49ers take Tarvarius Moore-DB-Southern Mississippi

Initial reactions on a pick are usually more accurate. If you're going, "who" in an earlier round, it's probably a dud. Never let a pick grow on you.

Out of about 300 picks, about 270 of them will be nothing of note. Try looking at past drafts and see all the junk in them, and try to remember all the hype.

The reality is, you're lucky if ONE of your picks out of 7-11 of them becomes a very good starter.

Just think about this 2000 49ers draft class. Here's my memory of how our fan base thought of them:

Julian Peterson: Great athlete who reminds me of Charles Haley. (Very good but overrated player who wanted ridiculous money. Finesse guy whose production as a pass rusher would come on true blitzes instead of from a 3 point stance, despite playing DE in college. 6 seasons in SF, injured in most of one and mediocre in the last)

Ahmed Plummer: Smart and a great kid. Will be a very good corner for years to come! (Basically a bust. Showed some flashes of good play in 2001 and then was so bad he got benched against the Giants in the playoffs in 02-03 after making Amani Toomer look all-world, Antonio Langham vs. Keyshawn 1998 style. Then the injuries finished off a guy who was never a good starter to begin with).

John Engelberger: I've heard comparisons to Pierce Holt! If so, he's going to be a really solid player. (Holt comparisons laughable. He was an edge guy, not an interior lineman. Weak against the run, could only sack the QB on a fluke play where he just ran straight around the tackle, which he would do maybe 4 times per year. Not a starting-caliber player in the NFL. 5 lousy seasons and done in SF.).

Jason Webster: Another smart corner and a great kid! (Couldn't play the ball. He was actually a better man cover guy than Plummer, but he could be right there and the ball was completed anyway. A few years of mediocre play and done).

Giovanni Carmazzi: Our QBOTF! Smart and Italian like Mariucci! Mobile, good arm, accurate. (Deer in the headlights in preseason. Awful. Not an NFL caliber QB. Didn't make the roster his second year).

Jeff Ulbrich: Super-productive and great football intelligence! (Mediocre starter who lacked athleticism. Injuries finished him off).

John Keith: Big hitter! Might be our new starting SS! (He could hit, sure, but too athletically limited to start long-term. Injuries ended him almost before it even began).

Paul Smith: Might be a sleeper. Can play FB and RB. Special teams ace! (3 years of special teams fodder)

John Milem: 15 sacks! Maybe we found a small school steal! (Total dud who basically never played)

Tim Rattay: If Carmazzi doesn't work out for some reason, he's the QBOTF. College record setter! Walsh traded up in the 7th to get him, so he saw something he liked! (I liked him and wish they would have treated him like he was a first round pick and tried to coach him up, but they never do with late round guys. Needed major work on his pocket presence and decision making, and was injury prone. Few years of backup and brief moments of trying to be a starter, but injuries and inconsistency ended it abruptly).

Brian Jennings: I hear he's a really good long-snapper! (OK, he was a really good long snapper, for whatever that was worth).

And here's the 2001 draft. Remember, it was Bill Walsh doing these:

Andre Carter: Awesome pick. We've got our pass rusher, folks! Son of Rubin Carter. The most technically advanced college DE they've ever seen. He'll be a Pro Bowler. (Disappointment. Lacked the elite speed off the edge or the power to bull rush. Injuries, up and down production to where he had a few good sack total seasons, but was never really a force as a pass rusher in general, and out of SF after 5 seasons).

Jamie Winborn: The next Derrick Brooks! GREAT SPEED and playmaking ability! Future star. (Nolan threw him under the bus like the POS he is, but he was another walking injury. More quick than fast, lousy in coverage, and though a big hitter and really aggressive, not a consistent enough tackler. Out of SF after a little over 4 seasons).

Kevan Barlow: Mike Shanahan said he was the best RB in the draft! (He showed talent in his first 3 seasons in SF, but once given the full-time job in his 4th season, utterly flopped...turned into one of the worst RBs you'll see and was outperformed by UDFA Maurice Hicks, and of course, Frank Gore. Out of SF after 5 seasons, only 3 of them good, when he was splitting carries with Garrison Hearst)

Cedrick Wilson: He has speed! They got a 4.4 range 40-time on him! (Just a run-of-the-mill depth receiver who lacked speed. Good blocker is about the best you can say of him).

Rashad Holman: Don't remember. (Did nothing. 3 years of nickel and done).

Menson Holloway: Don't remember. (Didn't make team).

Alex Lincoln: Don't remember. (Didn't make team).

Eric Johnson: Walsh said he's the next Brent Jones! (Mediocre dumpoff/outlet tight end and a mediocre blocker. Jones was an overrated player himself, but in his peak athletic years, he could get deep in the seems and make some plays down field or after the catch. Johnson was a stiff who did neither).

Moral of the story: Temper the enthusiasm if you want to be remotely realistic.
^^^ dang real talk is real.
My man went back 18 years to prove his point. Lol.
Originally posted by FrankPollack1994:
Moral of the story: Temper the enthusiasm if you want to be remotely realistic.

No doubt. I think fans that just got on the Jimmy G bandwagon saw that we hit a homerun last year and supposedly got 5-6 starters. Now they probably think Lynch is a genius. The reality is, most of those guys probably just started because Baalke's picks were just that bad.
  • DaBum
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,035
Originally posted by FrankPollack1994:
Initial reactions on a pick are usually more accurate. If you're going, "who" in an earlier round, it's probably a dud. Never let a pick grow on you.

Out of about 300 picks, about 270 of them will be nothing of note. Try looking at past drafts and see all the junk in them, and try to remember all the hype.

The reality is, you're lucky if ONE of your picks out of 7-11 of them becomes a very good starter.

Just think about this 2000 49ers draft class. Here's my memory of how our fan base thought of them:

Julian Peterson: Great athlete who reminds me of Charles Haley. (Very good but overrated player who wanted ridiculous money. Finesse guy whose production as a pass rusher would come on true blitzes instead of from a 3 point stance, despite playing DE in college. 6 seasons in SF, injured in most of one and mediocre in the last)

Ahmed Plummer: Smart and a great kid. Will be a very good corner for years to come! (Basically a bust. Showed some flashes of good play in 2001 and then was so bad he got benched against the Giants in the playoffs in 02-03 after making Amani Toomer look all-world, Antonio Langham vs. Keyshawn 1998 style. Then the injuries finished off a guy who was never a good starter to begin with).

John Engelberger: I've heard comparisons to Pierce Holt! If so, he's going to be a really solid player. (Holt comparisons laughable. He was an edge guy, not an interior lineman. Weak against the run, could only sack the QB on a fluke play where he just ran straight around the tackle, which he would do maybe 4 times per year. Not a starting-caliber player in the NFL. 5 lousy seasons and done in SF.).

Jason Webster: Another smart corner and a great kid! (Couldn't play the ball. He was actually a better man cover guy than Plummer, but he could be right there and the ball was completed anyway. A few years of mediocre play and done).

Giovanni Carmazzi: Our QBOTF! Smart and Italian like Mariucci! Mobile, good arm, accurate. (Deer in the headlights in preseason. Awful. Not an NFL caliber QB. Didn't make the roster his second year).

Jeff Ulbrich: Super-productive and great football intelligence! (Mediocre starter who lacked athleticism. Injuries finished him off).

John Keith: Big hitter! Might be our new starting SS! (He could hit, sure, but too athletically limited to start long-term. Injuries ended him almost before it even began).

Paul Smith: Might be a sleeper. Can play FB and RB. Special teams ace! (3 years of special teams fodder)

John Milem: 15 sacks! Maybe we found a small school steal! (Total dud who basically never played)

Tim Rattay: If Carmazzi doesn't work out for some reason, he's the QBOTF. College record setter! Walsh traded up in the 7th to get him, so he saw something he liked! (I liked him and wish they would have treated him like he was a first round pick and tried to coach him up, but they never do with late round guys. Needed major work on his pocket presence and decision making, and was injury prone. Few years of backup and brief moments of trying to be a starter, but injuries and inconsistency ended it abruptly).

Brian Jennings: I hear he's a really good long-snapper! (OK, he was a really good long snapper, for whatever that was worth).

And here's the 2001 draft. Remember, it was Bill Walsh doing these:

Andre Carter: Awesome pick. We've got our pass rusher, folks! Son of Rubin Carter. The most technically advanced college DE they've ever seen. He'll be a Pro Bowler. (Disappointment. Lacked the elite speed off the edge or the power to bull rush. Injuries, up and down production to where he had a few good sack total seasons, but was never really a force as a pass rusher in general, and out of SF after 5 seasons).

Jamie Winborn: The next Derrick Brooks! GREAT SPEED and playmaking ability! Future star. (Nolan threw him under the bus like the POS he is, but he was another walking injury. More quick than fast, lousy in coverage, and though a big hitter and really aggressive, not a consistent enough tackler. Out of SF after a little over 4 seasons).

Kevan Barlow: Mike Shanahan said he was the best RB in the draft! (He showed talent in his first 3 seasons in SF, but once given the full-time job in his 4th season, utterly flopped...turned into one of the worst RBs you'll see and was outperformed by UDFA Maurice Hicks, and of course, Frank Gore. Out of SF after 5 seasons, only 3 of them good, when he was splitting carries with Garrison Hearst)

Cedrick Wilson: He has speed! They got a 4.4 range 40-time on him! (Just a run-of-the-mill depth receiver who lacked speed. Good blocker is about the best you can say of him).

Rashad Holman: Don't remember. (Did nothing. 3 years of nickel and done).

Menson Holloway: Don't remember. (Didn't make team).

Alex Lincoln: Don't remember. (Didn't make team).

Eric Johnson: Walsh said he's the next Brent Jones! (Mediocre dumpoff/outlet tight end and a mediocre blocker. Jones was an overrated player himself, but in his peak athletic years, he could get deep in the seems and make some plays down field or after the catch. Johnson was a stiff who did neither).

Moral of the story: Temper the enthusiasm if you want to be remotely realistic.

You my friend are blowing a lot of hot air.

Peterson was a 5 time Pro Bowler and 1 time All-Pro. That's a good pick.

Plummer got destroyed by injuries. It happens and is hardly something you criticize a GM for. He had a 7 INT year in his second year and was selected to the all-rookie team the year before.

Engleberger was a four starter for us. Pretty good result for a 2nd rd pick.

Webster was a 3 year starter as a 2nd rd pick and started 3 more years in Atl after we let him leave.

Ulbrich started a majority of games in 5 seasons and played 9 years in SF. Were you expecting more from a 3rd rd pick?

Rattay was a good backup and got multiple starts in 4 different seasons as a 7th rd pick. That's a great result.

Jennings was our long snapper (actually very important) for 13 freaking years and made a Pro bowl as a 7th rd pick. That's extremely rare FYI.

Carter had 80 sacks in his career. That's a result most would take if given the option at draft time. Not our fault out coaches sucked and he made more than half of them elsewhere.

Winborn couldn't stay healthy but still had a 10 year career.

Barlow was over hyped because he did well as a backup early on. He still amassed nearly 5000 yards as a 49er in 5 seasons. Not bad for a 3rd rd RB who played on terrible teams.

Wilson was a 6th rd pick at WR. Most of those guys end up cut or never seeing the field. Yet, he played 5 seasons here while starting in 19 games.

Eric Johnson started 47 games in 4 years and had a 80 catch season as a 7th rd TE. You're saying that was a bad pick? Lol.




...

You are cherry picking the most rosy things thought of these draft picks when a large majority didn't go that far on the hype train. Most of these picks produced better than average for where they were picked. I have no idea why you went after these drafts. Plenty of other, more recent draft that bombed.
He has great measureables. I like the pick. A small school guy with a lot of upside. Is he a CB or S? Where do you play him?
Hes a CB IMO.

I have to do some more research before i make my ultimate judgment. Just wish we could have done a bit better at CB in a deep class.
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Hes a CB IMO.

I have to do some more research before i make my ultimate judgment. Just wish we could have done a bit better at CB in a deep class.

There are probably better ready to go right now CB's. But the upside is huge with this guy. He has a lot of learning to do. But he could be something. We will see.


love it
Originally posted by DaBum:
Originally posted by FrankPollack1994:
Initial reactions on a pick are usually more accurate. If you're going, "who" in an earlier round, it's probably a dud. Never let a pick grow on you.

Out of about 300 picks, about 270 of them will be nothing of note. Try looking at past drafts and see all the junk in them, and try to remember all the hype.

The reality is, you're lucky if ONE of your picks out of 7-11 of them becomes a very good starter.

Just think about this 2000 49ers draft class. Here's my memory of how our fan base thought of them:

Julian Peterson: Great athlete who reminds me of Charles Haley. (Very good but overrated player who wanted ridiculous money. Finesse guy whose production as a pass rusher would come on true blitzes instead of from a 3 point stance, despite playing DE in college. 6 seasons in SF, injured in most of one and mediocre in the last)

Ahmed Plummer: Smart and a great kid. Will be a very good corner for years to come! (Basically a bust. Showed some flashes of good play in 2001 and then was so bad he got benched against the Giants in the playoffs in 02-03 after making Amani Toomer look all-world, Antonio Langham vs. Keyshawn 1998 style. Then the injuries finished off a guy who was never a good starter to begin with).

John Engelberger: I've heard comparisons to Pierce Holt! If so, he's going to be a really solid player. (Holt comparisons laughable. He was an edge guy, not an interior lineman. Weak against the run, could only sack the QB on a fluke play where he just ran straight around the tackle, which he would do maybe 4 times per year. Not a starting-caliber player in the NFL. 5 lousy seasons and done in SF.).

Jason Webster: Another smart corner and a great kid! (Couldn't play the ball. He was actually a better man cover guy than Plummer, but he could be right there and the ball was completed anyway. A few years of mediocre play and done).

Giovanni Carmazzi: Our QBOTF! Smart and Italian like Mariucci! Mobile, good arm, accurate. (Deer in the headlights in preseason. Awful. Not an NFL caliber QB. Didn't make the roster his second year).

Jeff Ulbrich: Super-productive and great football intelligence! (Mediocre starter who lacked athleticism. Injuries finished him off).

John Keith: Big hitter! Might be our new starting SS! (He could hit, sure, but too athletically limited to start long-term. Injuries ended him almost before it even began).

Paul Smith: Might be a sleeper. Can play FB and RB. Special teams ace! (3 years of special teams fodder)

John Milem: 15 sacks! Maybe we found a small school steal! (Total dud who basically never played)

Tim Rattay: If Carmazzi doesn't work out for some reason, he's the QBOTF. College record setter! Walsh traded up in the 7th to get him, so he saw something he liked! (I liked him and wish they would have treated him like he was a first round pick and tried to coach him up, but they never do with late round guys. Needed major work on his pocket presence and decision making, and was injury prone. Few years of backup and brief moments of trying to be a starter, but injuries and inconsistency ended it abruptly).

Brian Jennings: I hear he's a really good long-snapper! (OK, he was a really good long snapper, for whatever that was worth).

And here's the 2001 draft. Remember, it was Bill Walsh doing these:

Andre Carter: Awesome pick. We've got our pass rusher, folks! Son of Rubin Carter. The most technically advanced college DE they've ever seen. He'll be a Pro Bowler. (Disappointment. Lacked the elite speed off the edge or the power to bull rush. Injuries, up and down production to where he had a few good sack total seasons, but was never really a force as a pass rusher in general, and out of SF after 5 seasons).

Jamie Winborn: The next Derrick Brooks! GREAT SPEED and playmaking ability! Future star. (Nolan threw him under the bus like the POS he is, but he was another walking injury. More quick than fast, lousy in coverage, and though a big hitter and really aggressive, not a consistent enough tackler. Out of SF after a little over 4 seasons).

Kevan Barlow: Mike Shanahan said he was the best RB in the draft! (He showed talent in his first 3 seasons in SF, but once given the full-time job in his 4th season, utterly flopped...turned into one of the worst RBs you'll see and was outperformed by UDFA Maurice Hicks, and of course, Frank Gore. Out of SF after 5 seasons, only 3 of them good, when he was splitting carries with Garrison Hearst)

Cedrick Wilson: He has speed! They got a 4.4 range 40-time on him! (Just a run-of-the-mill depth receiver who lacked speed. Good blocker is about the best you can say of him).

Rashad Holman: Don't remember. (Did nothing. 3 years of nickel and done).

Menson Holloway: Don't remember. (Didn't make team).

Alex Lincoln: Don't remember. (Didn't make team).

Eric Johnson: Walsh said he's the next Brent Jones! (Mediocre dumpoff/outlet tight end and a mediocre blocker. Jones was an overrated player himself, but in his peak athletic years, he could get deep in the seems and make some plays down field or after the catch. Johnson was a stiff who did neither).

Moral of the story: Temper the enthusiasm if you want to be remotely realistic.

You my friend are blowing a lot of hot air.

Peterson was a 5 time Pro Bowler and 1 time All-Pro. That's a good pick.

Plummer got destroyed by injuries. It happens and is hardly something you criticize a GM for. He had a 7 INT year in his second year and was selected to the all-rookie team the year before.

Engleberger was a four starter for us. Pretty good result for a 2nd rd pick.

Webster was a 3 year starter as a 2nd rd pick and started 3 more years in Atl after we let him leave.

Ulbrich started a majority of games in 5 seasons and played 9 years in SF. Were you expecting more from a 3rd rd pick?

Rattay was a good backup and got multiple starts in 4 different seasons as a 7th rd pick. That's a great result.

Jennings was our long snapper (actually very important) for 13 freaking years and made a Pro bowl as a 7th rd pick. That's extremely rare FYI.

Carter had 80 sacks in his career. That's a result most would take if given the option at draft time. Not our fault out coaches sucked and he made more than half of them elsewhere.

Winborn couldn't stay healthy but still had a 10 year career.

Barlow was over hyped because he did well as a backup early on. He still amassed nearly 5000 yards as a 49er in 5 seasons. Not bad for a 3rd rd RB who played on terrible teams.

Wilson was a 6th rd pick at WR. Most of those guys end up cut or never seeing the field. Yet, he played 5 seasons here while starting in 19 games.

Eric Johnson started 47 games in 4 years and had a 80 catch season as a 7th rd TE. You're saying that was a bad pick? Lol.

...

You are cherry picking the most rosy things thought of these draft picks when a large majority didn't go that far on the hype train. Most of these picks produced better than average for where they were picked. I have no idea why you went after these drafts. Plenty of other, more recent draft that bombed.

Peterson made 3 of those Pro Bowls for another franchise. That's not as good a pick as it would seem. He was also overrated in 2002 because of the whole, "he played 6 different positions against Dallas!" garbage.

Plummer was horrid after 2001. And EVERYONE makes the all-rookie team when they start as a rookie. He was atrocious as a rookie. He was getting torched when healthy. The injuries just finished him off for good so he couldn't stick around to suck as long as Mike Rumph.

Engelberger: He was a piss-poor starter. Starting does not mean "good starter." As I said, he was weak vs. the run and an awful pass rusher. When you take a guy high in the 2nd round, you are hoping for better than a guy who is NOT a starting-caliber player.

Webster: Where do you get the idea that when you take 2nd round picks, you're expecting guys who aren't even good enough to where you want them starting for you? Ridiculous.

Ulbrich: What do you mean, "what am I expecting?" I'm pointing out that people on here are being way too optimistic about these picks, as they are every year. Ulbrich was another guy who wasn't good enough to be a solid starter. This is how most picks will be, but here we have people loving all of our picks so far. I doubt they would be loving them if they knew they were going to be backup caliber players who might be poor starters for a few years, then leave for another team.

Carter: Again, he was getting MAJOR hype. The 49ers TRADED UP for him. When you do that, you're expecting a Pro Bowler. You're expecting a star. He wasn't. He was plagued by injuries, he was inconsistent in production, and when he did get the production, he got it as "sacks and nothing else" sort of stuff. He wasn't a pressures guy. He wasn't a guy who teams had to game plan for. And when you take a DE 7th overall and trade up for him, that's what you're hoping for. When you don't get that, you're disappointed.

Winborn: Jesus, you just missed the whole point of my post. It's not about what I'M expecting, it's what other people are expecting. And anyway, being in the league a while as an injury-prone backup for most of it is NOT what people are expecting from a 2nd round pick. But a lot of the time, that's what you end up with. People loved this pick and thought he could be the next Derrick Brooks. He wasn't even starter-caliber.

Barlow: :facepalm: Again, when he came out, people thought he was our RBOTF. They weren't expecting Hearst to successfully return to form from the two years out with the avascular necrosis injury. They talked about how Mike Shanahan called him "the best RB in the draft." THAT is where the hype came from. And then he looked good splitting carries with Hearst. But once he took over, he was AWFUL. Saying he "amassed this number of cumulative yards" is ridiculous. He averaged 3.3 yards per carry over the two years he played here after being given the feature RB role and signing a new contract. That is ungodly awful. He was outperformed by Maurice Hicks, so the "awful teams" excuse carries no water...especially considering he sucked when he went to the Jets, too, and his career ended after that.

Eric Johnson: Again, I'm talking about hype vs. reality. He was a dumpoff guy. I don't expect 7th round picks to make the roster, but people were expecting big things from him because of the Brent Jones comparisons.

Again, the point is that people's optimism about players in draft classes is always really unrealistic. When you look back at this stuff, it all seems so depressingly pointless. Why did we care that much? Virtually none of it ended up mattering...even beyond the, "well, you're usually not going to win the Super Bowl" level. People talked about this stuff like there was something really big and meaningful long term, but there wasn't.

And that's what we're most likely looking at here. We're most likely never going to see Kyle Shanahan/John Lynch win a Super Bowl. Most likely, McGlinchey will be a Ross Verba-type starter. Most likely, Pettis will be nothing of note, like the types of receivers Baalke used to go for in the middle rounds. Most likely, Warner won't even start many games. Most likely, Moore will be a dud.

Originally posted by 49erWill:
^^^ dang real talk is real.

That was impressive
  • dj43
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This thread is about Tarvarius Moore, our current 3rd round pick.

It is NOT about assertions on a draft that happened 16 years ago. If y'all want to talk about that, start a new thread but leave it out of this one.

If that doesn't work for you, other "arrangements" can be made.
  • FL9er
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You guys should really stop letting Jordan Taber/NinerSickness or whoever this PBM is, keep registering to the board.
Originally posted by FL9er:
You guys should really stop letting Jordan Taber/NinerSickness or whoever this PBM is, keep registering to the board.

This
  • dj43
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  • Posts: 29,077
bye
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