2018 Team Information (Needs)

Originally posted by Ark49er:
Biggest difference makers for our team on this list us are Edmunds, James, Fitzpatrick, and Sutton. Sutton might surprise some if he's the pick but I'm not closing the door. A guy that is capable of scoring TDs and scaring the opposition will always be the biggest difference maker.

Good points...and not just because my only mock so far this year has the niners taking Sutton at #9! Shanahan is not going to give away much pre draft, so anything he says should be taken with a grain of salt. Sutton is as close as he'll get to an impact offensive player unless he moves up and takes Barkley...which does not seem likely, or reasonable given his system. If not Sutton, then I believe they go defense with Landry or R Smith.

Edit: some criticized my choice of Sutton and suggested he was not a first round WR. While they could be correct, I now see him jumping into the top five on some boards. What a difference a few weeks make! I love his ability to go after the ball high and take it with authority...particularly in the red zone.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Slow in here so a question for the group! We have seen in the past that one elite player can raise the level of all around him or in his area. Who is the most likely guy in this draft, likely available at #9, who could elevate the play of the offense or the defense? These are the guys, I've seen most often in the 9-15 range, that would fit the niners needs.

LB Edmunds
SS James
LB Smith
FS Fitzpatrick
CB Jackson
WR Sutton
Other?

Wow, I smell a trade back.

LB Edmunds - 19 year old, raw, would play SAM (400-500 snaps). Would have to prove to be the second best ER or coverage LB over Marsh and Attaochu and Foster and M. Smith to see the other 500 snaps and stay on the field.
SS James - Good leader, great upside but skill set and versatility is redundant.
LB Smith - Insurance for Foster and best suited for the WILL. But not a critical need as Brock Coyle proved last year behind a stellar DL.
FS Fitzpatrick - the Solomon Thomas of the secondary. Where does he fit?
CB Jackson - Eric Crocker isn't high on him esp. at 9 for our scheme. 2nd round maybe.
WR Sutton - True ZWR, could be an instant RZ threat while learning from Garcon for a year. But won't be giving you 1,000 snaps.
Landry - similar concept. Probably start out as a 3rd down LEO but has much to learn to grow into an every down LEO.

This may or may not be true, both Ward and Tartt are in the final years of their contracts, Sherman is a bit of an unknown at this point coming off of his injury and is now, officially on the wrong side of 30. Sherman's contract certainly seems manageable moving forward but I suspect they will only choose to pay one of the others, probably Tartt if he plays up to expectations this year. I don't follow college football at all so I don't know anything about these players except what I read during the run up to the draft. Fitzpatrick is a guy that people say can play all over the field which would be seem to be good insurance at all of the backfield positions depending on how things shake out but the chatter is that he probably won't last until 9.

An edge rusher would seem to be the highest priority but aside from Chubb their seems to be a fair amount of back and forth about the other players at that position in this draft. With all of the additions they have made to the line I suspect that won't be a priority need at their first pick but all three tiers of the defense seem like they could use an elite player. I would think corner or LB would be a good bet but who knows. Glad I'm not the one who is going to have to decide

Ok, everyone has ideas but NO ONE knows what kyle and JL are thinking. We think we do , based on the # of players who have been invited for a visit. But truly none of us know how kyle nor JL rates players. Specifically, no one knows what either one of them thinks re:Landry ...is he a difference maker? Could he be THE guy to take this D to the top 5 level? How about Davenport? Could he? Same goes for Minkah, Roquan, Edmunds,...could anyone of them just get the D off " GO" and in one season make them into a top 5 D? Because if anyone of them is in that category, i sure as heck hope they draft him. But what if NONE of those guys is THE man to transform this D?

What if GM/HC just don't see anyone of those top guys remaining at #9 as the ONE guy capable of this D outperforming most of the other Ds we meet this yr ? Both GM and HC are tight lipped which i really like so no way to know, other than visits , who exactly they think will be this guy. But what if they like NONE of them to be the EDGE or Linebacking pass rusher to make our D go? Would they think about dropping back and trading down? Sure this is our last shot at EDGE anytime soon, as we pick much higher here on out. They could take Landry, but don't because although he is best EDGE on the board after Chubb is gone, maybe they dont think he has the "IT" factor. Where then , are we?

Well there is a massive space of 50 players between #9 and #59. And it could very well be that most of those end up starting. So if they just don' like the #9 slot to land us an ELITE impact player, i could see them dropping back, say take a #20 and a #35. That would favor us by 350 points or so, but if someone just had to have #9 for whoever, maybe they might take it. IF you added our pick #124 it would work out pretty much dead on. So, they could give up #9 and get an OG starter, possibly one of the best, Hernandez at #20, a CB at #35, C/OG at #59, LB at #70, and another LB at #74....or change the order somewhat based on BPA that position. That would be a total of 5 potential starters, which we could swing instead of taking a guy at #9 they didn't really feel sold on. it would be a heckuva move, probably get panned by about most fans,,..but then they could finish out the draft with 3 or 4 more picks on RZ RB, RZ WR, and maybe even a late, lateQB, but those probably will end up UDFAs so they double up on LBs or who knows what.

Do i think they will dislike what remains at #9? Depends on who is there. But if not, it is another way to draft, giving up a shot at EDGE and drafting 5 of the other 6 slots currently in need. They would then have to once again have a very good DL ...but with no EDGE, the one player we really need to make all 10 of those other defensive players better. IF they don't see the talent available that way, trading down somewhat like this could be a fall back position which actually works out pretty well.

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Slow in here so a question for the group! We have seen in the past that one elite player can raise the level of all around him or in his area. Who is the most likely guy in this draft, likely available at #9, who could elevate the play of the offense or the defense? These are the guys, I've seen most often in the 9-15 range, that would fit the niners needs.

LB Edmunds
SS James
LB Smith
FS Fitzpatrick
CB Jackson
WR Sutton
Other?

Wow, I smell a trade back.

LB Edmunds - 19 year old, raw, would play SAM (400-500 snaps). Would have to prove to be the second best ER or coverage LB over Marsh and Attaochu and Foster and M. Smith to see the other 500 snaps and stay on the field.
SS James - Good leader, great upside but skill set and versatility is redundant.
LB Smith - Insurance for Foster and best suited for the WILL. But not a critical need as Brock Coyle proved last year behind a stellar DL.
FS Fitzpatrick - the Solomon Thomas of the secondary. Where does he fit?
CB Jackson - Eric Crocker isn't high on him esp. at 9 for our scheme. 2nd round maybe.
WR Sutton - True ZWR, could be an instant RZ threat while learning from Garcon for a year. But won't be giving you 1,000 snaps.
Landry - similar concept. Probably start out as a 3rd down LEO but has much to learn to grow into an every down LEO.

This may or may not be true, both Ward and Tartt are in the final years of their contracts, Sherman is a bit of an unknown at this point coming off of his injury and is now, officially on the wrong side of 30. Sherman's contract certainly seems manageable moving forward but I suspect they will only choose to pay one of the others, probably Tartt if he plays up to expectations this year. I don't follow college football at all so I don't know anything about these players except what I read during the run up to the draft. Fitzpatrick is a guy that people say can play all over the field which would be seem to be good insurance at all of the backfield positions depending on how things shake out but the chatter is that he probably won't last until 9.

An edge rusher would seem to be the highest priority but aside from Chubb their seems to be a fair amount of back and forth about the other players at that position in this draft. With all of the additions they have made to the line I suspect that won't be a priority need at their first pick but all three tiers of the defense seem like they could use an elite player. I would think corner or LB would be a good bet but who knows. Glad I'm not the one who is going to have to decide

Just like Dwight Clark was instrumental in drafting Terrel Owens, I think as long as Lynch is GM, we're going to have a very strong safety corps and a strong defensive backfield. It's his area of expertiese and with Peters helping him, it makes him quite a formidable drafter in drafting DB's. I think you can almost say it's a given that John Lynch will be synonymous with great DB's.

As for edge rusher, Kyle knows how critical the edge rusher is. His father's super bowl defenses had some of the more formidable pass rushers in Neil Smith. I'm confident that ShanaLynch can get an elite pass rusher, or develop a pass rush by comittee with both their backgrounds and skillset.

Originally posted by 49ers81:

This may or may not be true, both Ward and Tartt are in the final years of their contracts, Sherman is a bit of an unknown at this point coming off of his injury and is now, officially on the wrong side of 30. Sherman's contract certainly seems manageable moving forward but I suspect they will only choose to pay one of the others, probably Tartt if he plays up to expectations this year. I don't follow college football at all so I don't know anything about these players except what I read during the run up to the draft. Fitzpatrick is a guy that people say can play all over the field which would be seem to be good insurance at all of the backfield positions depending on how things shake out but the chatter is that he probably won't last until 9.

I like that you're thinking ahead. With the way the team structured Jimmy G's contract, they were preparing to potentially pay Tartt, Brown and others next year. JG only counts $20M next year. We're rolling $43M over already and should be top 3 in cap space again. Tartt is a SS...as you're seeing with the market with free agency, it shouldn't be too hard to resign Tartt. He may be betting on himself to become a top SS in the league but even then, we'll have no issues resigning him after this season.

We also need to remember, guys drop off the cap too. It's likely Staley and his $7.8M drop off and others. We may not honor Armstead's 5th year option. Heck, we could resign Jimmie Ward easily too if we needed more depth.

And as we saw with Colbert and Chancellor James, Lynch and Peters are great at finding S's. The new depth will have a full year to develop.

It's highly unlikely we go S at #9 IMHO.

Originally posted by 49ers81:

An edge rusher would seem to be the highest priority but aside from Chubb their seems to be a fair amount of back and forth about the other players at that position in this draft. With all of the additions they have made to the line I suspect that won't be a priority need at their first pick but all three tiers of the defense seem like they could use an elite player. I would think corner or LB would be a good bet but who knows. Glad I'm not the one who is going to have to decide

If you look at our draft visits, every ER player is slated to go in the first round or second, at worst...and it's our biggest pool of players, followed by OL. That's a strong indication of where our priority is and I'd say all fans would agree with those two being our biggest needs.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49ers81:
This may or may not be true, both Ward and Tartt are in the final years of their contracts, Sherman is a bit of an unknown at this point coming off of his injury and is now, officially on the wrong side of 30. Sherman's contract certainly seems manageable moving forward but I suspect they will only choose to pay one of the others, probably Tartt if he plays up to expectations this year. I don't follow college football at all so I don't know anything about these players except what I read during the run up to the draft. Fitzpatrick is a guy that people say can play all over the field which would be seem to be good insurance at all of the backfield positions depending on how things shake out but the chatter is that he probably won't last until 9.

I like that you're thinking ahead. With the way the team structured Jimmy G's contract, they were preparing to potentially pay Tartt, Brown and others next year. JG only counts $20M next year. We're rolling $43M over already and should be top 3 in cap space again. Tartt is a SS...as you're seeing with the market with free agency, it shouldn't be too hard to resign Tartt. He may be betting on himself to become a top SS in the league but even then, we'll have no issues resigning him after this season.

We also need to remember, guys drop off the cap too. It's likely Staley and his $7.8M drop off and others. We may not honor Armstead's 5th year option. Heck, we could resign Jimmie Ward easily too if we needed more depth.

And as we saw with Colbert and Chancellor James, Lynch and Peters are great at finding S's. The new depth will have a full year to develop.

It's highly unlikely we go S at #9 IMHO.

Originally posted by 49ers81:
An edge rusher would seem to be the highest priority but aside from Chubb their seems to be a fair amount of back and forth about the other players at that position in this draft. With all of the additions they have made to the line I suspect that won't be a priority need at their first pick but all three tiers of the defense seem like they could use an elite player. I would think corner or LB would be a good bet but who knows. Glad I'm not the one who is going to have to decide

If you look at our draft visits, every ER player is slated to go in the first round or second, at worst...and it's our biggest pool of players, followed by OL. That's a strong indication of where our priority is and I'd say all fans would agree with those two being our biggest needs.

I'm hoping the niner brain trust has isolated their guy and can trade back to get him, but that assumes there aren't surprises. MD sees them drafting Smith, Vander Esch or Fitzpatrick in the first round. Vander Esch is the guy that could allow them to trade back, and the other two could well be gone before #9. At this moment, CBS has LB Smith going #4 and DB Fitzpatrick #8. What makes it interesting is CBS has their first QB (Rudolph) falling at #10, which is not going to happen. If four QBs go before the niners pick all three of these guys could be available and they would have a headache of a choice!

My favorite mock at the moment, Walters, has DB Fitzpatrick at 13, LB Van Esch at 17, OG Wynn at 18 and LB R Smith at 19. Those are four guys that could help the niners greatly! After a trade back!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

I'm hoping the niner brain trust has isolated their guy and can trade back to get him, but that assumes there aren't surprises. MD sees them drafting Smith, Vander Esch or Fitzpatrick in the first round. Vander Esch is the guy that could allow them to trade back, and the other two could well be gone before #9. At this moment, CBS has LB Smith going #4 and DB Fitzpatrick #8. What makes it interesting is CBS has their first QB (Rudolph) falling at #10, which is not going to happen. If four QBs go before the niners pick all three of these guys could be available and they would have a headache of a choice!

My favorite mock at the moment, Walters, has DB Fitzpatrick at 13, LB Van Esch at 17, OG Wynn at 18 and LB R Smith at 19. Those are four guys that could help the niners greatly! After a trade back!

Leighton Vander Esch would make a ton of sense on a small trade back. He'd instantly be our MIKE and that would allow Foster or M.Smith stay at WILL which is ideal.

In fact, a trade back makes the most sense if we don't feel Harold Landry isn't a slam dunk at #9.

Draft visits show we've looked at a ton of picks that are expected to go 15-32. Smart.

Would Ealy, Decker, or Demarco Murray be some Free Agents that some people here would like? Brashad Breeland is still available too.

Originally posted by maciasniner:
Would Ealy, Decker, or Demarco Murray be some Free Agents that some people here would like? Brashad Breeland is still available too.

Decker would be interesting if he's healthy because of his understanding of the game. He seems to find openings and may be really special with JG. Would like to know why other team let him go.

Just an FYI, as of Yesterday, Kyle Jusczyck's $2.75M base salary is fully GTD, as is K'Waun Williams $1.25M base salary, and $1.85M of Earl Mitchell's base salary.

Originally posted by AB81Rules:
Just an FYI, as of Yesterday, Kyle Jusczyck's $2.75M base salary is fully GTD, as is K'Waun Williams $1.25M base salary, and $1.85M of Earl Mitchell's base salary.

All worth it as far as I can tell, except maybe Mitchell. It seemed like that kid Day stole some of his thunder as the season wore on. Still, in the over all scheme of things, the price tag could be a lot worse.

As I watch experts and us as fans debate the needs and order of them to me Edge rusher is still top. Generating a good edge rush would change everything on defense the way a great QB changed everything on offense. All of a sudden Buckner and Thomas start getting sacks like crazy, our 3rd down defense percentage gets way better, our secondary looks like all stars, on and on.

The article a few weeks ago said it all No Rush, No Rings

That said one thing I think is cool about Kyle Shanahan and by extension John Lynch and then the rest of the coaches and front office staff is that they have a very clear plan and vision of what they are building and looking for. This organization will succeed or fail based on that plan/vision. We can debate all we want but these guys know exactly what they are after.

Originally posted by Ninersrisin:

As I watch experts and us as fans debate the needs and order of them to me Edge rusher is still top. Generating a good edge rush would change everything on defense the way a great QB changed everything on offense. All of a sudden Buckner and Thomas start getting sacks like crazy, our 3rd down defense percentage gets way better, our secondary looks like all stars, on and on.

The article a few weeks ago said it all No Rush, No Rings

That said one thing I think is cool about Kyle Shanahan and by extension John Lynch and then the rest of the coaches and front office staff is that they have a very clear plan and vision of what they are building and looking for. This organization will succeed or fail based on that plan/vision. We can debate all we want but these guys know exactly what they are after.

Very well stated.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Ninersrisin:
As I watch experts and us as fans debate the needs and order of them to me Edge rusher is still top. Generating a good edge rush would change everything on defense the way a great QB changed everything on offense. All of a sudden Buckner and Thomas start getting sacks like crazy, our 3rd down defense percentage gets way better, our secondary looks like all stars, on and on.

The article a few weeks ago said it all No Rush, No Rings

That said one thing I think is cool about Kyle Shanahan and by extension John Lynch and then the rest of the coaches and front office staff is that they have a very clear plan and vision of what they are building and looking for. This organization will succeed or fail based on that plan/vision. We can debate all we want but these guys know exactly what they are after.

Very well stated.

For once I'm actually hearing our assistant coaches going out there and scouting their players. I don' t know if that even happened during the Baalke era. I think he tried to do it all himself.

Because he felt like no one could possibly have a better opinion than his. Baalke was All Knowing. Didn't you get the memo? He didn't even have to wait until the draft to seal hi picks in an envelope and rush them to the podium. He was that sure he was right all the time. If the Head Coach (let alone a lowly Assistant Coach) had the gall to enter the Throne Room, I mean the GM Office he was told to leave immediately, bowing and scraping the entire time. Little did we all realize the entire time he was just a little man pulling levers behind a giant curtain.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Ninersrisin:
As I watch experts and us as fans debate the needs and order of them to me Edge rusher is still top. Generating a good edge rush would change everything on defense the way a great QB changed everything on offense. All of a sudden Buckner and Thomas start getting sacks like crazy, our 3rd down defense percentage gets way better, our secondary looks like all stars, on and on.

The article a few weeks ago said it all No Rush, No Rings

That said one thing I think is cool about Kyle Shanahan and by extension John Lynch and then the rest of the coaches and front office staff is that they have a very clear plan and vision of what they are building and looking for. This organization will succeed or fail based on that plan/vision. We can debate all we want but these guys know exactly what they are after.

Very well stated.

For once I'm actually hearing our assistant coaches going out there and scouting their players. I don' t know if that even happened during the Baalke era. I think he tried to do it all himself.