Injuries - 9-Year Analysis

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Smith said some of these cases have resulted in injuries. https://t.co/o6Tr6qJLHY

— Albert Breer (@AlbertBreer) June 10, 2021

John Lynch rn:

Watch this starting at 9:27. Will Blackmon argues that players aren't resting/recovering enough before coming into the offseason programs.

Originally posted by Heroism:
Watch this starting at 9:27. Will Blackmon argues that players aren't resting/recovering enough before coming into the offseason programs.

Won't click on that guys stuff, but that is my theory also

Originally posted by NinerGM:
But most of them have been at the facility training. I know there's a crew that stays in Nashville but that's the exception. All I've been reading is about how 49ers have had such high participation in the off-season training program. This is why I'm shocking it's happening at such a seemingly high rate. If they're under our training staff's supervision, they shouldn't have such a high frequency of major injuries ... unless those running the program are training on the job. I have zero faith in this crew at this point.

No they haven't...and they can only be in the facilty for a certain amount of time.... yes they have a high number during OTAs. I'm talking about leading up to OTAs.

A lot of these dudes don't live in CA and train elsewhere prior to OTAs.

FWIW Kyle and John replaced the whole SC staff in 2019...like NC has been saying (over and over) all these injuries have happened for the past 7+ yrs, that's with different training staffs and coaching staffs all the same.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Watch this starting at 9:27. Will Blackmon argues that players aren't resting/recovering enough before coming into the offseason programs.

Won't click on that guys stuff, but that is my theory also

Agree, and I think they (scouting and front office) just has to deepen the scouting analysis on rookie and free agent veterans on how they maintain, train, and recover their bodies. I dont think its enough to just track solely their injuries, but also delve into the prospective players knowledge of health and fitness training. With the talent level spread so thinly in the NFL -- I think its worth it to change the scouting emphasis to more of a health and availability focus, just like how they do their due diligence in getting a players 40 time and 3 cone drill time.

To a certain extent -- people don't change -- so it may be better focusing on getting golden helmet athletes who already know how to take care of their bodies, instead of trying to get a very talented player (who is clueless about strength and conditioning) and then try to change him up and *train him up* to take care of his body.

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Agreed.

The CBA doesn't say you can't run OK drills in June or 7 on 7s/ 11 on 11s. The HC states explicitly the "the team isn't in football shape" as KS pointed out in press conferences is important IMHO. My question is if the HC is expecting his guys to be in better shape so they can successfully participate in practices without having a major injury, sounds like there's a disconnect between the HC's expectations the the training staffs/player's readiness for practices. Could it be that we've had 2 not-so-great training staffs over the past 7 years? YES that's 100% possible given the coaching and FO instability we've had in addition to the Baalke player philosophy.

What makes me nervous is who's getting injured now. It's not just the guys with the extensive injury histories or older players (Ford, Samuel, Mostert, Hurd). Skule, Wilson and Moore are super young (2nd and 3rd year guys) and have been for the most part healthy and didn't come to the Niners like other picks who have had a history of issues.

Actually it does...it was banned in 2019 . The CBA has greatly changed what can and can't be done at practice....the players overall have to do a s**t ton on their own to be ready to go for OTAs/training camp.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Smith said some of these cases have resulted in injuries. https://t.co/o6Tr6qJLHY

— Albert Breer (@AlbertBreer) June 10, 2021

John Lynch rn:

I think the strength and conditioning of the players is a shared responsibility between Kyle and John. I think they are going in the right direction in trying to get players without injury issues, however (as per NCs stats) its not having the effect i personally would like at this point. As others said, its going to take time if it was a draft/acquisition issue. I think they can do more, and if Seadderall is a good health model, they should steal ideas from those most healthy teams just like how they steal Shanahans plays.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

The NFL docked the #49ers the last week of their rookie development program for a violation of offseason work rules, per sources. The infraction took place during rookie minicamp.

— Tom Pelissero (@TomPelissero) June 10, 2021

Welp, that blows(more so that we were caught, really). I'm guessing we'll lose a 5th-round pick?

I wonder if there's any correlation between violating NFL practice rules and the injuries.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

The NFL docked the #49ers the last week of their rookie development program for a violation of offseason work rules, per sources. The infraction took place during rookie minicamp.

— Tom Pelissero (@TomPelissero) June 10, 2021

Welp, that blows(more so that we were caught, really). I'm guessing we'll lose a 5th-round pick?

I wonder if there's any correlation between violating NFL practice rules and the injuries.

Paul Allen: "No worries. Do what you gotta do. I'll cover it."

.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
But most of them have been at the facility training. I know there's a crew that stays in Nashville but that's the exception. All I've been reading is about how 49ers have had such high participation in the off-season training program. This is why I'm shocking it's happening at such a seemingly high rate. If they're under our training staff's supervision, they shouldn't have such a high frequency of major injuries ... unless those running the program are training on the job. I have zero faith in this crew at this point.

No they haven't...and they can only be in the facilty for a certain amount of time.... yes they have a high number during OTAs. I'm talking about leading up to OTAs.

A lot of these dudes don't live in CA and train elsewhere prior to OTAs.

FWIW Kyle and John replaced the whole SC staff in 2019...like NC has been saying (over and over) all these injuries have happened for the past 7+ yrs, that's with different training staffs and coaching staffs all the same.

We've just had some really strange OTA injuries, but perhaps it would be a good idea to let the NON MONEYBALL philosophy percolate a while longer to really see the effects of it. We all know the moneyball players brot in for the most part are still around. Richburg just recently retired. But we have others, Dee, for example that haven't.

I fully believe NC's work and insistence on moneyball being a major problem is just that…a major factor in the injury issue. But truly to get a reading on what that change in philosophy will do, will work like evaluating a new draftee…ie, we have to wait about 3 yrs to really know what kind of draft we had.
Same goes for change of FA, draft, and trade philosophy…as in, DO NOT acquire any players with injury hx.

Meantime, freak stuff is going to happen , like getting up from a chair and tearing a meniscus, or having "air" rupture an Achilles.

The other item of consequence, "Do we have the appropriate S& C guys", is probably going to come under greater and greater scrutiny. Before pointing fingers, i will say, that thinking out of the box in an effort to break this damn injury cascade, and hiring hockey S & C guys, sure seems like a good place to start looking. (Nothing we do immediately is going go change injury situation overnite.). Having played all sports plus NCAA soccer and hockey at U of ILL, plus football , baseball, basket ball,(all intramural and not NCAA), I guarantee there are way more high ankles, Achilles tears, hamstring pulls, knee injuries , and groin pulls in football.(Played that since grade school), but also in NCAA soccer, another cleated sport. . In football one wears cleats. Cleats stick Skates don't. So the cleat allows a 90 degree change of direction in a second, but in hockey skates glide, they don't stick. Same goes for high ankle, Achilles tear, hammies, groin pulls, but both hockey and football see ligament and meniscus damage….but way, way , way more in football.

Perhaps we would be better advised to again improve our S & C boys from those with hockey injury knowledge to those with football background. As posted earlier, look for guys in S & C who have written scientific articles on high ankles, or Achilles tears, or hamstrings, or groin pulls or ligament and meniscus damage. Right off the top, i can see overlap with knees…but the others? Personally I would feel more comfortable with S & C snake eaters who have the football background but are doing their own investigational work and theories on how to best prevent these injuries, and once they occurred know the best new ways to treat them..

additionally, freakish injuries just do happen….altho not at OUR rate of injury and # of injured. A number of fans/posters, including me, has mentioned as long as several yrs ago, we are building bodies that joints and ligaments won't support . On this it just has to work thru our system. Maybe in the future a big boned guy can support '"x" number of pounds, but not a pound more on his cartilage and ligaments. Maybe there is a mathematical theorem that comes out. Right now we have nothing anywhere near that but weight training continues to create massive brutes with way too much load on ankles, Achilles, hammies, knees, groins. Somewhere, sometime, someone is going to come out with a max you can build a body up to…but not beyond that.

I've written on this before so won't bore anyone with the details, just the idea. So whatever we try now, it will take time to see it work itself thru the system. IOW, we are all going to let any prophylactic changes percolate thru the system. Switching to S & C guys with background in football, tho…that one might be a bit better if addressed sooner.

hope they have a lot of handicapped parking

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

The NFL docked the #49ers the last week of their rookie development program for a violation of offseason work rules, per sources. The infraction took place during rookie minicamp.

— Tom Pelissero (@TomPelissero) June 10, 2021

Welp, that blows(more so that we were caught, really). I'm guessing we'll lose a 5th-round pick?

I wonder if there's any correlation between violating NFL practice rules and the injuries.

Paul Allen: "No worries. Do what you gotta do. I'll cover it."

"I killed Paul Allen with an axe to the FACE!!!"

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

The NFL docked the #49ers the last week of their rookie development program for a violation of offseason work rules, per sources. The infraction took place during rookie minicamp.

— Tom Pelissero (@TomPelissero) June 10, 2021

Welp, that blows(more so that we were caught, really). I'm guessing we'll lose a 5th-round pick?

I wonder if there's any correlation between violating NFL practice rules and the injuries.

Lose a practice and a fine more than likely…you need to be a multi-time offender to lose a draft pick.