Robert Saleh - Head Coach - Tennessee Titans

Originally posted by Giedi:

Meh. A stunt with either Solomon or Buckner, and normal DLine splits, Ford could get to the QB much faster and that would have been a sack or tipped pass and not a pass thrown. No need to have the disadvantage of having the wide splits to weaken your defense against the run in those kinds run/pass kind of situations. Now, if it was 3rd and long (say 15+ yards) I'd go wide 9 100% of the time. Even better if they perfect those holding techniques by Buckner or Solomon on the Guard & Tackle -- that will free up Ford even faster. But I get where Kocureck/Saleh is coming from - with everybody playing 11 personnel the wide 9 alignment isn't a detriment as it was in the past.

You seem to align with an old school approach to today's passing league. Saleh shares this. The W9 can be very effective against the run too. But let's focus on the pass rush, shutting down the passing game and generating turnovers. Being run defense-centric hasn't really gotten us anywhere.
In fact, the base + snickel lead to breaking historic records of generating turnovers and left a poor secondary out to dry.

Originally posted by NCommand:

You seem to align with an old school approach to today's passing league. Saleh shares this. The W9 can be very effective against the run too. But let's focus on the pass rush, shutting down the passing game and generating turnovers. Being run defense-centric hasn't really gotten us anywhere.
In fact, the base + snickel lead to breaking historic records of generating turnovers and left a poor secondary out to dry.

Let me put it this way, in our 5 super bowl wins - no wide 9, monte Kiffin's defense, no wide 9, Baltimore's defense no wide nine. What we did have in our 5 Lombardi's was a good nickel defense. This last superbowl, The Pat's had basically a nickel defense against the Rams.

The interior DT's in a wide 9 have to deal with bad angles and basically a double team if they are trying to stop the run. The outside tackles just ride their DE's past the RB in a draw play against a wide 9. It's not a sound and balanced defense, and I think it's too predictable. Whereas a more balanced one gap defense like the Kiffen defense with a typical line stunt can disrupt the blocking angles as good or better than a gap penetrating wide 9 scheme can against the run.

Again I have no problem with it as a pass rush alignment, and I dont mind playing wide 9 if we're 2 TD's up and on thier side of the field on first down or 3rd and short. But a good stunt from a 4 man line, with the explosive players we have, I'd want our DLinemen as close the the QB as possible to take advantage of their explosivness.

Putting Ford another yard our two away from the QB diminishes his explosive talents in my opinion. A good hold by the DT on the guard/center can free up Ford and Bosa, and also frustrate the OLinemen, and also confuse their protection calls if the DLine *fake* a stunt and do a straight rush.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

You seem to align with an old school approach to today's passing league. Saleh shares this. The W9 can be very effective against the run too. But let's focus on the pass rush, shutting down the passing game and generating turnovers. Being run defense-centric hasn't really gotten us anywhere.
In fact, the base + snickel lead to breaking historic records of generating turnovers and left a poor secondary out to dry.

Let me put it this way, in our 5 super bowl wins - no wide 9...

Case in point. It's 2019.

The team that ran the least last year still ran 52% of the time. This "alignment" was literally designed to combat the passing game and it just so happens to kill the outside zone running game too. Two things we'll face a ton in the NFCW.

Are you really worried about our run defense in any alignment with the likes of Buckner, Day, Armstead, Jones, Thomas and Taylor/Street inside?

Saleh clearly doesn't understand how Seifert designed this defense philosophically even in a run-centric era. From Elephant/LEO to LDE to the 3T, it was all about getting after the QB and blowing things up in the backfield before anything could get started.

From Bryant Young to Dana Stubblefield to Charles Haley to Ricky Jackson to Chris Doleman to Andre Carter to Tim Harris. 1 gapping. Long lineage of players who lived on the other side of the LOS.

Saleh has put nothing but run defenders in those 3 primary roles including a run-defending SAM up at the LOS for added run defense.

Philosophically, he was/is backwards IMHO. I highly doubt he'd had hired Woods and Kocurek and brought in this personnel on his own. He loves his Big Ends/LEO from that Jacksonville influence. Big defense. SNICKEL.

We're getting back to our roots/philosophy. Sit back and enjoy watching our defense play on the other side of the LOS again.

As for run defense? After 8 weeks, we'll revisit...

Originally posted by Giedi:
Let me put it this way, in our 5 super bowl wins - no wide 9,

That was so long ago lol. Most of the players on the team right now weren't even born the last time the 49ers won a Superbowl. Let that sink in.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Joecool:

So Papa said our D will have 3 LBs stacked. Wonder if it will look like this:



With the speed at our LB spots, I'm liking it.

Yes, I believe it will look like that.

My goodness, that looks exactly like Detroit's 3 stack. Oh my gosh...it IS Detroit. Wonder who the DC was ? Couldn't have been a guy named kocurek , could it?

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Let me put it this way, in our 5 super bowl wins - no wide 9,

That was so long ago lol. Most of the players on the team right now weren't even born the last time the 49ers won a Superbowl. Let that sink in.

Football is still blocking and tackling and throwing and running and as far as I know, the football shape 15 years ago is still the same.

Rules have changed to favor the pass, and protect the passers, but I'm talking about the trenches here, not defensive coverage techniques.

I forgot to add that of course you didn't see the 49ers use wide 9 during their Superbowl championships. The 4-3 wide 9 wasn't even conceived until 1999.

This guy is still an idiot

Originally posted by ninersrule4:

This guy is still an idiot

Still have my suspicions on this guy, this defense is going to make or break his season.

Originally posted by SFVNiner:

Originally posted by ninersrule4:
This guy is still an idiot

Still have my suspicions on this guy, this defense is going to make or break his season.

Not very innovative. Position coach at best.

Originally posted by 60sFan:

Originally posted by SFVNiner:

Originally posted by ninersrule4:

This guy is still an idiot

Still have my suspicions on this guy, this defense is going to make or break his season.

Not very innovative. Position coach at best.

All of the above

As a math guy, it upsets me when a wide 9 is described as better because it is a straight path to the QB and straight paths are shorter than a curved one. Dumbest description ever for this tactic.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:
You seem to align with an old school approach to today's passing league. Saleh shares this. The W9 can be very effective against the run too. But let's focus on the pass rush, shutting down the passing game and generating turnovers. Being run defense-centric hasn't really gotten us anywhere.
In fact, the base + snickel lead to breaking historic records of generating turnovers and left a poor secondary out to dry.

Let me put it this way, in our 5 super bowl wins - no wide 9...

Case in point. It's 2019.

The team that ran the least last year still ran 52% of the time. This "alignment" was literally designed to combat the passing game and it just so happens to kill the outside zone running game too. Two things we'll face a ton in the NFCW.

Are you really worried about our run defense in any alignment with the likes of Buckner, Day, Armstead, Jones, Thomas and Taylor/Street inside?

Saleh clearly doesn't understand how Seifert designed this defense philosophically even in a run-centric era. From Elephant/LEO to LDE to the 3T, it was all about getting after the QB and blowing things up in the backfield before anything could get started.

From Bryant Young to Dana Stubblefield to Charles Haley to Ricky Jackson to Chris Doleman to Andre Carter to Tim Harris. 1 gapping. Long lineage of players who lived on the other side of the LOS.

Saleh has put nothing but run defenders in those 3 primary roles including a run-defending SAM up at the LOS for added run defense.

Philosophically, he was/is backwards IMHO. I highly doubt he'd had hired Woods and Kocurek and brought in this personnel on his own. He loves his Big Ends/LEO from that Jacksonville influence. Big defense. SNICKEL.

We're getting back to our roots/philosophy. Sit back and enjoy watching our defense play on the other side of the LOS again.

As for run defense? After 8 weeks, we'll revisit...

Wide 9 vs the zone run: I'd rather the defense be in a sound run defensive alignment and spill the play outside (I saw Bellicheat have his defense shoot the gaps in the super bowl and it worked against Sean's offense) Versus lining up in a wide 9 and just invite a draw play, trap, quick hitter, or a counter play. I think it's a stupid run defensive formation for the zone run or for any run - for that matter. Having said that, I love the wide 9 for anything related to pass rush. It's a great pass rush alignment for the defense - no doubt about it.

As for Saleh, my pet peeve for the guy is he's predictable and he has pretty low standards for his defensive players. Compare that with Bellicheat who asks his defenders to study not only the playbook but the opposing offensive coordinator's philosophy and background. In addition, Bellicheat really is good at hiding his defenses behind his varied fronts - very similar to what Kyle does by hiding his real offensive play with motions and multiple offensive formations. In other words, Bellicheat is a master at making his defense look like (for example) a cover two, and it's really cover three.

Basically the Seifert/Carroll defense rotates around the Elephant/LEO DE. By standing up or getting in a three point stance, the LEO literally changes the defense in an instant. It has deception built in - in that the LEO can drop and cover the TE or rush the passer, so the OLine protections can get confused. Add in the line stunts between the DE and the DT and it becomes a very deceptive, simple, and formidable defense that's won a lot of super bowls.

I'm hoping Saleh can improve his pass defense reputation, because last year whatever pass defensive reputation he's had, is down the drain. Bosa and Ford should help him recover some of his defensive chops. We shall see.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Wide 9 vs the zone run: I'd rather the defense be in a sound run defensive alignment and spill the play outside (I saw Bellicheat have his defense shoot the gaps in the super bowl and it worked against Sean's offense) Versus lining up in a wide 9 and just invite a draw play, trap, quick hitter, or a counter play.
I think it's a stupid run defensive formation for the zone run or for any run - for that matter. Having said that, I love the wide 9 for anything related to pass rush. It's a great pass rush alignment for the defense - no doubt about it.

The W9 against OZ automatically cuts off the stretch runs by alignment/angle AND you don't need an extra player (SAM) outside the DE to help him.

Yes, Bellicheat will exploit any weakness and keep doing it until it's stopped. IF we are getting beat inside then Saleh should be able to switch back to his big personnel and standard alignments (Big End/LEO at 5/6T, bring SAM up, insert Jones). The question is, can he 1) see it and 2) make the necessary adjustments

Originally posted by Giedi:

As for Saleh, my pet peeve for the guy is he's predictable and he has pretty low standards for his defensive players. Compare that with Bellicheat who asks his defenders to study not only the playbook but the opposing offensive coordinator's philosophy and background. In addition, Bellicheat really is good at hiding his defenses behind his varied fronts - very similar to what Kyle does by hiding his real offensive play with motions and multiple offensive formations. In other words, Bellicheat is a master at making his defense look like (for example) a cover two, and it's really cover three.

Bellicheat is a HOF coach. Let's stop comparing Saleh to him. If Saleh can get this defense into a playoff it would be a minor miracle. LOL.

As to the predictable comment, that's EXACTLY why Kyle brought in Kocurek and Woods. The W9 allows the base and nickel to marry and not be predictable with personnel. Last year, when Mitchell, Nzeocha and Thomas (big LEO) were in the game, what were we in...base or nickel? Any OC can see that's base (run defending personnel) and is going to pass there.

Nothing was more vanilla than Saleh's cover 3. Hence, Woods. More 2 deep safeties, split back, rock-and-roll S's and hopefully, more pattern match...and some damn turnovers!

Originally posted by Giedi:

Basically the Seifert/Carroll defense rotates around the Elephant/LEO DE. By standing up or getting in a three point stance, the LEO literally changes the defense in an instant. It has deception built in - in that the LEO can drop and cover the TE or rush the passer, so the OLine protections can get confused. Add in the line stunts between the DE and the DT and it becomes a very deceptive, simple, and formidable defense that's won a lot of super bowls.

The LEO simply rushes from the weak side. There's nothing disguising about it. He's rushing the passer first, everything else, second. That'll be Ford's job here. He's not dropping into coverage. LOL. In fact, Saleh just talked about Ford yesterday. He said at KC, he would have LB responsibilities which included coverage. He won't have that here. He's a pure rushing DE...like Haley. Hero already showed you how line stunts are awesome with W9. I know you saw that post.

Originally posted by Giedi:

I'm hoping Saleh can improve his pass defense reputation, because last year whatever pass defensive reputation he's had, is down the drain. Bosa and Ford should help him recover some of his defensive chops. We shall see.

Agreed here.

In summary, all the things you want in your descriptions have been addressed from personnel, shift in philosophy, scheme, primary alignments, coaches, game planning, emphasis, etc. In fact, the only thing you do have a real concern with --- run defensive holes --- has yet to happen.

So let's see how it goes. The front 7 will still need some time to adjust and gel with the new alignment, of course.

How many yards a game rushing would you feel comfortable with giving up? Uncomfortable?

We gave up an average of 113 a game last year. Miami gave up 143 with far less talent.