originally posted by Giedi:
I think you are right on the money with that assessment. I do think they overvalued Cassius and Attaochu and undervalued the entire edge rusher class in this years draft. That's the only way I can read it, having the draft go that way. Now will that hurt us this year? Not too much, I hope. We beat two playoff teams, I think, with lesser personnel last year. I think the O Line is dramatically improved, the RB, the depth at WR, and defensive back has more depth and skill, and Sherman coaching the players, they are going to be learning very rapidly. Overall, I think we can score on most, if not all NFL defenses. I think there is enough of a pass rush that can slow the other teams passing down, assuming Attaochu stays healthy. I think Cassius can contribute what Elvis did (6-ish sacks) and am clueless what Attaochu can do. I think the game plan next year is to move up in the draft and get a true elite edge rusher considering if everything goes well, any draftees after the 4th round are going to have a lot of difficulty making the team. At least that's my hope.

All good points. When Kyle was describing how we have 8-9 good DL and noting that if we bring a guy in, a good DL will have to get cut. The problem is, he's not looking at the DL like he does the offense. The Big End is a different skill set than the NT, than the 3T and finally, the Elephant. All 4 of those spots require very unique skill sets. We're certainly set at 3 of those 4 but that allusive 4th is what makes the entire unit go and allows guys like Thomas to play where he should be (and not at Elephant). It's no different than the WR positions...the X is unique from the Y from the Z with flexibility among them.

I certainly understand his stance that there is no point in bringing in a guy if you don't think there is any chance he could legitimately beat out a current starter.

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
Well we probably got slightly worse or about the same. Either way this FO doesn't think we have issues with ER.

They're looking at the analytics and seeing that we're racking up a lot of QB pressures and not converting those to sacks. So they want to beef up the secondary to give the DL slightly more time to get to the backfield. I don't agree with it, but it is what it is. They only have themselves to blame if we're still below average on defense this year

Exactly. And great point about the analytics potentially, playing into their thought process. Hey, we were tops in QB pressures and we got younger at LEO and this is year 2 in the system...maybe with a more talented secondary, we'll start to convert those pressures into sacks.

You last line there sums it up for me. It's a risk not to address either ER position.

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
I think your dead wrong onPettis, his floor is a back up at all three positions, and a great punt returner. His ceiling is a tp notch threat as a z or a slot, go watch the film on this guy, he like 7/11. always open, even when no targeted.

Depth at a position of weakness, the secondary, means pressure to proof on under preforming often "injured" softies on our roster, and more likely means the door for members of the boo boo brigade.

McGlinchey, was the top tackle in the draft......I let you think on that, while you ponder your critique, his mobility in the run game, will help as Kyle moves the pocket in the passing game, next years offense will bear little resemblance to what we saw last year. We will be mobile, and active up front.

My biggest concern was edge rusher, apparently the coaching staff felt differently, as for interior push, that and coverage makes sacks happen, as well as any edge rush.

Im still waiting to see a more powerful running back, and may never see one, it might just be, we are all in on speed and mobility.

You sound like the "mock draft experts" like Kyper, you down grade the coaches, and general manger for having a different view of the roster and team needs. Maybe, just maybe, Lynch has a better view of things then we do.

Agree! When you have a definite need like edge, it doesn't do any good to bring in several more mediocre guys. You need a special guy and if he's not there...punt...and take BPA.

Chubb was the consensus best DE and was long gone by pick #9. No one has come up with a name of that sure thing edge player they should have taken. If they do we can at least give them credit when proven correct. Landry went a full round below in the second round. Even though the niners traded up for Pettis, they would have had to give up more to get Landry. They could have taken Nwosu but obviously did not value him more than Pettis.

Now if they hadn't made the mistake of giving up a second rounder for Garoppolo......they could have had Pettis and an edge--Nwosu or Turay!

Good teams don't have sexy drafts. Ours needed to be solid, which it was. The really bad teams had the splashy drafts because they needed to or people would lose their jobs.

Last year's draft was aggressive because we were at rock bottom. We're no longer rebuilding. We're at the beginning stages of loading up for a SB run.

I think it's important to look at the whole draft before evaluating (including UDFAs).

While the team is better quality than it was 12 months ago so UDFAs will have a harder job making the team - the team has shown a real willingness to give UDFAs a chance.

I think you can pretty much interchange late round picks with UDFAs - it's a training camp shootout to see who makes the squad. While not the same style of player, the likes of WR Dunbar will compete with 7th Round WR James for a spot on the 53 man roster.

In particular there are 3 UDFAs that the 49ers met with during the draft process and that were mocked to the 49ers in a heap of mock drafts (RB Wilson, CB McFadden and TE Dwelley). What's also interesting about those 3 are different to any of the drafted players selected by the 49ers Rounds 1 - 7 (there were no running backs taken, no tight ends taken, and no big corners with corner experience taken).

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

I think your dead wrong onPettis, his floor is a back up at all three positions, and a great punt returner. His ceiling is a tp notch threat as a z or a slot, go watch the film on this guy, he like 7/11. always open, even when no targeted.

Depth at a position of weakness, the secondary, means pressure to proof on under preforming often "injured" softies on our roster, and more likely means the door for members of the boo boo brigade.

McGlinchey, was the top tackle in the draft......I let you think on that, while you ponder your critique, his mobility in the run game, will help as Kyle moves the pocket in the passing game, next years offense will bear little resemblance to what we saw last year. We will be mobile, and active up front.

My biggest concern was edge rusher, apparently the coaching staff felt differently, as for interior push, that and coverage makes sacks happen, as well as any edge rush.

Im still waiting to see a more powerful running back, and may never see one, it might just be, we are all in on speed and mobility.

You sound like the "mock draft experts" like Kyper, you down grade the coaches, and general manger for having a different view of the roster and team needs. Maybe, just maybe, Lynch has a better view of things then we do.

Agree! When you have a definite need like edge, it doesn't do any good to bring in several more mediocre guys. You need a special guy and if he's not there...punt...and take BPA.

Chubb was the consensus best DE and was long gone by pick #9. No one has come up with a name of that sure thing edge player they should have taken. If they do we can at least give them credit when proven correct. Landry went a full round below in the second round. Even though the niners traded up for Pettis, they would have had to give up more to get Landry. They could have taken Nwosu but obviously did not value him more than Pettis.


Now if they hadn't made the mistake of giving up a second rounder for Garoppolo......they could have had Pettis and an edge--Nwosu or Turay!

Yeah, it seems like people are taking out their misdiagnosis of team needs, the roster, and the available talent, out on Jon Lynch.

Jon has done a pretty good job so far, let's see him actually fail on the field before we burn him in effigy in the parking lot!

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Nobody liked taking a top fifty athlete at number 9. We only get a couple of these every 7 or 8 years.it would be nice to get a top ten athlete.

Who did you want there?

minkah, poo rashaan wynn hernandez maybe take a qb and hold someone hostage.

Minkah would've been a solid pick no doubt but when the dust settled we're a better team with McGlinchey after trading Trent than we would be if we just took Minkah.

I'm not going to sit here and say I loved the pick. I'm on record on being good with pretty much whatever we do at #9 outside of drafting Arden Key or an OT lol...

But that was also under the assumption Trent Brown was going to be on this roster. Coaches saw a guy who wasn't a fit so I'm not going to argue with Kyle on that one.

The fact that Oakland picking right after us wanted him means the value wasn't as bad as I thought. And also clearly the guy I wanted the most at #9 went all the way down to #41 so the value there would've been really bad knowing what we know now.

I had a top 5 of

Landry
Smith

Nelson

Ward
Fitzpatrick.

Soon as Denver took Chubb I knew we were in bad shape.

Maybe it's the optimist in me but when I step back and look at this draft and what happened during/after it then it looks much better than it did as the picks were coming in.

We got Kyle the players HE wanted. We took a step forward to protecting Jimmy and getting a guy out there who can improve our offense(hopefully) and added another playmaker who can also help on special teams and make things easier for the offense(hopefully)

The defense is what scares me a bit. Pass rush was the clear #1 need for this team and not seeing us take an edge rusher or even really sign one as an undrafted free agent is shocking to me.

I guess the coaches want to see what the guys we have can do with a hopefully improved secondary(that's where they put all their chips)

One thing I know is this front office isn't buying the hype yet and putting all their eggs in one basket like the Rams did. We have a tough schedule ahead of us. AFC West and NFC North are tough matchups schedule wise with the improvements each team has made.

Next year's pass rush class looks much better on paper. They may be holding back to see what the guys we have can do with an improved secondary and hopefully more obvious pass situations with the offense scoring a lot more points/getting us a lot more leads and if it's still an issue going all in with the pass rush class next year.

Whatever it is...i hope it works out.

I'm excited for this season but tapering my expectations as I don't think our defense will be good enough yet and we'll have to win a lot of shootouts...just wish the Foster situations wasn't a black cloud over the team. Hopefully that's sorted out today for the better.

Also this training camp will be super fun to follow especially for the WR and DB competition.

Originally posted by 9moon:
sorry guys, especially to NY, but no way this draft deserves an A !!!

Lets all be honest here... Glaring needs we have, were they filled??

Does this draft class looks like it can get us over the hump????

Sure Jimmy played superb last year and he gave us hope... but bottom line is, he's still a very much UN-PROVEN!!!

Nothing great was done from this draft aside the fact that we now have ROOKIES who are similar type of players we already have on the team..

IF THIS WAS BAALKE'S DRAFT, WE ALL BE CALLING FOR HIS HEAD!!!

I didn't give it an A that was from Rotoworld, not me.

I gave it a B- and you HAVE to throw Jimmy G into this because it was a draft pick from 2018.

• I think we upgraded the secondary a ton. Moore/Reed/McFadden can all be starters for us at one point.
• They locked down the best tackle in the draft, kid is plug and play. Is he a pro-bowler? I don't think so, but if he can be a solid starter for us into his second contract I can live with it (wasn't who I wanted but such is life).
• Warner IMO was a top 5 off-ball LBer and a perfect scheme fit. He was a draft crush and I'm happy we got him.
• Big fan of Pettis, not sure we had to move up, but if that's who the wanted is what it is.
• most of my issues come from the day 3 picks overall. Streets pick was by far the most frustrating of the whole draft. I think he's a sold player BUT I don't think he's a true edge rusher (will take over for AA) and the ACL? god damn I hate it. Also not a fan of the S and WR picks.
• We didn't take care of what I thought was the biggest issue on this team at EDGE and I don't buy the we couldn't find someone to beat out Marsh BS