Coaches Film Analysis: 2017 Season

Originally posted by thl408:

jd, check out Kyle's comments at 13:18 where he discusses the OPI call on the 49ers final drive. He talks about the LB and the press CB playing at different levels to prevent the LB from running into the slant. I'm a little confused by what he meant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLnQORy0KY0

This is from earlier in the game. Same Slant-Flat combo versus man coverage:


The orange LB is on the LoS.

-----------------------
Here's the OPI on Garcon. The LB is on different levels with the press CB and runs into Garcon.


Why did Kyle say that the LB should line up at different levels? Shouldn't they be on the same level like the completed pass to Garcon? The two plays are different in that on the Garcon catch, the flat route is from an inline TE, and on the OPI the flat is from the backfield, but what did Kyle mean?

My football knowledge is limited, if I understand Kyle correctly. By the defenders alignment, if they are at the same level then the inside route is usually open, like the catch by Garcon. If they are at different level then the flat will be open because there's a natural pick.

The defender(I think admittedly) on the OPI intentionally line up way up to give Garcon a little shove. Should have been defensive pass interference.

Wrong or right... do I get credit for trying

Originally posted by thl408:

jd, check out Kyle's comments at 13:18 where he discusses the OPI call on the 49ers final drive. He talks about the LB and the press CB playing at different levels to prevent the LB from running into the slant. I'm a little confused by what he meant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLnQORy0KY0

This is from earlier in the game. Same Slant-Flat combo versus man coverage:


The orange LB is on the LoS.

-----------------------
Here's the OPI on Garcon. The LB is on different levels with the press CB and runs into Garcon.


Why did Kyle say that the LB should line up at different levels? Shouldn't they be on the same level like the completed pass to Garcon? The two plays are different in that on the Garcon catch, the flat route is from an inline TE, and on the OPI the flat is from the backfield, but what did Kyle mean?

I wonder if he's talking about situations when the flat comes from the backfield. That makes the slant-flat concept timing change a tick when it's like this. That's a good question though.

My main take away from this is his explanation of how the slant-flat works vs man or zone. The flat is only an option vs man when the LB takes himself out and runs into the slant. And yes, that usually is called DPI. I love how Grant was trying to get him to admit to calling a pick play. "No we teach them to run a slant"

Originally posted by thl408:
jd, check out Kyle's comments at 13:18 where he discusses the OPI call on the 49ers final drive. He talks about the LB and the press CB playing at different levels to prevent the LB from running into the slant. I'm a little confused by what he meant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLnQORy0KY0

This is from earlier in the game. Same Slant-Flat combo versus man coverage:


The orange LB is on the LoS.

-----------------------
Here's the OPI on Garcon. The LB is on different levels with the press CB and runs into Garcon.


Why did Kyle say that the LB should line up at different levels? Shouldn't they be on the same level like the completed pass to Garcon? The two plays are different in that on the Garcon catch, the flat route is from an inline TE, and on the OPI the flat is from the backfield, but what did Kyle mean?

What he was talking about was that the LB be aware of the press and be ready for an in breaking route and making sure that you don't have 2 defenders running on the same level or there's traffic because if not, they'll run into the receiver and as he says, "usually that's going to be a defensive pass interference" and if they do run into the receiver he said, "that's when you're flat gets open, which you hope to move on to that route now".

In the 1st GIF you see how the LB and CB are on different levels, one is underneath the receiver the other is over-the-top.

I remember Mike Singletary talking about that when he was on NFL Network about the importance of communication from the LB's to the DB's when they have players outside so that they're aware of it and know they have to adjust how they play coverage based off the pick plays so they don't run into a receiver or DB in coverage.

Originally posted by Niners816:
I wonder if he's talking about situations when the flat comes from the backfield. That makes the slant-flat concept timing change a tick when it's like this. That's a good question though.

My main take away from this is his explanation of how the slant-flat works vs man or zone. The flat is only an option vs man when the LB takes himself out and runs into the slant. And yes, that usually is called DPI. I love how Grant was trying to get him to admit to calling a pick play. "No we teach them to run a slant"

What I love is that he tried to say, "isn't it supposed to be a throw to the flat against man-coverage?" Shanny - "sit down Beeeeeeeyaaaaach" LOL.

He doesn't understand the slant/flat. It's a key read vs zone but a progression read inside out vs man because your slant route has a much higher chance of success because that receiver can go any direction and if he runs his slant right is going to push the CB back before cutting hard inside. J. Rice was the master of the slant and Walsh/Holmgren/Shanny st/Mariucci tore defenses up with Rice on the slant/flat combo when they'd try and run man-coverage.

With the slant/flat combo vs. Man, one of three things usually happens... 1) the man defender on the flat has to bubble around the slant or the slant defender making the flat wide open (this creates different levels by the defenders) 2) the slant receiver does a stalling technique to freeze his man defender (some call it a foot fire technique) which sets him up to be picked off by the defender flying out to cover the flat, 3) the slant stems his route outside at and angle then sticks hard to the slant creating separation while the flat defender flies underneath... I think #3 happened with that play, but the flat defender seemed to push out receiver!

Still shaking my head about that OPI call. Luckily it wasn't hurtful since it kept us in position for a top 2 pick, but it is still frustrating.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Still shaking my head about that OPI call. Luckily it wasn't hurtful since it kept us in position for a top 2 pick, but it is still frustrating.

9 out of 10 experts agree that it was the right call though, so I wouldn't get too upset about it or at least you should direct that anger towards Shanahan for calling all of these obvious pick plays.

Originally posted by AlexCat49er:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Still shaking my head about that OPI call. Luckily it wasn't hurtful since it kept us in position for a top 2 pick, but it is still frustrating.

9 out of 10 experts agree that it was the right call though, so I wouldn't get too upset about it or at least you should direct that anger towards Shanahan for calling all of these obvious pick plays.

"9 out of 10 experts agree". Good one.

Originally posted by AlexCat49er:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Still shaking my head about that OPI call. Luckily it wasn't hurtful since it kept us in position for a top 2 pick, but it is still frustrating.

9 out of 10 experts agree that it was the right call though, so I wouldn't get too upset about it or at least you should direct that anger towards Shanahan for calling all of these obvious pick plays.

You're wrong......nothing new there.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
What he was talking about was that the LB be aware of the press and be ready for an in breaking route and making sure that you don't have 2 defenders running on the same level or there's traffic because if not, they'll run into the receiver and as he says, "usually that's going to be a defensive pass interference" and if they do run into the receiver he said, "that's when you're flat gets open, which you hope to move on to that route now".

In the 1st GIF you see how the LB and CB are on different levels, one is underneath the receiver the other is over-the-top.

I remember Mike Singletary talking about that when he was on NFL Network about the importance of communication from the LB's to the DB's when they have players outside so that they're aware of it and know they have to adjust how they play coverage based off the pick plays so they don't run into a receiver or DB in coverage.

Gotcha. So he's talking about post snap, play at different levels. That makes sense. I thought Kyle was talking about pre-snap.

Originally posted by AlexCat49er:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Still shaking my head about that OPI call. Luckily it wasn't hurtful since it kept us in position for a top 2 pick, but it is still frustrating.

9 out of 10 experts agree that it was the right call though, so I wouldn't get too upset about it or at least you should direct that anger towards Shanahan for calling all of these obvious pick plays.

I'll take the word of Mike Pereira over your 9 experts, but thanks for trying.

San Francisco was also the victim of a questionable final-drive OPI call in their loss to the Rams a couple weeks ago. Former Vice President of Officiating Mike Pereira told Gary & Larry on Monday afternoon that Sunday's call was far more egregious.

"I've got news for you, if you thought the one a couple weeks ago was bad, this one was horrible," Pereira said. "There's nothing about this that sets up as offensive pass interference, except for some contact, but if you watch him he's working his way upfield, he was looking back toward the quarterback first. The ball was thrown to him. You could make a stronger case for defensive pass interference than you could for offensive pass interference. This whole emphasis on offensive pass interference has obviously gone to far here because I still maintain on the last one you couldn't really tell.

"To use the Troy Aikman language, it was a horrible call at a horrible time. I agree with Tim Ryan, it was awful, and at that point in the game it better just be so obvious but the elements just were not there. If you're gonna call a pick route, call a pick route when they throw to the outside and complete a pass to the receiver whose defender got picked, but it wasn't even a pass to him."

Gary asked Pereira if the 49ers are getting less love from the officials because of their 0-6 record. Pereira dismissed the notion, saying that when officials miss calls like the one on Garcon, their jobs are in jeopardy.

"No because I'm telling you if I'm the official that made that call, I don't know which one it was, but he looks at that play after the game and he goes 'oh my god, I got a downgrade, that's at least one I know I've gotten in the game,' and there's a constant turnover in this league that has to do with performance," Pereira said. "They don't announce it, but there is, and so you don't want to make those calls, and you don't look at color of the jersey, you don't even look at the player. You just want to make the right call, because if you don't make right calls you're going to be out of the playoffs, and maybe out of the league in a two year period, so it really doesn't work that way."

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by AlexCat49er:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Still shaking my head about that OPI call. Luckily it wasn't hurtful since it kept us in position for a top 2 pick, but it is still frustrating.

9 out of 10 experts agree that it was the right call though, so I wouldn't get too upset about it or at least you should direct that anger towards Shanahan for calling all of these obvious pick plays.

I'll take the word of Mike Pereira over your 9 experts, but thanks for trying.

San Francisco was also the victim of a questionable final-drive OPI call in their loss to the Rams a couple weeks ago. Former Vice President of Officiating Mike Pereira told Gary & Larry on Monday afternoon that Sunday's call was far more egregious.
"I've got news for you, if you thought the one a couple weeks ago was bad, this one was horrible," Pereira said. "There's nothing about this that sets up as offensive pass interference, except for some contact, but if you watch him he's working his way upfield, he was looking back toward the quarterback first. The ball was thrown to him. You could make a stronger case for defensive pass interference than you could for offensive pass interference. This whole emphasis on offensive pass interference has obviously gone to far here because I still maintain on the last one you couldn't really tell.
"To use the Troy Aikman language, it was a horrible call at a horrible time. I agree with Tim Ryan, it was awful, and at that point in the game it better just be so obvious but the elements just were not there. If you're gonna call a pick route, call a pick route when they throw to the outside and complete a pass to the receiver whose defender got picked, but it wasn't even a pass to him."
Gary asked Pereira if the 49ers are getting less love from the officials because of their 0-6 record. Pereira dismissed the notion, saying that when officials miss calls like the one on Garcon, their jobs are in jeopardy.
"No because I'm telling you if I'm the official that made that call, I don't know which one it was, but he looks at that play after the game and he goes 'oh my god, I got a downgrade, that's at least one I know I've gotten in the game,' and there's a constant turnover in this league that has to do with performance," Pereira said. "They don't announce it, but there is, and so you don't want to make those calls, and you don't look at color of the jersey, you don't even look at the player. You just want to make the right call, because if you don't make right calls you're going to be out of the playoffs, and maybe out of the league in a two year period, so it really doesn't work that way."

Originally posted by Lobo49er:

"Gary asked Pereira if the 49ers are getting less love from the officials because of their 0-6 record. Pereira dismissed the notion, saying that when officials miss calls like the one on Garcon, their jobs are in jeopardy."

Here's my favorite quote from the former head of officiating.

lol, this AlexCat fella's little troll attempt just got bodied.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by AlexCat49er:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Still shaking my head about that OPI call. Luckily it wasn't hurtful since it kept us in position for a top 2 pick, but it is still frustrating.

9 out of 10 experts agree that it was the right call though, so I wouldn't get too upset about it or at least you should direct that anger towards Shanahan for calling all of these obvious pick plays.

I'll take the word of Mike Pereira over your 9 experts, but thanks for trying.

San Francisco was also the victim of a questionable final-drive OPI call in their loss to the Rams a couple weeks ago. Former Vice President of Officiating Mike Pereira told Gary & Larry on Monday afternoon that Sunday's call was far more egregious.

"I've got news for you, if you thought the one a couple weeks ago was bad, this one was horrible," Pereira said. "There's nothing about this that sets up as offensive pass interference, except for some contact, but if you watch him he's working his way upfield, he was looking back toward the quarterback first. The ball was thrown to him. You could make a stronger case for defensive pass interference than you could for offensive pass interference. This whole emphasis on offensive pass interference has obviously gone to far here because I still maintain on the last one you couldn't really tell.

"To use the Troy Aikman language, it was a horrible call at a horrible time. I agree with Tim Ryan, it was awful, and at that point in the game it better just be so obvious but the elements just were not there. If you're gonna call a pick route, call a pick route when they throw to the outside and complete a pass to the receiver whose defender got picked, but it wasn't even a pass to him."

Gary asked Pereira if the 49ers are getting less love from the officials because of their 0-6 record. Pereira dismissed the notion, saying that when officials miss calls like the one on Garcon, their jobs are in jeopardy.

"No because I'm telling you if I'm the official that made that call, I don't know which one it was, but he looks at that play after the game and he goes 'oh my god, I got a downgrade, that's at least one I know I've gotten in the game,' and there's a constant turnover in this league that has to do with performance," Pereira said. "They don't announce it, but there is, and so you don't want to make those calls, and you don't look at color of the jersey, you don't even look at the player. You just want to make the right call, because if you don't make right calls you're going to be out of the playoffs, and maybe out of the league in a two year period, so it really doesn't work that way."

So you found one of the few "experts" who doesn't see it correctly? Do you understand what 9 out of 10 means?