Week 2 2017: Thoughts after rewatching the game... | Page 6

Marvin49 · 2017-09-18T09:03:33-07:00

Word of the year: Patience. 1) Hoyer: Last week I defended him. This week I won't. He is what he is though. I was never expecting him to be great, I only expected him to be serviceable. So far he isn't. Its fair to point out the front 7s he's faced and it fair to point out drops...but Man...its been rough. Is it CJ Beathard time? No. Not by a long shot. Its not about giving Hoyer a shot either. Its about not putting the rookie in and causing irreperable harm to his confidence. Beathard needs to stay on the bench FOR HIM and not for anyone else. Might there come a time when he needs to play? Yes. Its not here yet though. 2) Front 7: I need to use this as a disclaimer because I am about to talk about a few front 7 players and I don't want to give the impression I'm unaware of Seattles situation on the O-Line. I'm very aware so good play in the front 7 has to be tempered by who they were playing against. Seattle is a train wreck on the O-Line and have been for years. It makes me wonder how Wilson would function behind an actually competent line. That said.... 3) DeForest Buckner: He didn't get a sack, but that dude was wreaking havoc. 4 QB hits, 5 Pressures, killing in vs run...man. 7th overall pick last year is showing why he was the 7th pick. 4) Aaron Lynch: Needs. To. Play. More. He is EASILY the best pass rusher on the team and when he's out there he provides what they lacked in week 1. Wasn't just the sack either...he was getting hits on Wilson as well. Jumped off the screen a few times. 5) Solomon Thomas: Flashing at times, invisible at others. Still not plaing like an edge rusher but still very raw. Seems to not be doing much for awhile and then flashes uncanny speed and athleticism for a man his size. Also not playing sound and got abused a few times on the read option. Once crashing down hard and another delaying to watch QB and RB ran right past him. Learning curve still in effect. 6) Arik Armstead: Didn't play like Buckner of course, but did flash some there. His sack was interesting because he was essentially unblocked but kinda had to navigate traffic to get there. Looked promising, but if my choices right now are Lynch or Armstead at Leo, I'm putting Lynch in the game. 7) Reuben Foster: Obviously, Reuben didn't play...but thats kinda my point. I just have to wonder if on any of those Wilson scrambles if Reuben would have been spying him and would have had the speed to chase him down. We'll have to wait till their second meeting to see but every time Wilson got one of those first downs I wondered if Reuben would have prevented it. 8) Safety: Good to see Ward in there again and didn't seem to have much rust. I've always like the guy and if he can be a true center fielder. I'm hoping Reid will be fine as I think this spot really fits him, but if not I'm comfortable with Tartt as well. 9) Marquise Goodwin: Catch. The. Ball. QB finally makes a play and you just flat drop the ball. Ugg. It won't go down on the stat sheet and it isn't something people will point out too much, but I did like seeing the small guy just BLOW UP Wagner on the INT return. To me, that shows he does care...which is something if you look at #21 in Dallas. 10) Week 2 of rebuild: Long way to go. Rough two weeks but the schedule will get a bit easier on the offense these next few weeks. I think the TD drought will end on Thurs and they'll put up at least 2 or 3. Total guess. Rams have a nice front 7 themselves, but not nearly what Niners have seen now in back to back weeks. ...and 11) O-Line: I usually do 10 but I make the rules so screw it. I couldn't leave out the O-Line. That was a monster of a job. Tomlinson played very well considering, Staley had a great game, and Trent Brown....wow. Two games into the season and he's allowed NOTHING in the pass rush. No hurries, no hits, no sacks. Its a great thing to get a premiere tackle in the 7th round. 12) One more: I couldn't leave out Carlos either. Line made some holes for him but he is playing well. He's really the ONLY Skill Player doing something right now. Through 2 games he's averaging 7 yards per carry.

Sep 18, 2017 at 1:49 PM

#76

Ensatsu
Veteran
Posts: 9,417

Originally posted by Team49ers:
AJ jenkins, lamichael james

My theory is that those two picks traumatized Baalke so much, he just stopped drafting offense altogether.

Sep 18, 2017 at 1:50 PM

#77

NYniner85
Veteran
Posts: 119,185

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
Until this team actually spends 1st and 2nd round talent on the offense, then I don't see why people are expecting much from this unit.

Seriously....just think about it. Carlos Hyde was a 2nd round pick, and he is basically the only competent offensive weapon we have out there. This is what you get when you had years of Baalke drafting heavy defense, with barebones talent on the other side of the ball.

They got no more excuses next year. Probably going to be a top 10 pick. We have the Saints 2nd round pick next year, and they're not doing too hot either. Hopefully it will also be a high pick.

So two high 2nd round picks. We should draft QB, WR, OL.

I'm with ya...we also gonna have around $115 million in cap space. Resign Hyde and go after OL in FA as well.

#brickbybrick

[ Edited by NYniner85 on Sep 18, 2017 at 1:50 PM ]

Sep 18, 2017 at 1:56 PM

#78

NinerBuff
The Election Dude
Posts: 21,443

Back in the States again... well, this is pretty much exactly what I expected from this team. I think Hoyer will man the ship until the Bye week, then CJ will start. We'll end up with 3-5 wins, and be in the running for Darnold, Rosen, Allen, or Mayfield.

Sep 18, 2017 at 1:59 PM

#79

NYniner85
Veteran
Posts: 119,185

Originally posted by Sourball:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Can we add the amount of holding calls not called on Seattle as well

Do they have different rule books for both teams up there?
I know it sounds like sour grapes but if Wilson was hit by Lynch the way Clark hit Hoyer (and after the whistle stopped the play), Lynch would have been flagged plus a huge fine this week. I guess the crowd noise makes the refs deaf and blind.

it's wild man

Sep 18, 2017 at 2:04 PM

#80

951NINER
Veteran
Posts: 2,906

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 951NINER:
Hoyer had time in the pocket more than a few times. No one gets open.

And when someone was open he couldn't make the throw...your comment was that kittle is slow which isn't true.

There's enough blame to go around with the passing game.

He doesn't look fast to me. But that could just my optics. I also said Kittle can't separate from coverage even when Hoyer had time but I realize Seattle's defense covers well. THL408 eluded to my initial point that I wanted to see more PA to the TE or RB/FB's. Maybe Seattle had that covered too.

Sep 18, 2017 at 2:05 PM

#81

951NINER
Veteran
Posts: 2,906

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 951NINER:
Hoyer had time in the pocket more than a few times. No one gets open.

And when someone was open he couldn't make the throw...your comment was that kittle is slow which isn't true.

There's enough blame to go around with the passing game.

Or WR drop the ball?

Sep 18, 2017 at 2:06 PM

#82

NCommand
Hall of Fame
Posts: 123,365

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Originally posted by SoCold:
Defense gave up 21 first downs. They didn't play as good as the score sounds.

A lot of people on WZ are infatuated with the idea that yards/first downs trump points given up when analyzing a defense.

We gave up 12 points. That is all that really matters.

We tried to warn them... they don't read. Only post incites and vitriol.

[ Edited by NCommand on Sep 18, 2017 at 2:06 PM ]

Sep 18, 2017 at 2:06 PM

#83

Lobo49er
Veteran
Posts: 4,289

Originally posted by NYniner85:

All five of the Seahawks' offensive lineman on the ground at the same time. DeForest Buckner handled two. #49ers
Screenshot from @BaldyNFL. pic.twitter.com/bzdag1DBaC
— Rob Lowder (@Rob_Lowder) September 18, 2017

How about that screenshot lol

Sep 18, 2017 at 2:06 PM

#84

dmax
Veteran
Posts: 22,900

Originally posted by dj43:
For the past 5 months we talked about patience. Now, in only two weeks, all talk of patience is gone.

Welcome to the FAN forum.

exactly...RELAX

Sep 18, 2017 at 2:11 PM

#85

mjonags32
Veteran
Posts: 2,207

Originally posted by dmax:

Originally posted by dj43:
For the past 5 months we talked about patience. Now, in only two weeks, all talk of patience is gone.

Welcome to the FAN forum.

exactly...RELAX

LOL good ol NT

Sep 18, 2017 at 2:12 PM

#86

NCommand
Hall of Fame
Posts: 123,365

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Can we add the amount of holding calls not called on Seattle as well

That ENTIRE drive immediately following us going up 9-6. Literally, every single play there was at least one glaringly obvious hold...Tank, AA, Jones, etc.

Sep 18, 2017 at 2:16 PM

#87

NCommand
Hall of Fame
Posts: 123,365

Originally posted by walker807:
It's good to see that we are largely loosing games based in the play of guys who aren't really in the long term plans. I'd be a lot more worried if Hoyer was carrying the offense and Hyde looked like dung. Hoyer sucking is fine with me since he's not the FQB and is blowing games towards a higher draft pick. The only true players that I was hoping would be on our team when it may get good and have stunk are Goodwin and Kilgore. I could care less about stopgap players sucking like Hoyer, Beatles, Fusco, and Armstrong.

This is actually a great way of looking at things.

Sep 18, 2017 at 2:20 PM

#88

NinerBuff
The Election Dude
Posts: 21,443

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by walker807:
It's good to see that we are largely loosing games based in the play of guys who aren't really in the long term plans. I'd be a lot more worried if Hoyer was carrying the offense and Hyde looked like dung. Hoyer sucking is fine with me since he's not the FQB and is blowing games towards a higher draft pick. The only true players that I was hoping would be on our team when it may get good and have stunk are Goodwin and Kilgore. I could care less about stopgap players sucking like Hoyer, Beatles, Fusco, and Armstrong.

This is actually a great way of looking at things.

Sep 18, 2017 at 2:21 PM

#89

Polkadots
Veteran
Posts: 2,091

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by SoCold:
Defense gave up 21 first downs. They didn't play as good as the score sounds.

A lot of people on WZ are infatuated with the idea that yards/first downs trump points given up when analyzing a defense.

We gave up 12 points. That is all that really matters.

We tried to warn them... they don't read. Only post incites and vitriol.

Come on NC. I have read enough of your posts to know you can be levelheaded, in addition to your knowledge of the game.

You know stats are deceiving. They are easily manipulated in order to support any argument, because they can be taken out of context. The fact is, those 12 points against Seattle can't be used as some sort of justification any more than the following:

- The 49ers gave up 23 points to Carolina (and it should have been more, but I won't play the "what if" game)
- Carolina barely mustered 9 against the Bills
- The Bills allowed the freaking Jets to score 12 points
- Seattle scored 9 points against the Packers
- Said packers gave up 34 to the Falcons

Do you really think the 12 points says anything meaningful? Against a competent offense like the Falcons, based on "stats" above, the 49ers might give up 60 points.

The fact is, you can't really judge this team, even between weeks. The sample size needs to be large enough and they need to play teams across the spectrum. Until then, all you can do is judge the team and players on how they execute their roles, etc. Stats don't mean anything substantial. Not yet. Not even the zero TDs thread I commented in. I can provide stats to support my frustration (two weeks - zero TDs) and you can provide facts to nullify them. We are both right, and I think both wrong, because we are both using an incomplete set of data.

In the end, we are like a plane circling an airfield....in a holding pattern for another 4-6 games - at least

Sep 18, 2017 at 2:22 PM

#90

NCommand
Hall of Fame
Posts: 123,365

Originally posted by Buchy:
Originally posted by SoCold:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by thl408:
49ers defense gave up a 3.9 yards per play average. A few dropped passes by SEA but that 3.9 average is amazing over a 79 play sample.

edit: just remembered SEA had three kneel downs at the end so that average is probably 4.0 or something. Still excellent.

4.2 for the season is tied for 4th best yards per play in the NFL....and thats even with the D wearing down at the end of games.
We have to give opposing OCs some time to scout and expose whatever holes the 49ers have on defense, but this is a very encouraging start. This is also without one of their top players (Foster).

I'm not saying the defense was horrible they played their asses off. Front 7 looked good against that bad OL that was to be expected.
Seattle had the ball inside the 49ers 10 yard line twice and those two drops were huge. Should have been down 14-0 within the first 10 min of the game.
79 plays to 48 is crazy.
Yeah Foster would have been nice trying to stop Wilson from skating around in circles making game winning throws.

The end zone drop was a good break up, if you watch the replay whead hands in there so I count it more a good defensive play than a drop.

Things if you want to argue drops then you should factor in those from Goodwin and our receivers as well.

The past two games we have been blasting fools too...I've seen some alligator arns out there. That attitude of extreme violence appears to be working...receivers hearing footsteps. Some are just early season drops though.